Seasonal flu - want the facts or the propaganda before you offer up the arm? - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-01-2006, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's that time again.

It's time to separate the facts from all the propagranda because influenza season is just around the corner folks

:
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children.
Smith S, Demicheli V, Di Pietrantonj C, Harnden A, Jefferson T, Matheson Nj, Rivetti A. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006 Jan 25;(1):CD004879. Related Articles, Links


Highlights (as told by poster Blessed):

- Vaccine hasn't been shown effective in under two year olds

- Safety trials are uniformly lacking

- In the greater than 2 yo's, only 33% efficacy found. In other words, two out of three vaccinated kids will still get some sort of flu, one third will be the strain they were vaccinated against and one third will be some other strain

- Surprise is expressed that the US and Canada have recommended vaccine for six months age and up, since efficacy and safety are not established.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Impact of Influenza Vaccination on Seasonal Mortality in the US Elderly Population
Lone Simonsen, PhD; Thomas A. Reichert, MD, PhD; Cecile Viboud, PhD; William C. Blackwelder, PhD; Robert J. Taylor, PhD; Mark A. ******, MD

Arch Intern Med. 2005;165:265-272.
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ract/165/3/265


CONCLUSIONS:
We could not correlate increasing vaccination coverage after 1980 with declining mortality rates in any age group. Because fewer than 10% of all winter deaths were attributable to influenza in any season, we conclude that observational studies substantially overestimate vaccination benefit.


Author Affiliations: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) (Dr Simonsen) and Fogarty International Center (Drs Viboud and ******), National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Md; and Entropy Research Institute, Boston, Mass (Dr Reichert).
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"Clean Hands Saves Lives"

From the CDC:

Keeping hands clean is one of the most important steps we can take to avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others. It is best to wash your hands with soap and clean running water for 20 seconds. However, if soap and clean water are not available, use an alcohol-based product to clean your hands. Alcohol-based hand rubs significantly reduce the number of germs on skin and are fast acting.


http://www.cdc.gov/cleanhands/
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also from the CDC:

Flu vaccine is the best way to prevent infection with the flu virus and the complications associated with flu
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:22 PM
 
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No, I don't fear the flu, and here is why: we're overall healthy folk, even counting the food allergy/autistic/sn child. We wash our hands after each sneeze in the season (yeah, almost ocd-like, but effective, nonetheless). We don't share spit (drinks). We up vit c and garlic in that timeframe, and we keep really well hydrated. We eat well. We increase good rem sleep. We do all those things regularly up to and even moreso during, and we tend to not even get much more than sniffles, come cold/flu season. IF we do get fevers, we figure we needed them, and we let them run their course and do their job. We do things to keep the fevered one feeling as good as possible during the time frame, but we don't suppress fevers in our house. We wash the bedsheets daily that the fever/sniffly kid is on too. Flu should not be feared. It is the body's way of cleansing the yuck, imo.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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According to the FDA website's influenza page regarding the live intranasal flu vaccine FluMist:


What are the most common side affects of FluMist?

Nasal congestion
Runny nose
Sore throat
Headache
Irritability
Decreased activity
Muscle ache and
Cough
are the most common adverse events associated with the vaccine.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:27 PM
 
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huh. side effects sound like flu symptoms...
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:28 PM
 
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I was reading my boyfriend's Men's Journal mag. (He doesn't subscribe, they just started sending it to him.)

Anyway, there was a little section about how everyone has to to get their flu shot. It said that healthy people have to get the shot because then they won't pass the flu between sick people. Then they said that you can't get the flu from the flu shot.

And the best was at the end it said even if you don't think you need the flu shot you should go get one so that when they come out with a new vaccine against bird flu or something worse, you'll know where to go to get the vaccine!
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Health officials have been concerned about periodic shortages of flu vaccine, and are encouraging manufacturers to commit to substantial annual dose production. A recommendation to expand flu shots will reassure manufacturers, said CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding.

"Obviously, if there's an expanded recommendation for using the vaccine, the market increases," Gerberding said.




You read that right.


TRANSLATION: Yeah, we know the flu shot really doesn't save the lives of children, but universally recommending it to all children is going to make pharma a shit load of money . . . and that's all that matters.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:35 PM
 
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mmmm, Julie G-I've wanted to mail her a mirror for sooooo long. I'm sure she *can't* look in one. More bs than a university or cow farm, she has.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland
Are you freaking out about the seasonal flu?
OMG YES I am so afraid, so very very afraid : . Thinking of moving to small uninhabited island in Fiji, hoping we see no one all fall and winter . Only after getting us all our flu vaxes, of course...may double up on them to be sure .
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:50 PM
 
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The arguing already started with my Mom. Dad won't be here to take her this year, as he died in March-from lung disease complicated by...you guessed it...the flu. They both had their yearly shots and of course the infectious disease Doc was baffled on why it "didn't take" and how could my Mom have the nerve to give him the flu! : (And yes, the strain he had was in last years shot). Oh, only one other person got the flu we know (my DH) he was the only no flu vaxed one to get it-rest were vaxed.

I later learned before Dad died he gave my sister a speech about the NEED to get the shot. When I explained it is a baddddd idea, I am the idiot in their eyes.

So this year may be worse than others for me...as they line up in "Dad's memory".
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:57 PM
 
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bebesho2-While first and foremost I am sad for the loss of your dad...do they think the vaccine caused the flu or that he got in spite of being vaccinated against it or that b/c of having the vaccine he might have already been immonusuppressed and was thus unable to combat even something as simple as the flu b/c his cells were busy attacking themselves already b/c a foreign invader was inside cells making them replicate in a funky manner (I'm thinking autoimmune disorder type stuff where the "funk" binds to the cells but they still grow and reproduce but are forever changed and the body cannot distinguish btwn healthy cells and changed cells and so it attacks itself anyway)?
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The Crap Shoot

From the FDA:

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced today that it has approved this year's seasonal influenza (flu) vaccines that include the new strains of virus judged likely to cause flu in the Northern Hemisphere in 2006-2007.

Each year influenza vaccine manufacturers submit information and samples to FDA of their virus strains being manufactured for the upcoming seasonal influenza season for review and testing in FDA laboratories. Because different influenza virus strains may appear each year, one or more of the strains in the vaccine may need to be changed to protect against what public health experts think are the strains most likely to infect people that year. This season's approved formulation for the U.S. vaccine is identical to that recommended by both the World Health Organization and FDA's Advisory Committee. The formulation includes one strain that was used in last year's vaccine and two new strains. Seasonal flu vaccines do not protect against avian flu, which is caused by different viral strains.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishmama
mmmm, Julie G-I've wanted to mail her a mirror for sooooo long. I'm sure she *can't* look in one. More bs than a university or cow farm, she has.

If I looked like Cruella de Ville, I wouldn't want to look in one either.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland
From the FDA:

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced today that it has approved this year's seasonal influenza (flu) vaccines that include the new strains of virus judged likely to cause ...public health experts think are the strains most likely to infect people that year.
hmmm, what if they thought/think wrong? And *likely* is not a word I want used in the determination of drugs shot into my kids. While I'm more likely to get hit by a truck if I play in traffic, I'm also *likely* to not get hit by a truck, if I stay off the street, (but yet, still the likelyhood is there of getting hit). So then, are we *likely* to get bunk drug if we visit the doctor and then not *likely* to get pumped if we don't go? (note: I am not condoning not making wbv's. I think they are good cya's ).

Quote:
Seasonal flu vaccines do not protect against avian flu, which is caused by different viral strains.
well, rumsfeld for one will be bummed to hear this!!! I guess they'll keep pluggin tamiflu sales on line, then.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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do they think the vaccine caused the flu or that he got in spite of being vaccinated against it or that b/c of having the vaccine he might have already been immonusuppressed and was thus unable to combat even something as simple as the flu b/c his cells were busy attacking themselves already b/c a foreign invader was inside cells making them replicate in a funky manner (I'm thinking autoimmune disorder type stuff where the "funk" binds to the cells but they still grow and reproduce but are forever changed and the body cannot distinguish btwn healthy cells and changed cells and so it attacks itself anyway)?
They think he got it in spite of the vax and obviously he was not well albeit very newly diagnosed with lung disease, in a late stage. (He was working f/t asa pilot until December!) I wrote about it here when it occured, I was present when the Doc basically accused my own Mother of Giving Dad the flu!! I responded stating it was going around the area at the time (coulda got it anywhere), he was already ill with the LD, and I would not give my worst enemy a flu shot either! (yes I said that!) The man was literally dying, on a ventilator and you are gonna talk about the FLU SHOT being so important?!?! It was wild. This is when I verified if he was vaxed for the flu he caught-again, the answer was yes. As was Mom.

Funny is one of the nurses there was a woman I had met years earlier-a major opponent of all vaxes. No vaxes for her kids either.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Influenza + Pneumonia = INFLUENZA

122 Cities Mortality Reporting System
Each week, the vital statistics offices of 122 cities report the total number of death certificates received and the number of those for which pneumonia or influenza was listed as the underlying or as a contributing cause of death by age group. The percentage of all deaths due to pneumonia and influenza are compared with a seasonal baseline and epidemic threshold value calculated for each week.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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bebesho2-THANK YOU for answering the tough and ugly questions publicly. While I'm full of and give them freely (here, you DESERVE one or many NOW...), I believe the hurtful and ugly questions have to be asked (and answered) to help get to the root of things. I thank you for answering what could have been viewed as nunya (none of my danged business!) or hurtful, or tmi or rhetorical. This DOES help. Maybe his death won't be for naught, b/c maybe it will trigger someone else reading to question vaccines for an "older" relative, ya know, one NOT in pristine health? Again, heartfelt to you and your family.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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From the CDC (9/2005):


Is it safe for children to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal?
Yes.

Is it safe for pregnant women to receive an influenza vaccine that contains thimerosal?
Yes.

****************
The CDC now recommends that all children 6 months - 5 years of age be vaccinated for influenza. The CDC recommends that all preganant women be vaccinated for influenza.

The majority of children and pregnant women in the United States will receive a 1-2 doses containing full strength thimerosal.


.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishmama
Maybe his death won't be for naught, b/c maybe it will trigger someone else reading to question vaccines for an "older" relative, ya know, one NOT in pristine health?
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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States which have thimerosal bans currently in effect for children under the age of 3 and pregnant women have exceptions for influenza vaccine in the event of "shortages."
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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From the CDC influenza vaccine supply Q&A page:

If a few large states banned any level of thimerosal in vaccines, would the available supply of thimerosal-free vaccine be diverted to those states or would the product continue to be distributed in the current manner?

The manufacturers and distributors would have to make those decisions.
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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From the CDC:

How can you tell the difference between a cold and the flu?
Because colds and flu share many symptoms, it can be difficult (or even impossible) to tell the difference between them based on symptoms alone. Special tests that usually must be done within the first few days of illness can be carried out, when needed to tell if a person has the flu.
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland
From the CDC:

How can you tell the difference between a cold and the flu?
Because colds and flu share many symptoms, it can be difficult (or even impossible) to tell the difference between them based on symptoms alone. Special tests that usually must be done within the first few days of illness can be carried out, when needed to tell if a person has the flu.
Well, if you get the shot, your symptoms COULDN'T be the flu, then, could they? No sirree. Definitely a cold.

Anyone know anyone whose doctor actually performed a diagnostic flu test? (Other than perhaps on a hospitalized person?)
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:44 PM
 
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Thanks for the hugs!! And this is one subject I am fine talking about. I miss my Dad alot but hey, death is a part of life we cannot avoid!

Oh I was chatting with a nice but very mainstream coworker the otehr day. She had made a comment weeks early about CHOP being the best of the best and how she would never question the experts. She is so glad it is local.

So I feel her out on the flu shot. I say I am not a fan (lol). She says her family gets them yearly (including to elementary aged kids). Then she says but we somehow mid winter get a virus with all the flu symptoms (she laughs here) "isn't that crazy?" But it can't be the flu, we have no luck!

TW, my old job (5 yearsback), a smal lcompany, actually paiid a nurse to come in and vax us all! I was clueless the last time it was done (6 years back) and at last minute said OK! Last shot I ever got. The owners truly thought they were doing good and spent alot of $$ to do this.

BTW LI and PHISH: my PARENTS chiropractor (now Moms of course) is OPENLY and LOUDLY anti vax! Posters all over. hey thought he was jus ta but whacky and ignored it! Mom still does. But he hates me-openly. I loved his stance but he disredpected me terribly. I do nto know if it is b/c he did not have to educate me and I was happy to discuss it with him or what.Last visit I shareda great (now defunct) anti flu vax pamphlet with him. Many patients gave him stuff like that. He threw it on a table. It was very awkward and weird and was not pretty (he told me to never come back-used my kids as the reason-which was even worse...)
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland
Are you freaking out about the seasonal flu?
Hell YEAH!
Don'tchya know there's gonna be a flu PANDEMIC???? :

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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Old 09-02-2006, 01:01 AM
 
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http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/JABSInf...accination.doc

You don't need a password. Just close the box.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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Old 09-02-2006, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/JABSInf...accination.doc

You don't need a password. Just close the box.
Oh, thank you!


From the link, which talks about the study in the third post in this thread regarding the elderly and flu vaccination and then goes on to discuss the study in my second post regarding children and the vax:

The authors noted:
• That among those 85 years and older, the mortality rate did not change throughout the 33 influenza seasons
• That among those 65 to 74 years of age, the mortality rate remained the same since 1980
• And that the “flu-related mortality” among the elderly always remained less than 10 percent of the total number of winter deaths.

Dr. Simonsen then commented on the 1997-1998 flu season. The strains included in that season’s vaccine were totally different from those cultured in the fifty states and therefore the vaccination of over 60% of eligible elderly did not actually protect them. Yet there were approximately 5,000 fewer excess deaths in this age group than there were the following flu season, when the same percentage of people were vaccinated with the correct strains.
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