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Old 12-13-2005, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The X insists on vaccinating our two children (ages 8 and 5 1/2). I am and always have been opposed (they've never been vaccinated) - but he has every legal right to do so.

He says he will "work" with me on this, but his stance is they WILL be vaccinated. Legal action is out of the question for me as I am very poor and I would very likely lose.
So I am in the negotiating process with him to try to reduce the number and severity of each. Trying to educate him will not work and has never worked.

I have posted before on this list and had it removed but I need some direction and you are the best resource I know of.

First, what products (homeopathic or herbal) are out there that might help detox from vaccinations or prepare the body for them?

Second, where can I look up lot and batch numbers for reactions and deaths?

Third, how do you care for a child that has just been vaccinated? What should I look for? (this just breaks my effing heart). Are fevers reportable adverse reactions to VEARS?

Thanks.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loved
Legal action is out of the question for me as I am very poor and I would very likely lose.
You may be able to receive legal services - being poor doesn't mean there aren't people out there to help at no cost to you. Also, I wouldn't automatically think you would lose - possible, but maybe not.

The children are 5 and 8 . . . and now he wants to vax? All of a sudden he says "it's in their best interest," if I remember correctly right?

Why is that?

And why now?

While you were married, did he ever express to you any concern over their vax status?

Did he ever seem concerned about well visits or routine healthcare?

Did he routinely take the children for well or sick visits?

Did you have an adversarial divorce?

*******************
Your beliefs do count. I would consult with someone before you "work with" him. I can't remember your state. Please post it here and I'll try to find you someone to speak with.

By the way, if you do decide to seek legal advice -- do not agree to anything with your ex. In fact, try to avoid any discussion for a while.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:03 PM
 
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Okay...first I need to know who has legal custody of the children.

Second...I would DEMAND to look at a list of ingredients.

I would DEMAND that X look at ingredients and toxic effects of them.

I would DEMAND that X sign a form stating that the children will not be hurt/injured in any way shape or form.

There HAS to be a way out of this. I just feel it. There WILL be a way out.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:07 PM
 
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No advice. Just I'm sorry you have to go through this.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:35 PM
 
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I'm sorry -- hugs from here too!

I know you don't think you have a chance, but it really doesn't hurt to speak with someone before you make a decision.
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Old 12-13-2005, 08:49 PM
 
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I feel for you. Been there...

This is a good DAN! method.
I'd definately do the titer check and look under your state law to see how many doses of each they need just for school(if they go to public/private school) Such as, if your state only requires 3 doses of DtaP and not 4, forgo the 4th.
A titer check can be used as an immunity in place of a shot as long as its documented in medical records *I believe but might depend on where you live*
Not all states require HIB or Varicella for school entry either.
HIB and Prevnar I think your kids are now too old for.
So what your looking at is the DTaP, MMR, IPV, HepB (HepA for certain states) and Varicella(possibly)

Recommended vaccine schedule:
(By Stephanie Cave, M.D. - DAN! Practitioner and Vaccine Expert)
Birth - Hepatitis B only if mom is Hepatitis B Positive; otherwise, no
vaccine shot.
4 months - Hib, IPV
5 months - DTaP
6 months - Hib, IPV
7 months - DTaP
8 months - Hib
9 months - DTaP
15 months - Measles
17 months - Hib, IPV
18 months - DTaP
24 months - Prevnar (1 dose only)
27 months - Rubella
30 months - Mumps
4 years - Varicella (if not immune already)
4 - 5 years - Hepatitis B series
4 -5 years - DTaP, IPV boosters
4 -5 years - Test titers for MMR and do not give unless not immune.
Immunize only for vaccines found to be negative.

· Ask the doctor to check vaccine titers to check for immunity before giving boosters.

· If you have to vaccinate, give the following:

Vitamin A (cod liver oil) 1 tbsp for three days before and on the day of the shot.
Vitamin C 100 mg twice daily for infants and 300mg twice daily for toddlers for three days before and on the day of the shot.

*Updated school immunization requirements for all states in 2005
http://www.sabin.org/PDF/Immunization_schedule_2005.pdf

julie
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:26 PM
 
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I'm sorry.

Will he listen to either of them, if they don't want it done? They're both vocal, do their wishes matter to him?

If you absolutely can't get out of this, I don't think you'd need the whole shebang, just boosters.

I'd put up a stink about chicken pox, though. Just about any state gives a kid till age 11 to catch it before they push the vax on them. If the state doesn't care, why can't he wait a couple more years for that one?

And check their titres for measles, if they have the immunity, you can pass on that too.

Good luck.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:38 PM
 
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Ask him how it is they, he and you have survived so far.

After all, has he had all the vaccines he wants them to get?

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 12-13-2005, 09:52 PM
 
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The school district should not be made aware of any immunizations, especially if her ex agrees to only certain vaxes.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:54 PM
 
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What a horrible thing.

Fight as much as you possibly can.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:37 AM
 
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I'm so sorry. I wonder, too, why he suddenly wants to push vaccinations on them now. Maybe your hubby might be talking to other people, and not you, the childrens mother, about the health of your kids.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:33 PM
 
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In reading your post it sounds like you are looking for advice for the inevitable vaccination.

I don't want to take this off topic but do you share legal custody? Who has physical custody? Joint legal custody means both of you share legal decisions about, among other things, medical decisions. If this is the case and he decides to change his mind midsteam about something as major as this, you certainly have a case to go for sole legal custody. Joint custody only works when parents agree on most major decisions but I think you've got a right to go to the court and petition for sole legal custody if this is important to you. Regardless of the fact that the courts may not agree with your decision, the fact is it appears it was both of your decisions for 8 years and now he wants to make a major change in something you don't agree to. The burden would be on him to prove why he's now changing his mind.

I know I don't have all the facts in your individual situation but I know this is something that would be worth fighting for in the best interests of the children.

What does your doctor say? Have they been supportive all along? Does x plan on taking children to another doctor to have these vax done? Or is your doctor encouraging x in this decision? If I were a doctor and someone brought in older children who have never been vaxed I'd be a little leary of getting involved (well I'm sure some docs don't have a problem.....)

Sorry if all you wanted was advice on moving forward
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Junitune
I don't want to take this off topic but do you share legal custody? Who has physical custody? Joint legal custody means both of you share legal decisions about, among other things, medical decisions. If this is the case and he decides to change his mind midsteam about something as major as this, you certainly have a case to go for sole legal custody. Joint custody only works when parents agree on most major decisions but I think you've got a right to go to the court and petition for sole legal custody if this is important to you.
She definitely has that right but, honestly, my guess is it would be a waste of time. It's pretty rare to be awarded sole legal custody where there isn't some extreme reason for it - the father being a convicted murderer or an extreme danger to the child, for example (though that's not always enough ).

Still, she should definitely see what her choices are in fighting this. Ideally, with joint legal custody, both of their preferences carry equal weight and usually courts go with the status quo. With something as controversial as this, though, my guess is that a court wouldn't necessarily start from the presumption that they should stick to the status quo.
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply. My computer has been down.

We have joint legal and joint physical custody. It means at any time he can go in anywhere and get them vaccinated. I can not stop him from doing that. And he WILL do that. It is in HIS best interest to appear that he is doing things in thier best interest - our divorce has been very adversarial: he wanted full custody of the children and is still trying to do that. That, in my mind, is why he wants to vaccinate. He has spoken to many people about it: doctors, lawyers, his family (very traditional/conservative/patriarchal family), teachers and school officials. He wants to make me look like the unreasonable one.

Yes, I had thought he was on board about not vaccinating, I thought he was on board about a lot of things.

We have moved several times in the past three years and our children do not have a regular doctor...it's complicated and I won't go into it. Suffice it to say that in the past three months he has taken to a local clinic several times without my knowledge or consent.

Regardless, I will not draw the children into the middle of this. It is NOT thier decision to make. And X would see it as a manipulation, as it would be.

I don't have it in me right now to make this messier than it already is. I know that's not what many of you want to hear and most of you would say you'd fight to bitter end (I did too, what feels like many lifetimes ago), but after all that we have been through I am looking for what is truly the right thing for us all...
I will think & pray more on it.
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:58 PM
 
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i don't see what the point is of vaxing them now. the w.c. vaccine isn't recommended for kids over the age of 6 because the benefits no longer outweigh the risks. they've made it this far without catching any diseases, why bother? (asking him, not you) and all those other kids who've had their vaxes on time, i wonder how many even still have immunity?
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:20 PM
 
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Loved, go and get their titres done before you do anything. Also, have two extra tubes taken, and stored, in case he does something, they do have a reaction and you need a before and after blood sample to help work out what is wrong... if need be. It's a long shot, but I've done two cases where the parents wished they had done this.

And one case where they did do this as an afterthought, and that blood test was crucial in proving that the vaccine caused the damage.

Obviously, he won't much like that. But given that he's throwing mud, this will also be proof that you have been looking after the children as well....

It's a CYA move in many directions.

If you are going to vaccinate, then look at what you can do biochemically to stave off reactions...

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 12-19-2005, 06:16 AM
 
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Can't the kids plead with the father not to do this? It looks like they are old enough and they should know what their father is trying to subject them to.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:00 PM
 
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There is a place online that has a contract for the dr to sign accepting all financial responsibility for any adverse affects or permanant damage (no dr will ever sign it!). You could look that up and insist on it's use as a part of the package...dr won't sign, they don't get vax'd. That should say something.

Orthodox Mama
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The kids can't plead w/thier father about this - that would be manipulative and wrong on my part. I do not want to make this more awful for them.

I can't make X give the contract to the Dr.
If I "get" to be there for the whole thing, than I could give it to the doc - but once again, if that doc won't do it becuase I have insisted on the contract X will take them somewhere else without my knowledge and have it done.

This is why I want to be involved. I know the vaccinations are going to take place - nothing I can say or do will change X's mind - no amount of research will cause him to question the path he is on. It is useless to argue. He just purses his lips and ignores me. Believe me, I have tried. It's heartbreaking.

So what I need to know is how to do this in the "safest" way possible. I know that's an oxymoron. I'm sorry.

Does anyone know where I can get the lot and batch number information?

Also, Montezuma, how do I request extra blood drawn and where will it be stored? Tell me again the rationale for this as well. I know about getting titers done and was planning on that.

Also, does anyonw know what the VEAR's people say are reportable adverse reactions?

Thank you very much!
I am pursueing some legal action as well. But my lawyer is not optimistic and there is no pro bono stuff in my area. We may be chnaging venue as well. It's all a mess!
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:35 PM
 
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Good luck with all this! I know that some people pull crap like this JUST to piss off their ex- I have a feeling that your ex is doing this because he knows it upsets you, more than him truly believing it's the right thing to do.

If you think there's really no way to avoid them getting vaccinated, then I'd suggest that you take them for the vaccines yourself. This way you can limit the number of vaccines they get at one time and be available to give them extra vitamin C and any appropriate homeopathics before and after the vaccine.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19 (in Israel for another school year), Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 12(homeschooled)
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:03 PM
 
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I would ust tell him, OK, and tell him you got them immunized, and not do it. But I am evil like that Although I don't believe that homeopathic vaxes are effective, why not talk him into that route? Then your children will be safe and your x will be happy.
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:05 PM
 
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So sorry you're going through this

I went through a nasty custody suit and I remember the feelings. Good luck with whatever you do. I know there is a lot of good information on these boards about how to protect the kids throughout all of this. Have you seen Dr. TenPenny's videos? She talks about some ways to protect while vaccinating.

I think it might be a good idea to find yourself a good doctor and get the vax done yourself. You might find someone willing to work with you on a gradual schedule and help with reactions, etc. Make sure they are mercury free and get the individual ones versus the combined, etc. I know when I was going through it I searched and searched and found a great MD who works with homeopathy. I remember being scared my ex would vax when dd was with him and the doc told me not to worry, we'd deal with what happened when it happened. If I had decided I had to vax, she would have helped me decide what and when. If you initiate the process maybe your ex would back off....

Anyway, I am sorry for you and the kids. You're doing what you have to do!!
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Old 12-20-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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Personally, I would find a good ped yourself and have the vaxes done on your terms -- one at a time over a longer period. And ask about splitting up the MMR (yes it IS possible in spite of what a lot of people will tell you - Merck is still distributing Measles stand-alone). I would also follow Cave's suggestions for supplementation before/after (some of this was posted above and I think more in her book) and make sure the children do NOT get Tylenol or any other analgesic before/after the vaccinations. Since the children are older, they need far, far fewer shots than a baby going through the vax schedule for the first time. So that's good news. I agree with you quite honestly that your choice seems to be either a) vaccinate on your terms as safe as you can or b) have your X take kids in for all their shots on one or two days. All the battle cries to fight this don't change your legal agreement with your X and your seemingly precarious position of potentially losing custody permanently.
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Old 12-20-2005, 02:17 PM
 
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You are a strong and loving mama. I can tell this and I don't even know you.
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Old 12-24-2005, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies. Just wanted to update you. The clinic that X has been taking them will not vaccinate them!
It seems that because I have made it clear to them that I am opposed and will not sign a consent form at this time, they stated that there would need to be a court order in place for them to be able to vaccinate our children.

It still doesn't mean he can't just take them into any free vaccination clinic and have it done without my knowledge...but at this particular place, they will not do it without a court order or my written consent.

So he's pretty upset by this.
And he will use it against me in his battle for custody.

It's awful and ugly. For now, however, there's a stay in them being innoculated - and for that, I am grateful.
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Old 12-24-2005, 03:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loved
And he will use it against me in his battle for custody.

It's awful and ugly. For now, however, there's a stay in them being innoculated - and for that, I am grateful.
Just to clarify:

1. So, now you know for sure (from the clinic) that Ex has made several attempts to vaccinate the children without your knowledge? If so, this may be used against him, not you.

2. When you say "a stay," do you mean actual court papers were filed?
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No - just a figuerative "stay".

And no, he did not try to vaccinate them. He brought them in for physicals in preparation for vaccinating them. His intent was to make sure they're healthy before he goes ahead and does it. But they won't do it now that they know one parent wants it and the other is opposed.
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Old 12-24-2005, 11:08 PM
 
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If you do go ahead and get the children vaccinated, then I would suggest that you see a Heilkunstler, or another homeopath who can treat for potential vaccine damage (give you remedies in advance of the vaccination to administer immediately afterwards to remove the negative effects). Our practicioner (although our DD is unvaccinated she has treated many vaccine damaged children) has a website at http://www.homeo.ca, and there is also http://www.heilkunst.com which may be useful. HTH!
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Old 12-25-2005, 03:26 AM
 
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NAET (Namburipad's allergy elmination treatment) might help also.

http://www.naet.com/

I've used it to successfully clear allergies. It uses muscle testing. It's non-invasive.

My friend said that she has vials of each vaccine and can do a clearing ? before the shots are administered. Not sure how this works yet though.

I might need to get my kids vaxxed. I don't want to.

DS was vaxxed up to age 6 months.
DD not at all.

I want to travel to Ecuador again this summer and DH insists on getting them shots if they travel there. According to the CDC website, they recommend Hep A, B ( forget that one) and Tetatnus/Diptheria. :

DH is very mainstream. He even wants Polio. He yelled at me in frustration there haven't been any reactions to polio (bull(*&^!) what does he know?!?!? Thankfully, the CDC website doesn't list it as an issue. Polio is an issue right now in some areas of Afghanistan & India, but not Ecuador.

So anyway, I have a friend that practices NAET (I've seen 3 other practioners in my area) and according to her, a treatment beforehand can help.

You can do a search on the Health/Healing board to read more stories (and my experience) with NAET.

10 - boy
5.5 - girl
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