How to prepare in case of CPS visit? (non-vaxing) - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I see a visit from CPS as a very, very real threat sometime in our family's future.

Not only are we home educators, natural birthers, and tv-free, we.don't.vax! (cue scary music...)

My MIL is pretty insane and I wouldn't put it past her to make an anonymous call to CPS . She doesn't like me, is a compulsive liar and lives in a fantasy world, so anything she imagines is "real" to her. (not being snarky, it's just the sad truth)

Currently, if any friends or family ask about vaxing, we just say we're on schedule (we don't tell them what kind!). So MIL doesn't know, but I am concerned about the issue arising if CPS was to visit.

My children have been to the ped for their usual 1 and 2 wk checkups after birth. They've been EXTREMELY healthy and have gained weight appropriately without additional intervention.

As I read more and more about CPS, I'm realizing that CYA is now necessary. So what do I need to do?

- I just found a holistic ped who's comfortable with non-vaxing. Do I need to schedule regular well-visits? If so, how often?

- Do I have to file a vax exemption even though the DC won't be in school?

- Anything else I need to do?

And can I just say that IT TOTALLY SUCKS that I'm presumed guilty until I prove myself innocent with CPS!

Blessed Mama to 4 and expecting one more!
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#2 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 03:51 PM
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http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=487616 This thread will help you find your state laws. Like one MDC member wrote, "If you don't know your rights, you have no rights."

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#3 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the link, MITB!

Unfortunately the links at the child welfare website aren't working. Even when I do find actual state laws, they appear to be rather vague/arbitrary (what is "Reasonable medical care"?).

What I'm really looking for is not my specific state statutes, but what I should reasonably do (beyond understanding the law) to prepare and protect myself for the possibility of a CPS visit.

Blessed Mama to 4 and expecting one more!
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#4 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:14 PM
 
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I know this sounds strange but have the house mostly clean, just be the good mom that you are. How old are your kids? My sister had a visit from CPS because my nephew missed so much school and it went fine. she was all worried about it but nothing happened. I am sorry you have to go through this!!! I will be: for you!

BObbi
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#5 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:15 PM
 
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Okay, first off- reduce the chance they'll be called:
Cut contact with really dangerous family members. Really.
Lie as needed.

Then, IF they're called- KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.
You don't have to let them in without a warrant.
The best way to protect your rights is to exercise them- don't give them anything they don't have a warrant for, including to talking to or seeing your kids.

Exemptions are okay to have, depending on your state. They're really only for school, but sometimes it's useful to say you have one.

One other bit to know- CPS can not cross state lines.

-Angela
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#6 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Exemptions are okay to have, depending on your state. They're really only for school, but sometimes it's useful to say you have one.
-Angela
I'm in the same state as you, Angela. So I don't *need* to file an exemption since I'm home educating? Will CPS consider that a strike against me?

Can I create my own exemption, have it notarized, and keep it in my own file?

Honestly, I am opposed to filing because I just don't want the gov't knowing more about me than it already does. Who's to say the exemption file won't be used to track down non-vaxers in the future and force them to comply/remove their children? (okay, taking off my tinfoil hat now).

Blessed Mama to 4 and expecting one more!
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#7 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bobbirs View Post
I know this sounds strange but have the house mostly clean, just be the good mom that you are. How old are your kids? My sister had a visit from CPS because my nephew missed so much school and it went fine. she was all worried about it but nothing happened. I am sorry you have to go through this!!! I will be: for you!

BObbi
Thank you for the prayers, Bobbi!

I'm glad things worked out well for your sister. I guess I'm rather jaded, though, since I know SO many families who've dealt with CPS because they're homeschoolers, or have more than the usual number of children, or don't vax. The stories are pretty chilling.

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#8 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:28 PM
 
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One other bit to know- CPS can not cross state lines.
No, BUT they can & often will file what is called an "interstate compact"...basically allowing your new state to start up where they left off.

CPS is very dangerous.

If you consider fleeing a state, which I do recommend for oodles of reasons, do it IMMEDIATLY (within 24 hrs.) of their 1st contact...BEFORE they have time to see a judge. They can & often will FORCE you to stay before you even THINK to go.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#9 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:30 PM
 
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Oh, well no worries about CPS for vax status in TX right now. There's a law on the books FORBIDDING CPS from using non-vax status against you

No worries at all.

-Angela
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#10 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
There's a law on the books FORBIDDING CPS from using non-vax status against you
That's good to know and for posters to REMEMBER. Here's why:
If they find you have "neglected" your child due to vax status it does not matter where you go. Even if you go to a place, such as TX, with great laws. The previous finding WILL prevail. This is why, if you suspect SERIOUS trouble, get to a "friendly" state IMMEDIATLY...before a judge makes a ruling. Angela has informed us TX is such a place. Personally, I will file this in my long term memory.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#11 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 04:53 PM
 
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http://www.falseallegation.org/index.shtml

http://familyrightsassociation.com/c...parents_guide/

http://www.fightcps.com/

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#12 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 05:35 PM
 
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I worry about this also, but I know that I'm a good mom and I have nothing to fear from CPS.

Here is what I plan on doing if/when I'm ever confronted with CPS. "I do not vaccinate for religious reasons." I've had THREE doctors, look at me, blink, and move on. They cannot say BOO if you say the magic R word. Or else they face discrimination law suits. There are numerus bible verses on here related to vaccines. Even if you are an athiest, memorize them. LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH. Say your God commands it (they do not have to know that your God isn't necessarly the God of Abraham...not their business) in most states they cannot ask you what your religion is, or anything.

Personally, I'm Pentecostal. There is nothing in the Foursquare/Pentecostal religion about vaccines. O'well, they don't have to know that. If it becomes an issue I'll just simply say "I go to Such-and-such church because I believe in the importance of Christian fellowship and have been unable to find a church that lines up closer with my beliefs so I attend Such-and-such church for Christian fellowship and worship. Nothing more." That works because I'm not on the books as a member, nor is DH. LOL

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
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#13 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 05:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beanbean View Post
Thank you for the prayers, Bobbi!

I'm glad things worked out well for your sister. I guess I'm rather jaded, though, since I know SO many families who've dealt with CPS because they're homeschoolers, or have more than the usual number of children, or don't vax. The stories are pretty chilling.
I don't work for CPS, but because I work with children, I've worked around CPS a lot in and out of court. Most CPS workers I've known are generally well-intentioned young adults who do not have their own children. They have huge caseloads. They are also typically ignorant about the reasons families choose to stay out of the system whether it be mainstream medicine or the school system. Unfortunately, CPS has the guns behind them. What makes things really bad quickly is a CPS worker on a "I know what's best for that child" trip. To avoid this, the parents need to sound informed and know their rights.

It is true that CPS has to have a warrant to enter your home. I've seen CPS get around this by going to schools to talk with children without parents even knowing. I would definitely be cordial to the CPS worker, whether you agree or disagree with his/her presence. Be friendly and that goes a long way. Remember you are dealing with a young adult who truly believes he/she is helping children. I would also have a clean home (CPS looks for this stuff). Don't give any reason to write negative case notes.

Homeschoolers have the Home School Legal Defense Association www.hslda.org. These people are really up to speed on legal precedents and rulings, as well as CPS info.

If it helps, a vast, vast majority of CPS visits go nowhere. The average length of employment for a CPS worker is less than one year.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
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#14 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 07:26 PM
 
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if it makes you feel better and more comfortable, feel free to go to the holistic dr for "well child" check ups. then you have it on record that you've been going to have someone who is medically trained who has a record of your children's growth and development. when the kids are babies, its recommended that they go every few months, but when they get older, once a year is fine. (that's what dd's dr said.) plus, if there is some kind of medical problem you cant handle on your own, at least you'd have a familiar face that you have a relationship with who can help.

i dont think that homeschooling is that "out there" anymore. pretty much all school districts (well, at least around here) know all the "rules" for homeschooling and all the paperwork parents have to fill out. again, to CYA, you can keep copies of all the paperwork from the district in a convenient place at home. and you can always say that its for religious reasons that you homeschool. i talked to a woman who is very christian and is appalled that schools are using harry potter to get kids to enjoy reading. her girls are still young (2nd adn 3rd grades), but i'm sure this woman doesnt approve of things like evolution or how to use a condom being taught in school.

as for the natural birth, not sure if you mean that your dc were born at home or a hospital. either way, you've already CYA by taking them to the dr at 1 and 2 weeks old. i wouldnt worry about that.

tv-free, i'm sure lots of CPS workers would think that's great! as a substitute teacher, you wouldnt believe the number of elementary kids who say one of their favorite hobbies is playing video games!

its sad that CPS is called on so many non-mainstream parents, but then there's so many other parents who really need a reality check. for example, i saw an elementary school boy coming to school this morning with just a short sleve tshirt on. the temp was in the 40s. no coat, no sweatshirt. last year, i had a 6th grader who came to school hung over (maybe even still drunk) and smelling. he probably hadnt showered all week. all the teachers knew this kid drinks, smokes pot, etc. or an elementary school boy who is only given a sandwich to eat for lunch. no drink, nothing else. he's also not given a snack. (they have a midmorning snack since they have a late lunch). HELLO!?!? where is CPS for some of these kids??? oh yes, knocking on the doors of homeschoolers adn non-vaxers.... (end rant...)
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#15 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 08:07 PM
 
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I am short on time right now; but see this thread in the archives:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=98487
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#16 of 21 Old 10-23-2006, 08:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm View Post
That's good to know and for posters to REMEMBER. Here's why:
If they find you have "neglected" your child due to vax status it does not matter where you go. Even if you go to a place, such as TX, with great laws. The previous finding WILL prevail. This is why, if you suspect SERIOUS trouble, get to a "friendly" state IMMEDIATLY...before a judge makes a ruling. Angela has informed us TX is such a place. Personally, I will file this in my long term memory.
Having been to Texas 4 times, once to San Antonio & three times to Dallas, I would say it is a beautiful place to hole up and definitly on my list of places in this country to live.
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#17 of 21 Old 10-24-2006, 10:53 AM
 
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its sad that CPS is called on so many non-mainstream parents, but then there's so many other parents who really need a reality check. for example, i saw an elementary school boy coming to school this morning with just a short sleve tshirt on. the temp was in the 40s. no coat, no sweatshirt.
First, I had them called on me by an awful "teacher" at DS Headstart. I have posted about it here before, the case was immediately closed and honsestly, I did alot *wrong* in dealing with the worker. I called the school yelling at them (I had been meeting with them regarding this teacher, her threats to me, and her actions with DS). I cried, yelled. eventually composed myself. Understand, CPS was already investigating the school so they already knew alot of crap was occurign there and they were mad at parents. But vaxes never came up, only asked if my kids had Docs and their names. Never furtehr as accusations were obviously unfounded and ridiculous (logn and involved story).

As for the jacket, my DS now age 5 hates jackets. Argued today-very cold and windy, with me that he has a sweatshirt on and that is enough. Realize, I had to get that on him and his t-shirt off! I gave him his jacket, it was OFF as he entered the bus. I am sure it will be in his bookbag when he gets home. Now mind you it is not a real heavy jacket, no $$ for a winter one yet as he grew out last years. Worst comes to worst if gets too cold I will use his sisters or layers. But he will take that off too. He is in K now, so who knows by 5th grade he may be one of those slipping down to shorts and t's on the bus in January. I knew kids like that growing up, know adults who wear shorts in snow now. I know I teach him, guide him, and pray he listens when I am not there! I tell both my kids that if they are not clean, wearing jackets, etc. the school can accuse us of stuff. My 9yo gets it but thinks it is dumb. DS is nto there on the getting it yet. and he is BULLheaded! Unless a kid is shivering and crying from cold I would not think twice if he/she had no jacket in the winter when leaving/entering school or a store. BTW, I also had a woman try to start a PHYSICAL figth w/ me b/c DS hada super heacy sweater on but no jacket in a store. The walk from car to door-approximately 6 feet! Was it her business? Was he outside, unhappy, or cold? NOPE. But I was bad for letting him walk 6 feet in the cold w/ only a very heavy sweater and no jacket on. What has our world come too?
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#18 of 21 Old 10-24-2006, 03:39 PM
 
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We had to cut ties with my step-MIL and FIL (who seems to be dragged along by her every whim...). My real MIL passed away 10 days after dh and I were married and FIL married step-MIL 7 months later. He used to be a really great guy, but they have threatened to others in the community that they would call CPS on us (never to our face - step-MIL is into gossiping and spreading rumours...). It hasn't happened, but we haven't gone to their house since last Thanksgiving and don't see them around town (amazingly enough).

Cutting ties with them was the best thing we ever did

love and peace.

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#19 of 21 Old 10-27-2006, 02:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JamesMama View Post
I worry about this also, but I know that I'm a good mom and I have nothing to fear from CPS.

Here is what I plan on doing if/when I'm ever confronted with CPS. "I do not vaccinate for religious reasons." I've had THREE doctors, look at me, blink, and move on. They cannot say BOO if you say the magic R word. Or else they face discrimination law suits.

i'm wondering what makes you think that CPS workers actually play by the rules? i don't mean to sound snarky, but i am a CPS abuse survivor and the 'magic R word' got me a LOT of hostility and some extra verbal abuse. i was told, straight out, that i 'had to' tell them whatever they wanted to know about my religion if it's whats making me 'deny my child services' (the 'services' being vaxes).

and FWIW, afterward i consulted with many a lawyer in my midwestern state who let me know that i really didn't have anything to sue them on, that a judge wouldn't care.

i don't have all the answers, but i get a little saddened when i see what happened to me being advised all over the place...'oh, just say it's your religion'. well...it might work, but i don't think it's wise to advise people that it's a 'get out of hell free' card.
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#20 of 21 Old 10-27-2006, 02:29 PM
 
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I do take my kids in once a year for a well check visit just so I can show it if ever questioned. Plus, I like to know their height and weight! That is really the only reason we go!
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#21 of 21 Old 11-01-2006, 12:19 AM
 
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Childrens Services in USA must have lots of money and workers if they have the time and resources to bother about non-vaxed kids.
Really

Louise
(not in USA)
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