Catholic Church & Vaxing - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 12:19 PM
 
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true
Bet insurance covers it, though, to cancel out the viagra.
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#62 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Montessori Mommy
agreed

Again, I'm not a Catholic, so the things I've been told are just that, things I've been told...but, my uncle, (who is a Catholic) & I were having this discussion the other day. He was talking about getting a vasectomy (he has 5 children already) and I asked him if he was going to bank some sperm for "a rainy day" and he said he can't, because he's Catholic. *IF* that is true that Catholics should not bank sperm (not embryos, mind you, but sperm), then I really am confused. You can't put away seed for future use (and also shouldn't take the pill, either, right?), but it's okay to use the product of an abortion because it was so long ago and might save thousands of lives (arguably, stem cell research might save thousands of lives as well, but the church has spoken out against that already)?!?

Not trying to offend anyone here. I absolutely respect every person's choice of religion, and I think this is an interesting debate.
Okay... First of all, it seems your uncle is confused, or he is picking and choosing which teachings of the Church to follow. Vasectomy is sterilization. Sterilization is against an official teaching of the Church, Humanae Vitae, and does fall into the "no birth control" rule.

Banking sperm is an issue because masturbation is wrong in Church teaching and the typical way I know of to obtain sperm would be...masturbation. It also goes against Church teaching on conception. Artificial insemination is wrong in Catholic teaching, and banking sperm would be for artificial insemination should they ever change their minds about the vasectomy. I know for non-Catholics (and some Catholics) a lot probably makes no sense. It's all about the marital bond between husband and wife, and how procreation needs to be through the marital act. Natural Family Planning (not just rhythm, which is actually recommended against due to unreliability...whereas sympto-thermal or Billings is much more scientific) is an acceptable means of spacing or achieving pregnancy...and the spacing thing should not be abused. There should be good reasons for spacing or putting off getting pregnant.

Something like a hysterectomy is not forbidden if the reason for it is a medical issue like a huge cyst or cancer. Same thing with oral contraceptives, though an alternative is better because of their abortifacient nature. But if someone has a medical condition like nonstop bleeding or cysts that can be helped with the Pill, then it is permissible to use it since the intent is not to contracept.

As far as stem cell research, it's frustrating because to my knowledge there are no success stories relating to the use of embryonic stem cells. However, there are already existing success stories relating to the use of adult stem cells, taken from people's own bodies or from umbilical cord blood. So why keep harping on the need for unborn babies' bodies when there are successes already out there? Also, it's the intent.

JET
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#63 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 01:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellbelle
If I may step in for a moment...



Although "limbo" is no longer considered official Church teaching, the Church has stated that it's still OK to believe it if you wish.

More waffling, IMO. :



I think bebesho may have been referring to the statement that JPII made, several years back. He clarified the term "purgatory" - not an actual place, but rather a state of cleansing in preparation for eternity in Heaven. And since the concept of time as we know it ceases to exist once we have died, the practice of "praying someone out of purgatory" makes no sense to me - since its likely (IMO) that they've probably moved on already.



The practice of "indulgences" still exists in the Church today.
Okay, so I misstated about Purgatory being a place. It was my own, frail, human mind that did that. It IS a state of cleansing, to prepare for an eternity in Heaven. Thank you for clarifying that.

Indulgences today are about prayer, though. Not money.

JET
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#64 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 01:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
Sorry, I should have let that post slide, as this isn't the religion forum. :
It's not the religion forum, but I'm not qualified for that one yet!! I asked about it and was told that I have to be a member for 60 days and have to have at least 50 posts. I'm getting closer with the posts, but I just joined this past week!

JET
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#65 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jet1295mamajenn
Indulgences today are about prayer, though. Not money.
Oh, I think you'll still find the buying and selling of "tickets to heaven" in practice, if you look hard enough. I know plenty of people who think they can "buy" a Mass indulgence (actually, a memorial). In fact, my parish no longer requires a stipend for a Mass memorial b/c our Deacon/Pastoral Administrator got so uncomfortable with the idea of people believing that they were "buying" a Mass.

The whole concept of indulgences should be abolished, IMO. It clouds the central theme of salvation through faith.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#66 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 02:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bebesho2
Ummm, correct me if I am wrong but the vasectomy would be against the Catholic "no birth control" rule.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
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#67 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 02:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skellbelle
Oh, please. That just gives all us prayin' people a bad name. :
So...I guess you didn't read the part where I said that comment was meant to be a bit of wry humor, or tongue in cheek, to lighten the mood a little. Just because it's a discussion regarding religion doesn't mean it has to be deadly serious. Do you really think we'd have a sense of humor if God didn't have one? I guess I'm surprised at the reaction. But I don't guess I'll bother anymore. It was a joke, I said it was a joke, and if that's not enough, fine. I'm not sure I care.

Once again, I'll reiterate. It does more good for a person to pray for those he dislikes or disagrees with than it does for him to argue, curse, or fight with them. I didn't realize that was such a foreign concept. It's been obvious to me since I was a child. I believe it was even stated in the same manner (tongue in cheek) by a priest we had when I was growing up.

Besides, how would a person ever know, unless you told them, that you were praying for them?

I'll not further contribute to the subject. No point, as far as I can see.
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#68 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Laurel723
So...I guess you didn't read the part where I said that comment was meant to be a bit of wry humor, or tongue in cheek, to lighten the mood a little. Just because it's a discussion regarding religion doesn't mean it has to be deadly serious. Do you really think we'd have a sense of humor if God didn't have one? I guess I'm surprised at the reaction. But I don't guess I'll bother anymore. It was a joke, I said it was a joke, and if that's not enough, fine. I'm not sure I care.

Once again, I'll reiterate. It does more good for a person to pray for those he dislikes or disagrees with than it does for him to argue, curse, or fight with them. I didn't realize that was such a foreign concept. It's been obvious to me since I was a child. I believe it was even stated in the same manner (tongue in cheek) by a priest we had when I was growing up.

Besides, how would a person ever know, unless you told them, that you were praying for them?

I'll not further contribute to the subject. No point, as far as I can see.
Laurel, you keep saying it was humor, but then you continue to say the same thing in different words. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some people don't want to hear that you think they are so pathetic that you have to pray for them?

Bet you're prayin' for me now, aren't ya?
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#69 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jet,

Thanks for the explaination, that makes more sense now, but also seems to make a rather clear case for the church to be anti-vax (at least when it comes to the fetal tissue ones). I dunno, these questions are bigger than me, and it's just my 2 cents.

Yeah, my uncle was raised Catholic in a big family (he's my uncle thru marriage), my aunt is not Catholic. I don't think he goes to church anymore, but I think he values the teachings and tries to follow what he should. I'll have to tell him about that vasectomy, he might cry though!
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#70 of 70 Old 07-27-2006, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurel723
So...I guess you didn't read the part where I said that comment was meant to be a bit of wry humor, or tongue in cheek, to lighten the mood a little.
IMO, it's simply not funny. And, joke or not, it still gives us praying people a bad name.


Quote:
Besides, how would a person ever know, unless you told them, that you were praying for them?
Then why the need to make a bad joke about annoying people specifically by telling them?


Quote:
I'll not further contribute to the subject. No point, as far as I can see.
Now THAT statement I believe we can both agree upon!



Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama
Bet you're prayin' for me now, aren't ya?
Well if she says yes, be rest assured it's just a joke.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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