I guess the MMR is now "safe"...but where is the study? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 39 Old 10-21-2005, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstor...name_page.html
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#2 of 39 Old 10-21-2005, 05:48 PM
 
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Let me reassure you your baby's immune system can handle a thousand vaccines given in one shot.
Well, there you have it.

I used to really like Dr. Miriam Stoppard, too.

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#3 of 39 Old 10-21-2005, 06:03 PM
 
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yeah no new study, it was just time for a rash of news stories on how "safe" MMR is.
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#4 of 39 Old 10-21-2005, 11:28 PM
 
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"no credible evidence of harm" is not "proof" that it is safe!!! And that's if there really is no credible evidence of harm, which I don't believe.

I don't know what the thimerosal situation is in the UK, but without thimerosal exposure from other vaccines, I do think that the MMR is a lot safer. It is thimerosal's assault on the immune system in susceptible children that allows the measles virus to take control in the body.

Annalily, nice use of the word "rash." :LOL
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#5 of 39 Old 10-21-2005, 11:53 PM
 
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Dr Vittorio Demicheli, lead author of the report, says: "We conclude that all the major unintended events, such as triggering Crohn's disease or autism, were suspected on the basis of unreliable evidence.
There you are. Now you know that millions of parents worldwide, are stupid and their evidence is unreliable.

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#6 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 12:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Cyneburh
I didn't get this part...

So supposedly giving each vaccine separately is ineffective but giving them all at once is effective?
I was wondering about that myself. And you know what else it made me think? It made me think, "Hmmmm. So now you're admitting that no one is testing these vaccines for efficacy before they're released?" : And everyone is so freakin brainwashed, no one will even realize that's what she just said.
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#7 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 12:42 AM
 
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We must vaccinate our children. Not to do so could seriously damage them.
Could damage them from what

Yeah and whats up with single vaccines not working, :LOL I think they let a bit of info slip on that one. if the singles dont work what makes a three some work.

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If you are a parent who is convinced of MMR's culpability, I doubt if any science will convince you otherwise.
Ummm look in the mirror, shes so convinced they work nothing will change her mind they dont.
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There is now not a single reason to deprive your child of it.
Nice guilt trip, we are depriving our kids
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#8 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 01:16 AM
 
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...single vaccines that have never been shown to be effective.
I don't get that quote either. The single vaccines were tested for efficacy.
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#9 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 01:33 AM
 
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Here's a quote from the research article in question:

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The single component live attenuated vaccines of measles, mumps, and rubella have been licensed in the USA since the 1960s (Plotkin 1999a; Plotkin 1999b; Redd 1999). These single vaccines have been shown to be highly effective at reducing the morbidity and mortality associated with these childhood illnesses.
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#10 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 01:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by insider
I don't get that quote either. The single vaccines were tested for efficacy.
As much as the rest of them, right? So it makes me think she's saying that none of them are properly tested, kwim? I don't believe she *meant* that, but I find it very ironic and humorous that she *said* that. And I find it very disturbing that most people won't even notice that she said it, kwim?
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#11 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 02:03 AM
 
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I downloaded and read the paper. It's really not that good at all. The authors looked at a bunch of research and decided what they liked and didn't like. They excluded so many studies that they didn't even have any research from which they could say the vaccine is effective. The author says he's sad about that but concludes that MMR must be effective because you don't see the diseases around as much as you used to. Now there's some science for ya! In fact, an assinine statement like that is clear grounds to exclude his study.

The same thing happened for vaccine safety - he excluded all the studies that linked MMR with autism, ulcerative colitis, etc. And then he concluded that MMR is therefore safe.

Oh yeah, and one of the authors was a legal consultant for Merck.
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#12 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 02:07 AM
 
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Plummeting, I don't think this woman has any insight into the efficacy testing of MMR. I think it's much more likely she simply has her head up her butt. She wrote a fluff article to praise the glories of MMR and she trampled a few facts in the process. A lot parents opt for the single vaccines so why not say they suck compared to the MMR. I think maybe she just forgot to fact check that piece of ad lib.
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#13 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 02:12 AM
 
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Insider what's the title of the paper that you quoted this from?

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The single component live attenuated vaccines of measles, mumps, and rubella have been licensed in the USA since the 1960s (Plotkin 1999a; Plotkin 1999b; Redd 1999). These single vaccines have been shown to be highly effective at reducing the morbidity and mortality associated with these childhood illnesses.

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#14 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 02:31 AM
 
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There were other just plain logical inconsistencies like this:

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Worried doctors argued that parents were leaving children vulnerable to the diseases which had largely been brought under control
So if they had been brought under control, how are their children vulnerable?

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We must vaccinate our children. Not to do so could seriously damage them
For diseases that had been brought under control?

I suppose they would say that not vaccinating risks them coming back and killing everyone, but that's not what's happened.

Indeed, after alleging that Nature has been forced to publish a retraction in vol 437, 20 October, 2005, page 1079 which reads, in a tiny wee corner:

Quote:
"Contrary to a statement in the Editorial “Responding to uncertainty ” ((Nature 437,1;2005), there is no evidence that lives have been lost as a result of the significant dip in take-up in Britain of the triple vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella."

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#15 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 03:07 AM
 
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Soooooo....

Is this the same study?

http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB004407.htm
Quote:
Authors' conclusions: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with MMR cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.
Tell me how that makes sense.

They say its safe, and then say all studies were inadequate?

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#16 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 03:43 AM
 
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Hmm... I see it is.

http://www.mrw.interscience.wiley.co...407/frame.html

Interesting.
Quote:
We were unable to include a majority of the retrieved studies because a comparable, clearly-defined control group or risk period was not available. The exclusion may be a limitation of our review or may reflect a more fundamental methodological dilemma: how to carry out meaningful studies in the absence of a representative population not exposed to a vaccine that is universally used in public health programmes. Whichever view is chosen, we believe that meaningful inferences from individual studies lacking a non-exposed control group are difficult to make.

We were disappointed by our inability to identify effectiveness studies with population or clinical outcomes. Given the existence of documented elimination of targeted diseases in large population by means of mass immunisation campaigns however, we have no reason to doubt the effectiveness of MMR.

The safety record of MMR is possibly best attested by its almost universal use; its evaluation cannot be divorced from its effectiveness and the importance of the target diseases. As such, MMR remains an important preventive global intervention.

More attention needs to be paid to the design and reporting of safety outcomes in vaccine studies, both pre and postmarketing.
They call that, conclusive proof?

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#17 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 03:46 AM
 
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Oh yeah. Get a load of this:

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We found problematic internal validity in some included studies and the biases present in the studies (selection, performance, attrition, detection and reporting) influenced our confidence in their findings. The most common type of bias was selection bias.

Reasons presented by the papers to justify missing data were analysed. Despite accepting as 'adequate' explanations such as 'non-response to questionnaire' and 'medical records unavailable', not all reports offered adequate explanations for missing data.

External validity of included studies was also low. Descriptions of the study populations, response rates (particularly in non-randomised studies), vaccine content and exposure (all important indicators of generalisability) were poorly and inconsistently reported. In addition, inadequate and inconsistent descriptions of reported outcomes (a well-known problem (Kohl 2001)), limited observation periods (maximum 42 days) and selective reporting of results contributed to our decision not to attempt pooling data by study design.

There are some weaknesses in our review. Age limit of participants, although substantially justified by public health concerns about the effects of vaccination on the developing child, did lead us to exclude some studies only on this basis. Additionally, the methodological quality tools used to assess the ecological, time-series and case-only designs have not to our knowledge been empirically tested. We believe this to have had minimal impact on our findings given the size and nature of the biases present in the design and reporting of the included studies.
So if they had excluded all studies with bias, how many would have been left?

Zero?

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#18 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 05:58 AM
 
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Let me reassure you your baby's immune system can handle a thousand vaccines given in one shot.
One simple question, how can they reassure something like this when it hasn't been done?

I'd HOPE that even pro vaxers would question this. Very odd statement to make with this type of certainty.

This crap is not the science I knew when going through college. This has morphed into craziness and rather cultish. They don't even run studies like they are suppose to on their drugs (and not even sure you can call it a study when they run one on vaccines..because it isn't like any study I read about science wise in college) anymore leaving the integrity crappy and the drug companies wonder why they are getting sued (from their other drugs on this one, not vaccines since they "get out of those" with the slush fund).
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#19 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 06:20 AM
 
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But see, Dr Offit says it's so, so a thousand vaccine at a time must be all right, eh??!!




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#20 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 11:41 AM
 
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I think the MMR shot might be fine for some children but it wasn't safe for my child and no one can convince me otherwise. My son was a normal, healthy child until he turned 1 and got his MMR shot. He went from saying a few words to saying nouthing at all. He had great eye contact and now he avoids all eye contact. He started spinning his toys instead of playing w them. He also spins himself and doesn't play w other kids. Have you guessed it yet? Yep he is being evaluated for Autism. The reaction to the shot was immediate. My dh even noticed it and he agreed it was caused by the shot. He was sick for a week after the shot. I have talked to ds's dr. that agreed autism was most likely going to be the outcome of his eval. next week and he said my story was very, very common. He said he had to add that there has not been any proof that the shot causes autism but he said he couldn't overlook so many parents. My sons therapist has come right out and said that she believes that the shot needs to be researched more and she believes there has to be a link. Sure the shot seems fine for most but what about the few who have reactions. Are they just forgotten about?
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#21 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 11:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by madtan
Sure the shot seems fine for most but what about the few who have reactions. Are they just forgotten about?
There are WAY more than a "few". And yes, by the medical/pharma industry they are largely forgotten or at least well hidden.

It's up to those who know what happened (these damaged kids' parents) to make sure they are not forgotten!

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#22 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 03:39 PM
 
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Sadly that is true, the numbers are astounding. I found the dtap reaction numbers to be laughable when I actually got out there and started talking to parents. When you hear the statistics, you think..oh the chances...then when you actually have it happen to you and meet others it has happened to, you begin to scratch your head and say..hmm...I somehow don't think this is coincidence that I'm meeting this many people who have had the same thing happen.

In my case, they showed how they skew those statistics. My daughter with her seizure was not even going to be counted as a reaction as my ped thought it was impossible even tho the hospital said it was most likely a reaction. I had to report it myself! That is one of the things that made me question things further when I began seeing the stats.
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#23 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 05:56 PM
 
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nak
Haven't read this thread yet, but had to comment on these quotes
Quote:
But that disturbing claim set a hare running. Understandably, frightened parents sent vaccination rates plummeting and gave private practitioners the opportunity to tout single vaccines that have never been shown to be effective.
I'm guessing that's referring to separate m m r shots. Never been shown to be effective? oh, well then I'll just run out and get the combo shot.

Quote:
Measles has very nasty complications including encephalitis, ear infections and pneumonia. One in six children who suffer measles encephalitis will die and up to half of those who survive will be left with brain damage.
yeah, but isn't the rate of encephalitis like 1 in 2,000?

ok- on to read the rest of the thread.

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#24 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by madtan
My son was a normal, healthy child until he turned 1 and got his MMR shot. He went from saying a few words to saying nouthing at all. He had great eye contact and now he avoids all eye contact. He started spinning his toys instead of playing w them.
I'm so sorry to hear your story
So how can "they" say it's just a coincidence? That both just happen at the same time- no connection between the 2? I think it's strange that the MMR shot is KNOWN to be more effective (according to pro vaxers) when given at 18 mos (98%), but they give it regularly at 12 mos (95%).

http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB004407.htm
Quote:
Data collection and analysis: We identified 139 articles possibly satisfying our inclusion criteria and included 31 in the review.
so, 31 out of 139. How is that enough? And they don't ever say how many studies they started with. But definitely less than 1/5th. I think if I did a study, and only included 1/5th of the info, I could definitely have whatever outcome I wanted.

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#25 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 06:29 PM
 
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I don't care about what other people say........I have all the proof I need sitting right here on my lap. He is the sweetest little guy and he has all my support. I will be doing all I can to let others Know what happened to my son and I will try to help things change for the better.
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#26 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 07:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by madtan
I don't care about what other people say........I have all the proof I need sitting right here on my lap. He is the sweetest little guy and he has all my support. I will be doing all I can to let others Know what happened to my son and I will try to help things change for the better.
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was disagreeing with you. Actually, I was TOTALLY agreeing with you. It's so sad that you have to deal with the lies and coverups when it comes to this. I commend you for wanting to spread the truth.
Again, I'm really sorry that this has happened to your family.

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#27 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 07:10 PM
 
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"Public health decisions need to be based on sound evidence. If this principle had been applied in the case of the MMR dispute, we would have avoided all this fuss."
What sound evidence are the vx manufacturers providing that vaxes don't cause harm? Oh yeah, none, because proof is only required if you're concerned about your kids health.

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#28 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 07:15 PM
 
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sorry if you thought I was angry w you. I should have put a couple of emotions in there. I knew what you was saying . I was talking about the statistics and so called studies.
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#29 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 07:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madtan
My son was a normal, healthy child until he turned 1 and got his MMR shot. He went from saying a few words to saying nouthing at all. He had great eye contact and now he avoids all eye contact. He started spinning his toys instead of playing w them. He also spins himself and doesn't play w other kids. Have you guessed it yet? Yep he is being evaluated for Autism.
Did your son get any shots with thimerosal? If so, have you looked into TD-DMPS? I read about it in the book "Evidence of Harm." Here is a website about it. http://www.tddmps.com/
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#30 of 39 Old 10-22-2005, 07:23 PM
 
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Thanks for the information.......I will read the website.
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