Vaccination "waiver" at Dr office? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 34 Old 11-26-2005, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you HAVE to sign the "refused vaccinations" form at the Dr office? I don't mind signing that I don't want vaxes for my son, but I do mind signing a form saying that I am putting him in harm. :
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#2 of 34 Old 11-26-2005, 11:26 PM
 
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You don't HAVE to do anything. The worst they can do is "fire" you, and if they're trying to make you sign a form saying you're putting your child in danger, would that really be a bad thing?

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#3 of 34 Old 11-26-2005, 11:27 PM
 
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legally you dont have to sign such a form, but the dr. office may have a standard procedure requiring you to sign such a form.
i woudl read the form and mark out anything i dont agree with (im always marking out things on pre-drafted forms that dont apply to me).
its always a good idea to completely read before you sign and make sure everythign is accurate. e.g., i dont think its against my child's best interest to refuse to receive some shots....
good luck and let us know what the office says.
rach
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#4 of 34 Old 11-26-2005, 11:28 PM
 
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HELL NO! No way would I sign something that said I was putting my DC in harm.

I 'd ask the Dr if he/she would sign a form stating that he/she was aware of the risks of vaxs and was advising me to put DC in harm.

WTH? I would have blown my top over this one. But I am a redhead with the steriotypical temper.

I would be leary of the potential legal aspects of signing such a form. What if your DS did get sick someday and the Dr. pulled this form out? This could be really bad.

to ya mama.
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#5 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 12:18 AM
 
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No, you do not have to sign it.
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#6 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 12:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CrazyRED
I would be leary of the potential legal aspects of signing such a form. What if your DS did get sick someday and the Dr. pulled this form out? This could be really bad.
Yup! No way would I *ever* sign anything that said that I realized I was putting my child in danger! I wouldn't even edit out that part and sign it. I'd absolutely refuse. What if your child got sick and the doctor tried to call CPS on you? How can you say that you were exercising your rights when they have a signed form stating that you knew what you were doing could harm your child? Honestly, I'd have no problem signing something that said that I had refused vaccinations, if that was all it said. But I would never, never, never sign anything that sounded remotely like I was accepting blame for endangering my child. Never.
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#7 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 12:44 AM
 
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Nope, don't sign.
I find it rather funny that some peds want to make you sign a paper stating you ACKNOWLEDGE you are refusing vaccines...well, DUH!!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#8 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 01:15 AM
 
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I wouldn't sign it. The only reason I can think of that they would want your signature on such a thing is give to CPS. If you have to sign one each time you brought your child to the doctor, CPS might soon have a thick file on you, considering all the vaccines required for our kids.
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#9 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 03:06 AM
 
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I don't do well child visits and if the doc ever asks me about vaxes I tell him that I take care of it elsewhere. The health department does a lot of vaccinating here and that is also where I get my waivers.
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#10 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 10:43 AM
 
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#11 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 10:52 AM
 
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well i have never had to sign a form, at the most at my ds preschool they just said to me "you realize that if there is any illness that would put him in danger we would have to ask you not to bring him?" i was like ya ya ya ya.
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#12 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 11:54 AM
 
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I have modified a standard refusal form that I wouldn't have a problem signing, because it removes the statements that indicate you are knowingly putting your child at risk, I will copy/paste it here. Following that, I will copy/paste a document you can present to your dr and inquire if he would be willing to sign it should you give your consent to the vaccines...

Refusal to Vaccinate
Child’s Name:_________________________________ Child’s ID #________________

Parent’s/Guardian’s Name(s):__________________________________________ ____

My child’s health care provider, has advised me that my child (named above)
should receive the following vaccines:

Recommended Declined
‹ Hepatitis B vaccine . ‹
‹ Diphtheria, Tetanus, acellular Pertussis (DTaP) vaccine ‹
‹ Diphtheria Tetanus (DT or dT) vaccine . ‹
‹ Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccine . ‹
‹ Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine . ‹
‹ Polio vaccine (IPV) . ‹
‹ Measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine . ‹
‹ Varicella (chickenpox) vaccine . ‹
‹ Influenza (flu) vaccine . ‹
‹ Meningococcal vaccine . ‹
‹ Hepatitis A vaccine . ‹
‹ Other . ‹

I have read the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Vaccine Information Sheet(s) explaining the vaccine(s) and the disease(s) they are intended to prevent. I have had the opportunity to discuss these with my child’s health care
provider, who has answered all of my questions to the best of his ability regarding the recommended vaccine(s). I understand the following:

The intended purpose of the recommended vaccine(s)
The risks and benefits of the recommended vaccine(s)
If my child does not receive the vaccine(s), the consequences may include:
-contracting the illness the vaccine should prevent
-transmitting the disease to others
-the need for my child to stay out of daycare of school during disease outbreaks

If my child does receive the vaccine(s), the consequences may include:
-contracting the illness the vaccine should have prevented
-transmitting the disease to others
-suffering from any of the adverse events listed in the package insert and possibly adverse events not yet listed and/or associated with the vaccine.
-chronic illness and/or death


My health care provider, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have all strongly recommended that the vaccine(s) be given based on the info they have been fed by the drug companies producing the vaccines.

I have declined the vaccine(s) recommended for my child, as indicated above, by checking the appropriate box under the column titled “declined.”


I know that I may re-address this issue with my health care provider at any time, and that I may change my mind as personal beliefs are subject to evolve and change over time.

I acknowledge that I have read this document in its entirety and fully understand it.


Parent/Guardian Signature:______________________________ Date: __________


Witness: _____________________________________________Date: __________

************************************************** ******
A Statement by the Physician

I have this day (Day)_____ (Month) _____ (Year) _____

administered this medication to a child named

____________________________________.

I have advised the parents that their child is at minimal statistical risk from the vaccination.

I hereby do agree that should the child at any time suffer or develop any permanent condition deleterious or injurious to his/her health as a result of this treatment then I will pay any and all costs relating to the care and treatment of this child for the rest of its natural life. I further agree that if my earnings are insufficient to meet these costs, I will sell my home, my business and all my material possessions to put the proceeds towards meeting those costs.

Name of the medication

____________________________________________

Method of medication: [ ] oral [ ] injection [ ] other ___________

Manufactured by: __________________________

Lot Number: ___________

_________________________________________
Signature of Physician

_________________________________________
Physician Social Security Number

_________________________________________
Witness (Parent or other)

_________________________________________
Attending Nurse
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#13 of 34 Old 11-27-2005, 02:33 PM
 
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What if your DS did get sick someday and the Dr. pulled this form out? This could be really bad.
No kidding!

I was told by my pediatrician, finally when my child was 2.5yrs old, that I must sign a waiver. It not only said that harm could come to my child due to my "negiligence", but that my "negligence" could also be responsible for harming another child. There was no way in hell I was signing anything like that!

I discussed the form with the pediatrician, calmly, since I expected to be handed such a form at some point. I was surprised it took her this long. Anyway, I said that I was not opposed to signing a form stating that she had recommended vaccination (though we never had a discussion about it, like informing me of the risks), but that I was uncomfortable signing something that labeled me as negligent. She told me that the form could not be altered in any way, that it was designed by her attorneys who said it must read exactly as it does or she would lose her malpractice insurance. I hate liars! She didn't outright say she would fire us, but I think she was going to save that for the next visit, if I refused to sign. It doesn't matter because I fired her after that visit! Not for the waiver, though we would not have gone back after a pediatrician is telling me I'm a negligent parent via the form, but because of some other issues that had to do with her lack of respect because we don't vax.

I already had a homeopathic m.d. ready as a backup and he's great. He fully supports not vaccinating. In fact, none of his staff vaccinate their children, either.

I think you need to be looking for a new pediatrician. If the pediatrician feels that it's right for you to sign such a form, then they are agreeing that you are being negligent by not vaccinating. That is not being supportive, tolerant or respectful of you or your decision.
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#14 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 12:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRED
HELL NO! No way would I sign something that said I was putting my DC in harm.

I 'd ask the Dr if he/she would sign a form stating that he/she was aware of the risks of vaxs and was advising me to put DC in harm.

WTH? I would have blown my top over this one. But I am a redhead with the steriotypical temper.

I would be leary of the potential legal aspects of signing such a form. What if your DS did get sick someday and the Dr. pulled this form out? This could be really bad.

to ya mama.
My sentiments exactly! I would NEVER sign that form, and no you do not have to legally sign the form. The only thing you need to do to protect yourself is to find out what the exemptions are in your state, and comply with them. The doctor's office cannot force you to sign or say anything, period.

Bethany, crunchy Christian mom to Destiny (11) Deanna (9), and Ethan (2)

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#15 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 01:07 AM
 
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I signed a form saying I understood the risks, etc. I don't believe it said anything about negligence. In any case, any form you sign in a doctors office, or in the emergency room, is considered UNDER DURESS.... They develop those forms for CYA, but it really does no such thing. If they did screw up your other teeth, for instance, you could still sue them. AND if they gave you the wrong meds in anesthesia, it doesn't matter that you signed the consent/waiver. It doesn't really waive anything.

I am in a situation where I need specific peds regardless of their opinions about my dss's vax status. I sign in my complete signature rather than my NORMAL signature, to also support my case that signing is under duress. But even this is unnecessary.

mv
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#16 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 04:14 AM
 
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Our pediatrician asked me to bring in the state's waiver since Texas has a conscientious exemption. She said that if her files are audited, she can be fined and be brought before a review board to explain why my dd's chart is incomplete. She also said that without the form, if my daughter gets sick, she could be held responsible. Same thing if I say she was vaccinated elsewhere, needs shot record. I would never sign something I didn't totally agree to be true. I almost always make my own waivers for things anyways. That way they say what I'm willing to sign my name to. You could make your own waiver and get it notarized. A good practice anyway in case you have to go to the ER, you will already have one handy.

Jessica, mama to Emma, 7, Mattie, 5.5 and Lilly, 3 and someone new this Halloween-ish.

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#17 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 04:28 AM
 
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Why do you need a notarized copy of vax waiver in the ER?

I have been to the ER probably 1 bazillion times with Little Bear (ds2) and never needed such a thing....though I have one.

mv
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#18 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 09:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JoyofBirth
She said that if her files are audited, she can be fined and be brought before a review board to explain why my dd's chart is incomplete.
Your ped said this?

And exactly who is going to "audit" her files and render them incomplete . . . and then fine her?

I think your ped is confusing herself with your school district. In fact, I don't think she's confused -- she just thinks the parents won't call her on line of BS.
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#19 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 05:58 PM
 
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I've never been to the ER with a non-vaxed child and have heard many horror stories, so I thought it's a good idea to be prepared. I think my ped said she would be audited by the health dept. We have medicaid, so I don't know if that makes the docs more closely watched or whatever. I don't really care what her reasons are. The way I see it, she has a right to cover her own butt and she's not asking me to sign anything that says I'm a bad parent or know that I'm causing my child harm. I also think it just shows that I'm taking responsibility for my decision.
So when you go to the ER, do you tell them your DC is not vaxed? How do they do with that? Do you get harrassed?

Jessica, mama to Emma, 7, Mattie, 5.5 and Lilly, 3 and someone new this Halloween-ish.

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#20 of 34 Old 11-28-2005, 07:31 PM
 
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actually a few months ago my four year old took a header off his bike and knocked two of his teeth in. We went to the ER and they asked if he had a tetanus vacc, i said no we dont vacc, end of story. Keep in mind, it is not against the law to not vacc your child. Be strong and show strength. I have yet to be questioned and have declined or stated no vaxx several times in my case and my childrens without hassle. I do not have a notarized waiver on hand either, i just get one as needed (only once a year for preschool...actually I dont think I had to provide one this year, so only have needed one once).
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#21 of 34 Old 11-29-2005, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ugh, so I am really screwed since I have signed the form before? CRAP!!!!
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#22 of 34 Old 12-01-2005, 01:17 AM
 
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You are NOT screwed from having signed the form. Repeat: it is under duress.

ER: It depends how they ask the question and who asks for what answer I give.

They asked before a CT scan for goodness sakes! "Are his immunizations current?" They just want to catch you at every possible moment? I mean what are they gonna do, give him the vax right there before the CT?

I only give as much information as absolutely necessary. Regardless of what I say, I have seen that sometimes my records are right and sometimes they are wrong.

My most common way of putting it is: "They are declined at this time."
"So he is not up to date." "He is not vaccinated." "Nothing?" "No, nothing."

I like "We do not vaccinate." However, I have found that this usually prompts more questions than necessary and attempts to argue. If I say "they are declined at this time" it means I am open to vaccinating in the future---which I am...if they prove safety and efficacy, I'm open to it.

The one thing I don't try to do anymore ever is argue with them. I just stay clear and consistent: "Be that as it may, they are declined at this time."

mv
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#23 of 34 Old 12-01-2005, 01:50 AM
 
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"ur pediatrician asked me to bring in the state's waiver since Texas has a conscientious exemption. She said that if her files are audited, she can be fined and be brought before a review board to explain why my dd's chart is incomplete"

My ped is in SW Fort worth and she has never said anything like this. Maybe it is a medicaid thing?
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#24 of 34 Old 12-01-2005, 01:54 AM
 
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I doubt it. Been in TX a long time. Seen lots of people on medicaid, without issue. Been in another state and my child was on medicaid, and it was a non-issue---state also had a waiver. This auditing does happen in schools.

The waiver is nicer to sign than the one in most ped's offices.

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#25 of 34 Old 12-01-2005, 04:40 AM
 
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In any case, any form you sign in a doctors office, or in the emergency room, is considered UNDER DURESS....
I disagree with this. How are you going to prove that after, if this is the case, many visits with an established pediatrician who discussed vaccines with you, the need to sign a waiver in the future, etc. that you agreed to this "under duress"? Most of these forms state outright state that you are agreeing that the benefits/risks of vaccination have been discussed with you and you completely understand.

I can see the argument that agreeing to vaccination or a medical procedure was under the pressure of a doctor or stress from an emergency, but not something you are refusing on your 4th visit to the same doctor.

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They develop those forms for CYA, but it really does no such thing. If they did screw up your other teeth, for instance, you could still sue them. AND if they gave you the wrong meds in anesthesia, it doesn't matter that you signed the consent/waiver. It doesn't really waive anything.
But what we are "waiving" is the recommended vaccination, not waiving a pediatrician's liability. And, yes, I believe this does cover their butts. This is an acknowledgement that the pediatrician recommended vaccination (and that they fully informed you...though that rarely happens, it's not the issue...the issue is they told you to vax). There's no screwing that up - either they recommended it or they didn't - and a parent is not declining under any kind of pressure when the document states the pressure was in the other direction. If your child dies of pertussis after not being vaccinated, when they told you that you should, they don't want you to come back and say they didn't tell you to vaccinate, making them liable for your child's death. No court is going to award you money or take away their license when they have documentation that you declined vaccination after they recommended it. The little clause about the parent being negligent is just to take them further away from any liability by having us put it on ourselves. What problems that can create for us, the ped. doesn't care about.
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#26 of 34 Old 12-13-2005, 12:00 AM
 
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I was presented this form today because I didn't want my child getting 6 vaccinations at once. I have never understood this bc they were so careful to tell me about giving DD only one new food at a time when she was an infant bc she could have a reaction but somehow having 6 viruses/etc, shot into her bloodstream at the same time would not be any cause for concern.

I nicely said "no I am not signing that, sorry" She tried to pass it off as something they always do blah, blah, and I said "is it requried by the law" to which she said no and then I said "yeah well, if its not legally required" and I just trailed off. They gave me the form "to read" and there is no possible way I would sign something that said I put my child's life in danger when I did no such thing.
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#27 of 34 Old 12-13-2005, 05:00 AM
 
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I have never understood this bc they were so careful to tell me about giving DD only one new food at a time
Good point!


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She tried to pass it off as something they always do blah, blah
Same here.

M9, I suggest you start looking for a new doctor and be prepared that if you go back to this one, they will tell you that you must sign the form or find another dr. They probably didn't want to be so pushy at first, hoping you'll just go ahead and vax like they want you to. Just a heads up.
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#28 of 34 Old 12-13-2005, 06:16 AM
 
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M9, I suggest you start looking for a new doctor and be prepared that if you go back to this one, they will tell you that you must sign the form or find another dr.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Although, I know not all peds are the same - most are - and I'd be surprised if they don't mention it again.
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#29 of 34 Old 12-13-2005, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trishshack
I don't do well child visits and if the doc ever asks me about vaxes I tell him that I take care of it elsewhere. The health department does a lot of vaccinating here and that is also where I get my waivers.
One word of caution--if your state starts a vaccine registry they will find you out. This happened to me at a visit when the nurse asked about vaccines. I offhandly told her that we vaccinated elsewhere and she went and checked the registry. :

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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#30 of 34 Old 12-13-2005, 02:51 PM
 
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One word of caution--if your state starts a vaccine registry they will find you out. This happened to me at a visit when the nurse asked about vaccines. I offhandly told her that we vaccinated elsewhere and she went and checked the registry. :
That may not necessarily happen though b/c most state immunization registries are voluntary and require the healthcare provider to actually join the registry. If a ped doesn't participate, they'll be no information regardless. Many peds don't participate b/c of the extra work - I know mine doesn't. So, if your state has voluntary participation and the "elsewhere" you went doesn't participate, then they would not have any vaxes listed under your child's name anyway.

But, you make a good point -- and that's why I have both my children "opted out" of the program. That way their names are not even listed in the registry database for anyone to do any checking.

Immunization registry information is listed on state health department website. Always a good idea to find out if your state has voluntary provider participation or mandatory. For instance, in the City of New York, it is mandatory, but not the rest of the state.
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