I got "let go" by my pediatrician *sigh* - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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Vaccinations > I got "let go" by my pediatrician *sigh*
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 08:43 PM 02-03-2006
Tippytoes, I've found this thread fascinating.

But I have a question.

You went to her because you are scared of ear infections.

What did she recommend for that?

Did you believe her about that?


with regard to Hib, if you read the literature in the late 80's early 90's you will see that they already know its declining, but haven't worked out "why" and it declined across the board, not just in the areas where they did the trials of the early polysaccharide vaccine which... did...NOT... work.

And I have the evidence on that to prove it.

tippytoes26's Avatar tippytoes26 10:18 PM 02-03-2006
she said her ears looked fine that she just has a cold and to not give her any medication (for congestion and whatnot) but to just use a humidifier, nasal drops, and keep trying to feed her (she's not wanting to eat which is scary in a 9lb two month old). and yes, I believed her.

is that question leading somewhere?

Today we took my oldest to have her eyes re-checked (she has a turned eye and bad eyesight in the other). In the same building there is a "family medicine" group. I asked my husband to run in and ask if they accepted our insurance and if they did to ask if they accepted non-vaccinating patients. The receptionist was taken aback because she'd never encountered that one before. She said the doctors were all out of the office but she'd make a call to find out. A couple of minutes later, she reported back that while they do accept patients who are unvaccinated, that they themselves advocate vaccinations.

I guess that's better than getting the boot and really, they probably have to say that just in case we're some government spy from the medical boards or something (tongue in cheek). Or rather (seriously) just to cover their own asses. I'm okay with them disagreeing with my decision.. but I'm NOT okay with getting different treatment or lectured etc.. I want a doctor that respects my right to make that decision.

It's funny because if I would have refused all information advocating vaccinations the other day, the doctor would have been all bent out of shape because I wouldn't even look into it (meaning "her side" of the story). Yet, she, and thousands of others, haven't the slightest idea about why people don't vaccinate. They haven't even tried to find out what the hype is about. Guess it's easier to be brainwashed.

The funny part is that I would LOVE for someone to say something to convince me that I should vaccinate. I mean seriously, wouldn't that be easy? To just do what you've been told is right all your life? gosh.. if it were that simple.

Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 10:47 PM 02-03-2006
No, but it would have lead somewhere if she had prescribed you antibiotics and said nothing of any usefullness
tippytoes26's Avatar tippytoes26 11:25 PM 02-03-2006
Curious.. if she had prescribed antibiotics for a sever ear infection would that be a problem?
phathui5's Avatar phathui5 11:41 PM 02-03-2006
You're right. However frustrating, it is all for the best.
KatSG's Avatar KatSG 12:19 AM 02-04-2006
Tipppytoes, sorry you had such a frustrating experience. When we asked our ped (who we saw once) if she would be willing to break up vaxes so our dd wouldn't get more than one at once she looked at me like I was crazy and wondered why we would want to do that since it meant more needle pricks for the baby in the long run. Then they sent us downstairs to the lab to get her 2nd PKU. I asked if the did sucralose like they had in the hospital (I didn't know about nursing through this at the time), and they claimed to never have heard of this and my dd screamed for an hour. Whatever.

And about Hib: I'm pretty convinced that the vast majority of cases are never reported because they're so mild. My dd had it when she something like 5 mos old (can't remember now) and it all started when my dh came home with pink eye. I had scratchy eyes, and could remember having similar symptoms as a kid. Dd did get pretty sick and had gooky eyes, which they treated with AB drops, and then it was over. If she hadn't had the goopy eyes I never would have gone to the doctor. And now, I'd probably just put breast milk in her eyes all day long. So it's not a horrible disease and there is treatment.

And still, our nurse practioner, who supports our choice not to vax at all, still wants her to get the Hib shot. Sigh...I just try to remember that he really loves my dd and worries. He's human, if not logical.

Also, I appreciate why you're concerned about your dd's ears. Many dr's don't prescribe ABs for ear infections anymore. You may consider getting one of those "look in the ear thingies" (can't remember what they're called) and keep an eye on her ears yourself. If you get to the point where an infection is bothering you then you can take her to the doctor.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 12:31 AM 02-04-2006
Originally Posted by tippytoes26
Curious.. if she had prescribed antibiotics for a sever ear infection would that be a problem?

Given that antibiotics for ear infections result in the patient fully coming right in seven days, whereas without antibiotics it takes a week.

so on this occasion, she might have known something even if she didn't want to tell you that contrary to common myth, antibiotics for ear infections don't work, and all they really do do, is to destroy gut flora and create potentially more serious deep seated problems.

As Kat SG says, many doctors won't prescribe them now. For decades they did though. What annoys me is that the doctors don't educate their patients as to why they used to prescribe them for ear infections all the time, without questions. Again, IMO, to do that is sort of like an own-goal.

Telling you that, might destroy the great myths that these drugs can do no wrong.
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 01:08 AM 02-04-2006
On measles:

An amusing bit from a very unamusing book.

There was an American physician and psychiatrist named Leon Goldensohn who spent some time treating and interviewing the Nazi prisoners during the Nuremberg trials. A book of his interview notes has recently been published and most of it is depressing and chilling to read.

However, he was very interested in the family background of his "patients" and asked them lots of questions about their childhoods. Several times he comments that the subjects had "the normal childhood illnesses, measles, etc." Never once does this physician express amazement that so many people had survived measles unscathed. Since many of these creeps were born before 1900 it is just amazing!

What I find most interesting is that a medical doctor considered measles a minor childhood illness in 1946. Nowadays it is considered a terrifying plague. What a transformation.

If anyone is crazy enough to want to actually read this tome:
The Nuremberg Interviews: An American Psychiatrist's Conversations with the Defendants and Witnesses by Leon Goldensohn. Edited and With an Introduction by Robert Gellately. Alfred A. Knopf, 2004, NY

Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 02:28 AM 02-04-2006
No, I'll take your word for it Nana
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 12:44 PM 02-04-2006
I always knew you were a sensible woman MT!
crazy_eights's Avatar crazy_eights 02:09 AM 02-05-2006
I have read info (and I forget where, but it was a site that did NOT promote vax) that said there is evidence to suggest that vaccination has caused the wild-type of measles to be more virrulent? When everyone got it, the wild type was more benign, but now we don't get the benign type, but a more virrulent form that has evolved. At least that is how I remember it. MT, maybe you have more info on this?
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 03:10 AM 02-05-2006
No, that's not correct. What has happened is that before the vaccine, children rarely got measles before 18 months because maternal antibodies were very high as a result of good solid natural immunity. Now, maternal antibodies are so low from a vaccine that simply doesn't prime the immune system like natural infection does, that babies are at risk of getting getting measles at a younger and younger age, because maternal antibodies no longer last 15 - 18 months.

The problem with that is that the peripheral blood leukocytes of babies have an enhanced susceptibility to measles virus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum at an age when naturally, they shouldn't be coming in contact with measles at all.

So if there is even the slightest nutritional or immunological problem these babies are at increased danger from the ordinary same old measles virus, because of the difference between the immune system of a baby and a toddler.
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 03:13 AM 02-05-2006
The other problem is that measles in adolescents or adults is far more dangerous that the typical age pre vaccine which was between the ages of 3 years and 9 years of age. The answer of the medical profession is cradle to coffin boosters.

Money for Jam.
crazy_eights's Avatar crazy_eights 03:15 AM 02-05-2006
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
The other problem is that measles in adolescents or adults is far more dangerous that the typical age pre vaccine which was between the ages of 3 years and 9 years of age. The answer of the medical profession is cradle to coffin boosters.
Kinda' what I thought. And what they are now doing with chicken pox.
CalebsMama05's Avatar CalebsMama05 12:48 PM 02-05-2006
Originally Posted by LongIsland

Here's another misleading statement by the CDC on their website regarding pertussis deaths. We had a troll recently quote the CDC statement (below) and claim that the DTP vax saved 9,000 lives a year:

Before pertussis immunizations were available, nearly all children developed whooping cough. In the U.S., prior to pertussis immunization, between 150,000 and 260,000 cases of pertussis were reported each year, with up to 9,000 pertussis-related deaths.

Instead of stating that there was actually under 1,000 deaths just before the vaccine was licensed, instead the CDC uses the 9,000 death figure . . . the death rate from the early 1920's.

About thirty years prior to the licensure of the vaccine.

They also use the highest number of reported cases (260,000), which was in the 1930's (1935), yet they conveniently leave out the actual number of cases just prior to the licensure of the DTP, which was about 70,000 cases.

The decline in incidence and death was well underway prior to the license and introduction of the vaccine.
wait a second...whooping cough? babies still get that today! babies that are vaxed! that makes up my mind about THAT one...I think i'm just going to get rid of all my sons vaxes. its not like he *needs* them unless he wants to go to college and i'm pretty sure that by then he can make up his OWN mind what he wants to put into his body. I shudder some of the vaccines i got as a kid and didn't have a choice about.
wednesday's Avatar wednesday 12:56 PM 02-05-2006
Originally Posted by CalebsMama05
its not like he *needs* them unless he wants to go to college
Maybe not even then...in my state at least, the exemptions that are allowed for daycare or public school apply to colleges as well.
rabrog's Avatar rabrog 08:47 PM 02-06-2006
Why are parents so hung up on having a pediatrician? No offense intended, I just don't get it.

There's only one in our town that is for delayed vax and he has a waiting list.

We use a family practice doctor. He's my and DH's doctor, handled my pregnancy with DD and is cool with our not vaxing.

I suggest looking at a family practice group.

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