Immune System TOO Good...is this true? - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-24-2006, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The Oprah show presented a "fact" that I've never run across...that the immune can work too well, or be in "overdrive" and stops doing what it's supposed to do.

Is this true? If so, what causes this and how can "immune system overdrive" be prevented?

Anyone have some knowledge on this?

Thanks.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:33 PM
 
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Yup, that's what "autoimmune diseases" are.

Nobody's really sure what causes them- but vaccines are one suspect.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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Examples of autoimmune diseases are cancer, all types of rheumatism, diabetes 1, allergies, asthma, they've now included heart disease, just to name a few.

Autoimmune diseases have certainly gone through the roof since mass vaccination.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:49 PM
 
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I think one of the points he was talking about with that Oprah show (the Dr guy) was that in the 1918 flu those who were young and healthy (good immune systems) were the majority who died, which IS weird.

I had read about that and it is one of the mysteries of the 1918 flu. That is all I know though and haven't done much research about it.

Marilyn,psych RN. Homeschooling mom to Taylor (12) and Lauryn (8)
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:19 AM
 
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The problem I've read of is a "cytokine storm", which (as far as I understand it) has to do with a huge over-production of T-cells in response to an infection. There's some kind of vicious cycle where the more you produce, the more the clustering of T-cells in the infection site (the lungs) encourages the body to produce more T-cells and you end up with massive inflammation and fluid-filled lungs. It sounds like some types of infection are more prone to producing a cytokine storm, and that's what the most problematic flu viruses do. And those with immune systems likely to produce a strong response may be more likely to kick into the vicious cycle of overproduction.

Okay, that's my totally amateur understanding of what happens. If you google cytokine storm you'll probably get a better idea.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:30 AM
 
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ah yes, this may be a new scare tactic.

all of our immune systems are TOO GOOD! Therefore we need vaccines to tone them down a bit.

I can see it now....

wife to my awesome DH, homeschooling, unassisted birthing, food growing, life loving mama to 5 crazy monkeys. :
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marilynmama
I think one of the points he was talking about with that Oprah show (the Dr guy) was that in the 1918 flu those who were young and healthy (good immune systems) were the majority who died, which IS weird.

I had read about that and it is one of the mysteries of the 1918 flu. That is all I know though and haven't done much research about it.
Well the Dr guy was evidently out to confuse the audience. First of all, no immune system is too good, ever. If the immune system is functioning irregular then something is wrong. It is not too good.

Secondly, I would have thought he meant autoimmune diseases. That would be an immune system attacking itself. In other words over protecting the body and not knowing what it foreign and what is self.

But to use that term in the flu of 1918 is totally wrong. The reason (from what I remember reading) why younger people died of the Spanish flu was not because they had a properly or correctly functioning immune system, nor one that worked too well, but because they were the age bracket that was in the military and they were all vaccinated with the typhoid vaccine which eventually proved to be their demise.

That doctor was definitely out to misinform the audience. Wish someone would write to Oprah.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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There is a lot of tosh talked about the 1918 flu. Anyway, lets not go there.

Yes, the supposed problem with the bird flu is the cytokine storm.

But this is interesting. Since elderberry stops the hairs attaching to cells, it might just be a good blocking agent, better than tamiflu and the others that don't work anyway...

http://www.itv.com/news/britain_783168.html

Elderberries could combat bird flu
1.42PM, Wed Jan 18 2006


A extract from black elderberries could be used to combat the bird flu virus, according to research.

A study looked at whether the food supplement Sambucol could combat the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu when added to canine cells in laboratory tests.

The team, from research institute Retroscreen Virology, found that the elderberry-based product was at least 99 per cent effective at reducing the virus in the cells.

But experts warned that many more studies were needed to find out whether the formula was effective in combating H5N1 in humans.

The virulent H5N1 strain of avian flu has already killed more than 80 people, mainly in Asia, after they contracted it from close contact with birds.

But there are fears that the virus could mutate into a form that is easily passed from human to human, leading to a flu pandemic which could potentially kill millions worldwide.

The main medical solutions in case of a pandemic include a vaccine, but this could take up to six months to develop once the strain emerges.

Countries around the world are stockpiling antiviral drugs which can reduce the length and severity of flu symptoms.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 01-25-2006, 12:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
But this is interesting. Since elderberry stops the hairs attaching to cells, it might just be a good blocking agent, better than tamiflu and the others that don't work anyway...
That's cool.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, if you call it autoimmune disease, this makes sense. The doc on the show didn't use the words "autoimmune disorders." He phrased his discussion in such a way to imply that HEALTHY people with no health problems are most susceptible to dying from the avian flu.

Thanks for helping me understand.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:17 PM
 
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I have autoimmune hypothyroidism. If I take immune boosters, such as ecchinacea, my thyroid antibodies have a little wild party and beat the crap out of my throat. I wouldn't classify my immune system as "good" though. More like Lawful Evil. On the other hand, things that facilitate healthy immunity like vit. C and zinc, are totally fine.
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:04 PM
 
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I don't think your immune system can be "too good".
I think this stuff:
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/...ticlekey=25650
is supposed to "come to the rescue" and keep "cytokine storms" from happening.
It's worth noting that no one knows if cytokine storms even exist, and that it's a vague term used to describe a phenomenon that no one knows anything about.
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