I'm thrilled! Mumps keeps spreading! - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleycat
at least today injections are a rare thing for children and adults on a visit to the doctor's
ROFLMAO...you can't possibly be serious...with twenty vaccines before age 18months....I'd say kids today get more shots than ever.

edit:
I have a cp scar. My "girly" hair covers it though. I only see it when I go brazilian.

My dd had the mumps. I told one doc she was vaccinated (a lie) and he said it was strep throat. I told the other doc she was not vaccinated for mumps and he said "aha...classic case of the mumps".

I don't think a doctor today would know a case of the mumps on sight even if it jumped up and bit him on the gonads.
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#122 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 10:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen123
ROFLMAO...you can't possibly be serious...with twenty vaccines before age 18months....I'd say kids today get more shots than ever.

edit:
I have a cp scar. My "girly" hair covers it though. I only see it when I go brazilian.

My dd had the mumps. I told one doc she was vaccinated (a lie) and he said it was strep throat. I told the other doc she was not vaccinated for mumps and he said "aha...classic case of the mumps".

I don't think a doctor today would know a case of the mumps on sight even if it jumped up and bit him on the gonads.
Mine didn't have that many before 18 months perhaps the vaccine schedule is different in Australia they have them here at birth, 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, and 18 months then 4 years.
I never remember more than 2 injections at a time so even if each visit had 2 which they don't that would make 8 before 18 months old. I only remeber them having 2 at 4 because that is an age kids know what is going on and I thought it was not the nicest thing for them [ my son hasn't reached that age that happens later this year].
What I meant was when I was a child over 4-5 when you remember these things ,our doctor used to give needles for everything whereas today they would give you a script or advice [ then again that may have just been out particular doctor - thanks mum ]
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#123 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
Scarlet fever was, during the 19th century in England and Wales, the third biggest killer of children after whooping cough and measles. It was much feared. And yet today it is virtually non-existent, despite there not being a vaccine for it on the schedule.
I totally agree with you on the TB part of your post, but I'm afraid I must disagree about your logic concerning scarlett fever. Since scarlett fever is caused from untreated strep throat (a bacterial infection), it actually truly came under control once antibiotics and sulfa was used to treat bacterial infections. The evidence is still clear that vaxes are definitely NOT the reason for the decline in illness during the 20th century. A revolutionary concept called sanitation is more likely the reason.
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#124 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamanurse
I totally agree with you on the TB part of your post, but I'm afraid I must disagree about your logic concerning scarlett fever. Since scarlett fever is caused from untreated strep throat (a bacterial infection), it actually truly came under control once antibiotics and sulfa was used to treat bacterial infections. The evidence is still clear that vaxes are definitely NOT the reason for the decline in illness during the 20th century. A revolutionary concept called sanitation is more likely the reason.
There's the antibiotic thing with strep, but also the bacteria itself (they say) has mutated into a less pathenogenic organism.
I'm not sure I buy that, but today most kids who get strep don't get scarlet fever, even when they don't take abx's.
It could just be that our immune systems are working better coz we're not all starving now that just makes it look like the bacteria has evolved, IMO.
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#125 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 11:36 PM
 
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Even if antibiotics helped it, it would still be around to get first. You'd get it, then get the antibiotics. I don't see that happening. My mom had mumps, measles, chicken pox and scarlentia. She said scarlentia was by far the worst. She didn't mind measles at all. She got to stay home and watch tv. Wow, sounds like an AWFUL disease. Thank god we have a vaccine for it.
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#126 of 550 Old 04-16-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Brite
Even if antibiotics helped it, it would still be around to get first. You'd get it, then get the antibiotics. I don't see that happening. My mom had mumps, measles, chicken pox and scarlentia. She said scarlentia was by far the worst. She didn't mind measles at all. She got to stay home and watch tv. Wow, sounds like an AWFUL disease. Thank god we have a vaccine for it.
Strep throat is still alive and well, RB. You've probably had it a time or two yourself and didn't know what it was.
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#127 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 12:39 AM
 
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Kindof OT, but my mom, sister, and I all had Scarlet Fever in the mid-70's. I was late toddler/early preschool age and my sister was probably in 4th or 5th grade. We were miserable, but none-the-worse for the wear in the long-run, including my mom. I thought I had measles, but my mom thinks the only rash I had was in association with SF.

Oh, and all three of us never had CP - I know I was directly exposed to it a couple of times; both my nieces have had it yet my sister never got it. Unfortunately I was bullied into the vax shortly after ds#1 was born because I had no antibodies for CP, and the doctor (and my former ob) told me that if I were exposed again while pregnant and got sick that the baby would be in grave danger. So, fear took over rather than common sense (many exposures and never sick ... hmm ... maybe natural immunity?), and I let myself get shot. GRR ... but I'm hoping the stupid shot didn't interfer with my immunity, and hope to expose my boys when they are a year or two older (and soon-to-be born baby is at an age where it'd be safe for him/her to be exposed).

Oh, and ds#1 asked me out of the blue the other day, "Mommy, when am I going to get the chicken pox?" He wasn't even worried about it, but more like, this is a normal thing ... is it my turn yet? I asked him where he learned about CP and he said, "Caillou had CP the other day."

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#128 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 03:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alley cat
Mine didn't have that many before 18 months perhaps the vaccine schedule is different in Australia they have them here at birth, 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, and 18 months then 4 years.
I never remember more than 2 injections at a time so even if each visit had 2 which they don't that would make 8 before 18 months old. I only remeber them having 2 at 4 because that is an age kids know what is going on and I thought it was not the nicest thing for them [ my son hasn't reached that age that happens later this year].
Okay, but how many vaccines are in each of those injections? 3, 4, more for some of the nasty things now? I mean if your child gets the DTaP and MMR in the same day, the poisons of 7 different diseases are entering their bodies in a 5 minute (or less) period. When the PP quoted 20+ vaccines before 18 months of age, she wasn't talking about how many times the child feels the sting of a needle, but how many questionably-effective foreign invaders their still-immature immune system has to fight off at the same time!
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#129 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamakay
Strep throat is still alive and well, RB. You've probably had it a time or two yourself and didn't know what it was.
I don't get strep throat because I don't have tonsiles. (My entire family had it a few years ago and I didn't get so much as a sore throat. I was told it was becuase I didn't have tonsiles.)

So if that is the case, couldn't the initial decline have been the fact that they used to removed tonsiles right and left??

ETA: I also wanted to add that we did NOT get shots for everything when I was a kid. The only ones I remember were vaccines, I wasn't given shots for anything else. Maybe it was just YOUR doctor alleycat not doctors in general.
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#130 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:14 PM
 
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Just a little FYI from the CDC regarding the "ongoing mumps outbreak" in the UK:

The outbreak in the UK has been ongoing from 2004 to 2006 and has involved > 70,000 cases.
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#131 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alley cat
Mine didn't have that many before 18 months perhaps the vaccine schedule is different in Australia they have them here at birth, 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, and 18 months then 4 years.
I never remember more than 2 injections at a time so even if each visit had 2 which they don't that would make 8 before 18 months old. I only remeber them having 2 at 4 because that is an age kids know what is going on and I thought it was not the nicest thing for them [ my son hasn't reached that age that happens later this year
according to the standard vax schedule for australia per the website: http://immunise.health.gov.au/schedule.pdf

birth:
HepB

2 months:
HepB
DTP
Hib
IPV
PCV

4 months:
HepB
DTP
Hib
IPV
PCV


6 months:
HepB
DTP
Hib
IPV
PCV


12 months:
HepB
Hib
MMR
MenCCV

18 months
VCV
PPV

4 yrs
DTP
IPV
MMR

the site also says that they need a total of 4 hepB shots,

it lists 5 since some dont do it at birth still apparantly.

for your comparison purposes, here is the US vax schedule:

Quote:
The following list provides a suggested timetable. Although vaccine schedules can differ slightly, you can generally expect the following vaccines at the ages indicated:

Birth
Hepatitis B #1

2 months
DTaP #1
Polio #1
Hib #1
Hepatitis B #2
Pneumococcus #1

4 months
DTaP #2
Polio #2
Hib #2
Pneumococcus #2

6 months
DTaP #3
Hib #3 (depending on the type of Hib vaccine used, this dose may be omitted)
Pneumococcus #3

12 months
MMR#1
Varicella
Hepatitis A #1

15-18 months
Hib #4
Polio #3
Hepatitis B #3
Pneumococcus #4
DTaP #4
Hepatitis A #2

4-6 years
MMR #2
Polio #4
DTaP #5

11-12 years
Tetanus, diphtheria (this vaccine should be given every 10 years)
Meningococcus
http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/div...c.jsp?id=75700

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#132 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2evan05
When the PP quoted 20+ vaccines before 18 months of age, she wasn't talking about how many times the child feels the sting of a needle, but how many questionably-effective foreign invaders their still-immature immune system has to fight off at the same time!
exactly.

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#133 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:28 PM
 
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Don't forget rotavirus and hepatitis A for the U.S. schedule !!!!

Hep. A: Two (2) doses beginning at 12 months
Rotavirus: 2, 4 and 6 months
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#134 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aniT
I don't get strep throat because I don't have tonsiles. (My entire family had it a few years ago and I didn't get so much as a sore throat. I was told it was becuase I didn't have tonsiles.)
Oh no, you can most definitely get strep throat without tonsils. Whoever told you that was grossly misinformed. You can't get tonsillitis, but you can get strep. Strep is just a bacterial infection, it doesn't care where in your throat it sets up shop.

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#135 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LongIsland
Don't forget rotavirus and hepatitis A for the U.S. schedule !!!!

Hep. A: Two (2) doses beginning at 12 months
Rotavirus: 2, 4 and 6 months
yep, but chop hasn't added them as "standard" vaxes on their website yet.

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#136 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LongIsland
Don't forget rotavirus and hepatitis A for the U.S. schedule !!!!

Hep. A: Two (2) doses beginning at 12 months
Rotavirus: 2, 4 and 6 months
When did hepA get added? Argg the amount of vaccines is just sick and getting sicker!
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#137 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeMommy
Oh no, you can most definitely get strep throat without tonsils. Whoever told you that was grossly misinformed. You can't get tonsillitis, but you can get strep. Strep is just a bacterial infection, it doesn't care where in your throat it sets up shop.
Shrug, well I have never gotten it no matter how often or how closely I have been eposed.

ETA: It was the NP at the Ped's office when I took DD#2 in for it. We go to a naturpath now.
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#138 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mom2tig99Nroo03
yep, but chop hasn't added them as "standard" vaxes on their website yet.
It's not technically "official" until the CDC formerly adopts the recent ACIP recommendations.
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#139 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 03:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aniT
Shrug, well I have never gotten it no matter how often or how closely I have been eposed.

ETA: It was the NP at the Ped's office when I took DD#2 in for it. We go to a naturpath now.
Yeah, you can definitely get strep with or without tonsils, but I know that some people just don't get it. I used to get tonsilitis all the time, but I have never had strep a day in my life no matter how many others around me got it. I know that happens with chicken pox too. I imagine it probably is the case with just about anything though.
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#140 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 03:18 PM
 
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This is the mumps information the CDC gives to "professionals" on their website:

What about mumps complications?
Severe complications of mumps are rare. However, mumps can cause acquired sensorineural hearing loss in children; incidence is estimated at 1 in 20,000 cases. Mumps-associated encephalitis occurs in < 2 per 100,000 cases and approximately 1% of encephalitis cases are fatal.

Some complications of mumps are known to occur more frequently among adults than among children. Adults have a higher risk for mumps meningoencephalitis than children. In addition, orchitis occurs in up to 30-40% of cases in post pubertal males. Although it is frequently bilateral, it rarely causes sterility. Mastitis has been reported in as many as 31% of female patients older than 15 years who have mumps.

Other rare complications of mumps are oophoritis and pancreatitis.
Aseptic meningitis occurs in 10% of cases and is associated with a good prognosis [OF COURSE, IT'S VIRAL]. Although mumps infection in the first trimester of pregnancy may result in fetal loss, there is no evidence that mumps during pregnancy causes congenital malformations. [emphasis and bracketed text added by me]




. . . and this is the language given to parents:


Complications
Severe complications are rare. However, mumps can cause:


*inflammation of the brain and/or tissue covering the brain and spinal cord (encephalitis/meningitis)
*inflammation of the testicles (orchitis)
*inflammation of the ovaries and/or breasts (oophoritis and mastitis)
*spontaneous abortion
*deafness, usually permanent



And this is what's given on the IOWA Dept. of Health website under Mumps Facts:

What are the symptoms of mumps?
The most common symptoms are fever, headache, and swollen salivary glands under the jaw. The disease can lead to hearing loss, aseptic meningitis (infection of the covering of the brain and spinal cord) and, in 20% to 30% of males who have reached puberty, the disease can cause painful, swollen testicles.
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#141 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT
Shrug, well I have never gotten it no matter how often or how closely I have been eposed.

ETA: It was the NP at the Ped's office when I took DD#2 in for it. We go to a naturpath now.
I never got it either until 2 years ago when I was pregnant (had my tonsils out when I was 3). Haven't gotten it since then, either. And I know I was exposed a lot when I was a kid, my best friend used to get it all the time. Glad you're not seeing that NP anymore, even if that's not the reason you left, what an idiot!

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#142 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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Iowa Dept. of Health re large gatherings:
http://www.idph.state.ia.us/adper/co...ing_policy.pdf
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#143 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 06:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland
Iowa Dept. of Health re large gatherings:
http://www.idph.state.ia.us/adper/co...ing_policy.pdf
I marvel that they can continue to publish things with the "make sure you are fully vaxed" when wasn't it at last count 83% of those diagnosed with mumps were vaxed? Things that make you say, "hmm ..."

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#144 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 06:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LongIsland
The CDC's mumps health advisory dated 4/14/06 states the following:

Mumps Vaccine Effectiveness
Data from outbreak investigations have shown that the effectiveness of MMR against mumps is approximately 80% after one dose and limited data suggest effectiveness of approximately 90% after two doses


http://www.phppo.cdc.gov/HAN/Archive...AlertNum=00243

Yes, but that's to be expected . . . especially after this new statement from the CDC.
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#145 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 10:52 PM
 
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Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!

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#146 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders
Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!

they're not mathematicians

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#147 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 11:51 PM
 
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Nebraska update:

LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) -- Nebraska, which is part of an nine-state mumps epidemic, is now reporting 110 cases of the disease in 22 counties, health officials said Monday. Thirty-two of those cases are confirmed.

"Currently, most of our mumps cases are in southeastern Nebraska," said Dr. Anne O'Keefe, epidemiologist for the state Health and Human Services System.

She said most of the cases are among people ages 10 to 18 and 35 to 45. "However, we're seeing cases in children as young as 2 and adults up to age 64," she said.
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#148 of 550 Old 04-17-2006, 11:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders
Do they not know how to do math? How can the vax have an approximate 85% effectiveness and yet also have an 83% failure rate? Oh man!
It's not actually an 83% failure rate. That 83% doesn't really say how effective (or ineffective) the vaccine is. The vast majority of the population is vaccinated. If 95% of the people are vaccinated, but only 60% of the people who get mumps are fully vaccinated and 23% are partially vaccinated (I don't know the actual numbers, just pulling them out of the air), then that doesn't mean the vaccine has an 83% failure rate, kwim? The only way we could say the vaccine had an 83% failure rate would be if, out of every 100 vaccinated individuals, an average of 83 of them got mumps. That doesn't *appear* to be the case. (Although no one really knows how many people have caught mumps, since 1/3 of the people who catch it won't have symptoms.)

At any rate, the fact that 83% of the people who get it are vaccinated still shows *most* of us that the vaccine is pretty freakin useless. And the outbreak proves that mumps is pretty harmless. My MIL has had it twice (as a child and as a 40-something-year-old woman) with no problems. The little girl next door had it when DD was about 9 or 10 months old. That girl was fully vaccinated. DD didn't get sick from either one of them, despite being exposed while they were contagious. Of course, we don't know if that means she didn't actually catch it, or if she just had an asymptomatic case.... And I'm not vaccinating her either way, so I don't see the point in subjecting her to a blood draw just to check titres.
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#149 of 550 Old 04-18-2006, 12:05 AM
 
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Oh, and another interesting factoid: Symptomatic mumps infection is very rare in children under age 2. The old wives' tale used to be that you couldn't get mumps until you had "all your jaw teeth". Turns out it's pretty accurate, because you get your last molars at around 2 years of age, which is when you become susceptible to symptomatic mumps infection. I can't really get clear information on whether kids under 2 just don't get infected at all, or whether they don't have symptoms, but most places you read will say that mumps infection is rare in children under age 2.

(And before all of you with stories of mumps in kids under age 2 jump down my throat, I said it was RARE, not impossible. )
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#150 of 550 Old 04-18-2006, 03:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
Yeah, you can definitely get strep with or without tonsils, but I know that some people just don't get it. I used to get tonsilitis all the time, but I have never had strep a day in my life no matter how many others around me got it. I know that happens with chicken pox too. I imagine it probably is the case with just about anything though.
i'm the same way. my older sister got (and still gets) strep all the time. i've *never* had it. she was always sicker than me though anyway. my mom attributes that to her ingesting mercury from a thermometer when she was a kid...she was also breastfed for less time than i was. she still gets sick aLOT. it might just be that some people are susceptible and some aren't. i've also never had bronchitis or tonsillitis.

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