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#1 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I'm fairly new here and pretty new to the debate against vaccinations. I've been reading this forum for quite a few days now and I am feeling more and more lost every time I come here.

My DS is 21 months and has always been fine after his vax's. I've never noticed any sort of reaction at all.

Now, my problem is... I have a 5 week old DS and I'm really scared to vaccinate him. I don't know if you're all right in what you believe but I don't know that you're wrong either so how can I risk it?? I feel like the more I research the more confused I become. I want to do the right thing I just wish I knew what it was!! I don't want to put poison into my baby's body but I don't want him to become sick either.

My other problem is, is that I am a very very non-confrontational person. I'm not good at speaking my mind, ESPECIALLY to doctors. I have never really felt the need until now. I know that I won't be able to stand up to the ped. if he gives me all these reasons that vax's are safe I will probably just say "okay" and let them do it. That really makes me feel like a weak mom.

So what happens when you go to the ped. and tell them you want to delay vax's until at least 6 months? Do they get mad?? Threaten you? Refuse to treat your child? Is there anything I need to know about refusing a vaccination? Any tips?? I'm really nervous and DS's appt. is coming up in 3 weeks.

I am so worried about this that I feel ill and I just want to cry. Can you just skip well baby appts until you want to get a vax?

Somebody please enlighten me!! : : :

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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#2 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:19 AM
 
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Take a deep breath... you are doing great just by doing the research! It can be very daunting at first, and sometimes even now I feel like I know more than I want to, although I want what's best for my kids so I don't really mean that.

You said you've been reading here for a few days so I won't bombard you with a bunch of links and such... I will say what many others likely will, which is that it is FINE to delay and that you can always wait but once it's in there it isn't coming out! Think back to when and how often you yourself were vaxed - it wasn't as soon or as often or with as many vaxes as are recommended today, and I bet you and your dh are not up to date on your own booster vaxes, so just relax and take the time you need to research the issue until you can make a decision you feel comfortable with.

And to answer your question, YES it is perfectly ok to skip well-baby visits; many people here do not go to them, as the main reason to go is to get vaxes. If you're worried about baby's weight you can always weigh him at home!

Also, I think I will give you one link - Dr Jay Gordon is a pedi who is very much for delayed and much-diminished vaxing, and you might be able to sort out a lot of info at his site. I'm also told he has a very good and informative DVD out about vaxes: www.drjaygordon.com

Good luck and remember to take all the time you need!


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#3 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:23 AM
 
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He's your baby and you can do as you please.

Many moms skip well baby checks altogether--why does he need to see a doctor if he isn't sick?

You can always wait to give a vaccination, but you cannot take them back once you've given them. You might delay making any decisions, or taking any actions, until you have done more research and your head isn't spinning. It does actually happen--stick around and keep reading, things will become very clear for you.

All of the things you listed above about docs' reactions to delaying or not vaxxing happen, and once in a while, you get a doc who's totally cool. You never know. DD's first doc was initially fine with delaying vax, then got really passive aggressive with me after it became clear that her endless hounding to give her shots wasn't getting anywhere. I left her practice. I could never trust anyone who didn't respect my decisions.

Your first job is to protect your son, do what allows you to do that.
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#4 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:24 AM
 
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Hugs to you. It's all very confusing because each side thinks they are right. The more I read the easier the decision is for me. As alot of people on here say, you can always vax but you can not un-vax. You should wait until you know for sure what you want to do.

I can't help you with how docs react because that hasn't been an issue for us yet but as long as your little one is healthy and your not concerned about his development then you can definetly skip the well child check ups. I'd suggest buying or locating a baby scale, I bought one online for about $60, that you can use to keep track of baby's weight. Also document his length. The scale I bought even came with height and length charts.

Sorry I can't be of much more help I'm sure that there are others on here that should be able to help you more than I can.
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#5 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood
Can you just skip well baby appts until you want to get a vax?
I've taken my younger completely unvaxed son to WBV's a handful of times and they really were a waste of time. We haven't gone since he was a baby and I used an exemption to avoid the medical examination for nursery school, along with an exemption from immunization.

You also don't have to go to the doc when they're sick either - my son is 2.5 years old and has never gone in for a sick visit and has never had any OTC or prescription medication. A far cry from what I did with my first born, but what's that saying: when you know better, you do better.
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#6 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for being so compassionate. Can you get in trouble for not going to well baby visits?? Will I be reported?? Is there any law saying you HAVE to take your baby to the doctor at such and such an age?? Do I need an exemption form just to skip the visits??

ETA

Also, if I do skip the visits, and he gets sick, when I bring him in to the ped. will they bombard me with questions like "WHAT he's not vax'd?!? We need to do that ASAP" etc etc?

Sorry for all the questions. Like I said this is very new to me.

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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#7 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:48 AM
 
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I'm not sure about the state you live in but most states you are not committing medical neglect unless you neglect to get treatment when your child is ill. Meaning no you can't get in trouble for skipping wbv.

And any doc with half a brain wouldn't give a vax to an ill child.
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#8 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood
Thank you all for being so compassionate. Can you get in trouble for not going to well baby visits?? Will I be reported?? Is there any law saying you HAVE to take your baby to the doctor at such and such an age?? Do I need an exemption form just to skip the visits??
You may be asked to sign what's called a Refusal to Vaccinate form. I'll link up a thread for you to read so you're prepared and know what to do just in case. Most peds do not insist on this form however.

Well baby visits are not required by law. I'll post some medical neglect threads in here to put your mind at ease. You don't need an exemption in order to skip well baby visits. However, if you decide to keep your child vax free, it's better to say to docs that you are religiously opposed to the practice of immunization.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood
Also, if I do skip the visits, and he gets sick, when I bring him in to the ped. will they bombard me with questions like "WHAT he's not vax'd?!? We need to do that ASAP" etc etc?
You could firmly inform the ped that you are delaying. Personally, I would not discuss immunization with a pediatrician . . . they're the last one's I would go to for advice and information if I were on the fence. They're notoriously stupid when it comes to vaccines.
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#9 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DandK
I'm not sure about the state you live in but most states you are not committing medical neglect unless you neglect to get treatment when your child is ill.
Actually, the child would need to be in imminent danger and the state would need to prove that the child will only be out of imminent danger if a particular medical procedure is performed.

It's a heavy burden on the state - this is why children don't get taken away from nonvaxing parents if vax status is the sole reason they get reported. Couple that with claiming immunization is against your religious beliefs and it gets heavier.
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#10 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 01:06 AM
 
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also most states have a exception part on their neglect statues, and if you dont get medical treatment for religous or monetary reasons, its not neglect.
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#11 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 01:12 AM
 
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I'm in a similar boat. I'm a FTM due Oct & am having trouble making a decision. I was leaning twards no-vac now I'm not sure. The info out there is soooo overwhelming & I'm not sure what to beleve & who is telling the truth. I do have a bit of time & if I do decide to vac I will only do them selectively & delayed so I guess I have time to figure it out. I do plan on going to the well baby visits b/c I'm a FTM & will prob have ??'s & I think I will find them reasuring. I'm currrently looking for a Ped & one of my decisions will be based on them being suportive of my choices. The one I have met w/ so far said that when the time comes he will explain everything to me & if I decide against vac then he will just have me sign a waiver, no prob.
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#12 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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Something else to consider is looking for a family doctor rather than a pediatrician. In my experience, the difference between them has been night and day. Literally, a ped who wouldn't take non-vaxing patients versus a family doctor whose practice philosophy is: "it's the parents' decision". I found a comfort level by finding a family doctor who would see us and establishing my kids as patients. We went once two years ago to get charts started and have never been back. But I know if I ever have need of a doc, I can call them up. Or if I end up at the hospital, I can refer to my doctor, Dr. X.
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#13 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi_m
Take a deep breath... you are doing great just by doing the research! It can be very daunting at first, and sometimes even now I feel like I know more than I want to, although I want what's best for my kids so I don't really mean that.

You said you've been reading here for a few days so I won't bombard you with a bunch of links and such... I will say what many others likely will, which is that it is FINE to delay and that you can always wait but once it's in there it isn't coming out! Think back to when and how often you yourself were vaxed - it wasn't as soon or as often or with as many vaxes as are recommended today, and I bet you and your dh are not up to date on your own booster vaxes, so just relax and take the time you need to research the issue until you can make a decision you feel comfortable with.

And to answer your question, YES it is perfectly ok to skip well-baby visits; many people here do not go to them, as the main reason to go is to get vaxes. If you're worried about baby's weight you can always weigh him at home!

Also, I think I will give you one link - Dr Jay Gordon is a pedi who is very much for delayed and much-diminished vaxing, and you might be able to sort out a lot of info at his site. I'm also told he has a very good and informative DVD out about vaxes: www.drjaygordon.com

Good luck and remember to take all the time you need!


Heidi
Thank you SO much for that link! I found it to be very very helpful. I am ordering his DVD. My DH told me to "let him handle the ped." when it comes to delaying vax. He said "You know I'm not scared of Dr.'s, they're people too ya know." I really sound pathetic to be so afraid to express my opinions to a dr. I wonder where the comes from?

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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#14 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MomInFlux
Something else to consider is looking for a family doctor rather than a pediatrician. In my experience, the difference between them has been night and day. Literally, a ped who wouldn't take non-vaxing patients versus a family doctor whose practice philosophy is: "it's the parents' decision". I found a comfort level by finding a family doctor who would see us and establishing my kids as patients. We went once two years ago to get charts started and have never been back. But I know if I ever have need of a doc, I can call them up. Or if I end up at the hospital, I can refer to my doctor, Dr. X.
Do you know if you can call the Dr. and outright ask how he/she feels about a delayed/selective vax schedule?? Will they tell you over the phone or not?

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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#15 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:34 AM
 
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Here is the link to the Refusal to vaccinate form. Please read the second page. It's not a form I'd be prepared to sign:

http://www.cispimmunize.org/pro/pdf/..._2pageform.pdf

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#16 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood
Do you know if you can call the Dr. and outright ask how he/she feels about a delayed/selective vax schedule?? Will they tell you over the phone or not?
Sure. It's my first question when searching for a ped. "Do you accept unvaccinated patients"

-Angela
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#17 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:44 AM
 
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Like you, I didn't know what to do but I definitely did not feel OK about vaccinating my DD when she was a tiny baby. If you feel strongly about it you will have the strength to stand up to the doctor. Just explain that you are delaying the vaccinations for right now. You can give a reason, or not give a reason, but if you are firm about it it is less likely that they will try to give you the "hard sell". I found we had virtually no problems with either of the two peds we have had so far. The 2nd ped (we moved) clearly wished we would vax and questioned our decision, but she told me that she knew I had made an informed decision to delay vaccination, and didn't say anything else about it (except that she noted it in the chart - in an extremely straightforward manner - at every WBV). She even answered my questions about the vax schedule, at which age the different vax series may require one fewer shot. Even though she clearly disagreed with me, she held her tongue, and I think it was a combination of professionalism and respect for the parent (which not all peds have) and also my firmness. I did not look to her to tell me what to do, I told her what we would be doing.

Disclaimer, since from the paragraph above it sounds like I am not planning to vax: although I think you posted to the now-defunct "pro-vax" thread so you probably saw my posts on there, I'm now thinking of vaccinating Nora starting at age 2. I still have not made a final decision and I definitely will not be doing ALL of the recommended vaxes.

I think it can be as difficult to talk to some peds about delayed/selective vaxing as it is to talk about NO vaxing. Some doctors just don't want to see anyone deviate from the schedule. But, it is up to you - it's your child. Take as long as you need to feel comfortable with whatever decision you make IRT vaccinations.
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#18 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 02:56 AM
 
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Regardless of whether or not I vaccinate, I would only want a doc seeing my children who would accept people who do not vaccinate. The reason being, I don't want a doctor whose ego is too wrapped up in you following their suggestions. Every doctor should recognize that the parents have the right to make the decisions for their child's health care. Parents need to realize that they need to accept responsibility for those decisions.

I have found several peds who will accept non-vaxed kids. I have even found one who says, "Well, it's your decision. You take them home at the end of the day." And doesn't harrass us.
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#19 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 04:19 AM
 
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It's wonderful that you are researching this! Keep up the good work

Don't vaccinate your 5mo till you are SURE it's the right thing to do. Don't ever let anyone tell you to do something you're worried about doing, especially when your child's health is at stake.

Start researching the diseases one by one. After you research, say, measles then research the measles vaccine. Which would you prefer your child to have? Go through all of the vaccine preventable diseases till you are satisfied that you have made the right decision. This way you can decide which, if any, you want him to have.

Tell your doctor that you are delaying (this is what I do, I'm not good with vaccine confrontations yet... I'm still learning a lot about them and though I'm comfortable with my decision not to vax, I'm not prepared to talk to a pediatrician about them . You do NOT have to give any reasons at all. You do not have to make a decision now. You can always get the vaccines later, but you can't undo them once they are done.

We skip the well baby checkups...

Best wishes!

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
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#20 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 07:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
Don't vaccinate your 5mo till you are SURE it's the right thing to do. Don't ever let anyone tell you to do something you're worried about doing, especially when your child's health is at stake.

Start researching the diseases one by one. After you research, say, measles then research the measles vaccine. Which would you prefer your child to have? Go through all of the vaccine preventable diseases till you are satisfied that you have made the right decision. This way you can decide which, if any, you want him to have.
:

It is soooo overwhelming sometimes isn't it! I remember being where you are, when I told my ped that I was still researching, he got very upset with me. (my first 2 were fully vaxxed up to 18 months) I ended up leaving his office. That's what clued me in, because if there was nothing wrong with the vexes, I could do my research and he would know that I would be back to get them- IF they were completely safe and effective. Anyway, I digress.....

The easiest way I found to really research, beacuse it is so overwhelming, this is to start with the disease that you are most afraid of. I was really nervous about pertussis, so I did that first. I learned that it is rarely fatal, not a dangerous after a child is 6 months old, and complications be avoided by supporting the immune system (like giving large quantities of vitamin C). The pertusis vaccine is also very reactive. For me, I knew another way to handle the disease, so it wasn't so scary. You can then continue on through each disease. The archives here are a good place to start.

It is a tough journey sometimes, but in the end it all seems to come together and make a whole lot of sense.

BTW- not vaxing means that I (personally) am proactive in supporting our immune systems so they can handle whatever they encounter. That means we have changed are diet, lot of fruits, veggies and protein, very little refined sugar (which suppresses the immune system) and junk food.

Congratulations on questioning this! I wish I did before I vaccinated my older children.
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#21 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 11:47 AM
 
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Your older ds is probably immune to the diseases he's been vaxed for, even if he's not fully vaxed to the schedule.
I'm going to post a separate post, so I don't get yours too OT.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#22 of 22 Old 08-04-2006, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood
Do you know if you can call the Dr. and outright ask how he/she feels about a delayed/selective vax schedule?? Will they tell you over the phone or not?
What Angela said. I just picked up the phone and started calling. I live in a very small town, so my options were limited. First call was to the popular ped in town. "Do you take unvaccinated patients?" Response was a horrified "NO". Second call was to the family doc. "Do you take unvaccinated patients?" Response was "Sure - it's the parent's decision". Admittedly, I think we're their only non-vaxing patients, because when we went in they kept asking for our vax records. Actually, they would ask, and then correct themselves - "that's right; you guys don't do that."
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