Thinking of giving HIB, TD, and Polio -talk me out of it - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've not done the type of indepth research I should have (and now that he's born I can't) so my default is to do none till I know better.

This is what I am thinking of doing please let me know why you would or would not do this.

dd is 3 so I want to have titres done for her to determine her immunity (she received the 2 and 4 month immunizations on schedule and was breastfed 2.5 yrs)

for ds wait till 2 years then do titre to determine if HIB, TD, and Polio are necessary.

I was thinking of doing them all seperately and with the recommendations from "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You..." in chapter 15

So...give it to me truthfully.

I'm mostly considering doing any at all just because the illnesses are so scary. My kids aren't in day care but we are very busy and in contact with other kids often (sharing toys and what not) that are in preschool and have siblings in school.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#2 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 07:22 AM
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I did Polio and tetnus. We llive on old farm land and that made teh tetnus more important. I didn't do Diptheria. I felt there were too many chances for the kids to get hurt and 'need' a tetnus shot. And I remember when Polio was around.

Didnt have HIB then.

I did ask about some of the others and was surprised to hear they were mostly transferred through bodily fluids. Preschoolers aren't having sex and no one usually drools on someone else, so I didn't see the need.

Everyone has to make the decisions that they're comfortable with.
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#3 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 11:37 AM
 
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For me, I think the first place to begin is with hard numbersJust how many cases of all these vax-diseases do we get here in the united states? (by the way, if you are out of the us I recommend you search your country’s online stats)

This is one of the hardest to find pages at the cdc… the way that I actually found this page was by accident. I had called the CDC to find out about hib cases and I got a doctor and he sent me to this page…

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html


if you download the current issue it gives you the most uptodate stat that the cdc has on the reportable diseases by the way, the stats are at the end of the document. Anyway, I would start there first.


But just to give you an idea:
Here are the hard numbers for 2003. This is what I found for the last week of the year..... this is the total amount of cases reported to the CDC for 2003.....

Total reported cases to the cdc:

Disease Cases

Diptheria 1
Measles 41
Mumps 186
Rubella 7
Congenital rubella 0
Tetanus 14
Hib (under 5)
Sero b-20
Non sero b-80
Unknown b-178


Out of a population of 280 million people in the united states!!

If you check it now, you will see the number of cases for the year as of now (well to be specific as of last Friday..they update the list on Fridays or weekends-from what I can tell).

Remember it is a cumulative list... it is not that many cases per week. It's the year to date.

I will say that critics of the CDC will say that the numbers don't reflect all the cases since sometimes the cases are so mild they don't even get reported or people don't even go to the doctors because the symptoms are so manageable.


by the way, the one shot that I sort of thought a bit more about was tetanus..but we ultimately skipped it especially when I realized that most adults in the population are not 'current' on their tetanus shot. And yet, every minute..right now, someone is cutting, poking, slicing fingers, arms, feet etc.. and yet so few cases of tetanus.

for more on tetanus, this might help.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=318926

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

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#4 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 12:47 PM
 
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Just from the your phrasing "talk me out of it" tells me you don't want to give them shots. Is your mama radar telling you something ? Listen to that strong still voice that is telling you not to do it.

Are you looking for permission NOT to give them shots ? You have mine.
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#5 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 01:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamao'two
for ds wait till 2 years then do titre to determine if HIB, TD, and Polio are necessary.
Okay- you've got good info and links so far- but I'll add my thoughts.

Hib- a 2 year old is no longer at real risk, much less if breastfed. ALSO you weren't vaxed for that- ever worry about it? Probably not.

TD- tetanus is not a disease of the young and healthy- it's a disease of the old with poor circulation AND in any wound that bleeds it's not a worry. Diptheria is nearly unheard of. Too few cases to consider IMO.

Polio- hasn't been a case in the US in decades and the last few dozen cases were CAUSED by the old vax. Add to that that MOST people exposed to polio don't get sick at all and MOST people that get sick just have a mild stomach bug, polio is not the scare that they want you to think it is.

-Angela
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#6 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 01:03 PM
 
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Hib is one of those bacteria you and I carry all the time. Dd might still be immune to it, but unvaxed ds probably already has it...as do you. It's usually a harmless part of your microflora, but it can run amok and turn into meningitis.
Thing is, when you take hib out of the equation, then the bacteria prevnar prevents does the same thing. Then if you get prevnar, Staph bacteria step in and go nuts.
So now they're working on a Staph vax, as well. So it's kind of a great big mess.
(I'll find you links if you want).

Polio no longer exists in the Western world, so I can't imagine a titre check showing any immunity whatsoever.

And I'm not sure, but I think if you get tetanus at all you're in big trouble, so I doubt the unvaxed child will show any immunity to that one either, though dd probably will still have antibodies. I read a while back that the tetanus vax is one of the more effective ones.

Diptheria is similar to polio (basically eradicated), so I doubt unvaxed ds wouls show antibodies, but dd might.

HTH...
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#7 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 01:22 PM
 
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Hmmmm. HIB and TD still have their hold on me. So I can't help you there. Yeah, my thoughts are based on how scary those diseases are. But honestly, if you look at the numbers, your chances of *getting* any of those diseases are less than 1 in a million. Actually, WAY less than 1 in a million. (looks like Diptheria is about 1 in 280 million lol). AND the chances that someone has a severe complication is even less. So take that and compare it to the chance of having a severe reaction to the vaccine.

My thoughts on Polio though? I figure it this way- there haven't been any wild polio in the US since 1979. And there's only been, what, like 1100 cases of paralytic polio in the world this year? Soooooo.... IF there is a reported case of polio in the US THEN I might think about getting ds vaxed for polio (I should add that he's already had 2 doses- I didn't think to question vaxes until after his 1yr appt). What are the chances that the FIRST case of polio in the US in 26 years comes in contact with my ds AND that ds gets seriously ill from it? Not likely. So I've come to peace with taking my chances with that. If that happens, it was meant to be.

Ok, hth

Quote:
Out of a population of 280 million people in the united states!!
I thought in 2003 there were 290 million people in the US. Ok, I know that's not really important, I just thought I'd share That's the number I found at the census bureau site anyways.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#8 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you all!

You are right I don't want to do it but every now and then I have a weak moment. A moment of pure fear and I question my decision.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#9 of 18 Old 09-16-2005, 07:27 PM
 
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Completely normal mama. We are bombarded so badly thinking that vaccines are "the way" to combat disease..the only way. How can it not nag at us when it's in our faces constantly? If a lie is told so many times over, it starts to get believed, sadly.



Quote:
Then if you get prevnar
One note about prevnar....it says in the packet insert that it can cause seizure, I didn't know that. My daughter suffered from a seizure but the hospital blamed it on dtap vs the prevnar because I guess it's more common of a side effect with the dtap that is supposedly the safe and new and improved dtp!

I swear to this day if I had known these shots were not 100 percent safe, I'd not have done it. Of course I have no crystal ball to know what I would have done...but I'm glad I stopped vaccines after my 2 month old daughters seizure!


Sherra
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#10 of 18 Old 09-18-2005, 02:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamao'two
I've not done the type of indepth research I should have (and now that he's born I can't) ...
this isn't true! you have ALL THE TIME YOU WANT.
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#11 of 18 Old 09-18-2005, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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what I mean is that my freetime is severely limited now!

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#12 of 18 Old 11-02-2005, 08:38 PM
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#13 of 18 Old 11-03-2005, 11:02 PM
 
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I heard there are active cases of polio this year in an Amish (obviously unvaxed) community. Anyone else hear of this?
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#14 of 18 Old 11-03-2005, 11:56 PM
 
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Do a search for the polio non-outbreak. Not active cases. People who test positive for the form of polio given in the oral vaccine. No disease. No one is sick.

-Angela
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#15 of 18 Old 11-04-2005, 12:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamao'two
So...give it to me truthfully.

I'm mostly considering doing any at all just because the illnesses are so scary. My kids aren't in day care but we are very busy and in contact with other kids often (sharing toys and what not) that are in preschool and have siblings in school.
The other questions above are actually irrelevant, because if you knew the real information about the illnesses you find so scary the answers to the questions I'v deleted from the quote box would be quite different.

I think the issue you need to deal with are these:

1) What do you really know about the diseases in question?

2) Are you responding from fear or rational thinking and knowledge?

If the answers to 1) is "not much" and 2) is "fear" then you need to suspend the questions, because in order to make a logical decision on whether you want a vaccine or not, you have to know whether there is really a "need" or not.

Personal fear, doesn't qualify as a need. It's a paranoia, that is instilled in us by paediatricians in order to mentally paralyse us from thinking, and to allow them to get us to do things we wouldn't normally do, if our thinking faculties hadn't been hijacked.

Think back to what you already know about breastfeeding and other issues you've experienced and I'm sure you'll understand what I mean.

I'm not sure why pumpkinsmama bumped it, but I think the core issue is to separate the fear from fact, and concentrate on establishing the facts and then answering your own questions to your own satisfaction. Unless you "own" the decision-making process, you aren't really making a "choice".

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#16 of 18 Old 11-04-2005, 01:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
I did Polio and tetnus. We llive on old farm land and that made teh tetnus more important. I didn't do Diptheria. I felt there were too many chances for the kids to get hurt and 'need' a tetnus shot.
I beg to differ on whether or not your children actually did get the Diptheria vaccine b/c Tetanus alone does not exist for children under the age of 7. This is recent information, as a matter of fact the tetanus alone has not been available for quite some time until recently. So, if you can double check their records and see if the record shows DT or Td which would be with diptheria and DTP or DTaP is all Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertusis.
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#17 of 18 Old 11-04-2005, 01:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tracy
Remember it is a cumulative list... it is not that many cases per week. It's the year to date.
I thought the CDC's reports were the past 52 weeks, not year to date. Please correct me if I am wrong because I want to understand those reports correctly.
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#18 of 18 Old 11-04-2005, 01:17 AM
 
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For the OP -- follow that mama radar...

HIB is not recommended for children over the age of 5, why is that? I lived without HIB, you lived without the HIB vaccine, how did we do it? My parents, there parents, none of us got a HIB vaccine and we're alive... The ped tried to scare me into this one - didn't work. So, there are a few strains of a bacteria out there that are not treatable and you will die if you catch them. Well, why aren't adults being vax'd against HIB then? Why aren't older children as well? I don't see the vaccine as being necessary in the life I lead, life is a risk and I'll accept the risk that my children could die, I'm a mother, I accepted that risk the momment I found out I was pregnant.
If I were more mainstream and used day care, I might be presuaded to vax.

DT -- diptheria, not common, very rare, not a risk, treatable. Tetanus, well, I still say depends on where you live, work and play. But for suburban kids not out on farms around horse crap -- na. Tetanus is also treatable if you get it and if you get a wound, you get a Tetanus GG if you are not previously vaccinated.

Polio -- there were some very good threads here on Polio a while back (6 mo or so). I learned a lot. But basically paralytic polio is rare, 95% of those who contract Polio are not paralized for life, they are fine. So, I have decided to take the chance that if and it is a very big if, my dd were to contract Polio there would be a 5% chance she would sustain life long injury from it. Those odds are less than the odds of her getting Guilles Barre from the DT shot.
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