Sick child - should they get their vax? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay - this is not a situation I am in but another The other day I was thinkin' question

I know they say if your child has a mild illness, there is no need to delay their vaccinations. (which I wonder about anyhow) but I am really wondering if a child is truley ill, like the beginning (or middle or end) of the flu, lets say, and it's their, oh say 4 months appt. coming up and mom/dad takes them in and they get their full round of shots... aren't they at greater risk for side effects? I mean I get the principle behind ... well maybe I dont. -nevre mind what "I get"..

can someone speak to basis behind this??
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#2 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:05 AM
 
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Hmmmm.... I've never read anything that said that you should still vax even if the illness is MILD. Not even my pro-vax friends think that... where did you get that from (very curious, not snarky)?

love and peace.

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#3 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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man o man - I wish I would have kept a VIP I got when my older ones were vax'ed it said somthing like the following "even if your child has a bit of a stuffy nose do not hesitate to bring them in for their next WBV. It is important to get them checked out by the doctor and get them vaccinated on schedule" ( I recal the schedule part was really highlighted) We were Navy back then, though.. maybe that had something to do with it... (plus it was over 8 years ago).. also I know I read it in a magazine, just recently! I'll have to look it up - hopefully I didnt toss 'em all.. but also just on the news the other day they were saying the same thing! even if youre a little sick - you can still get the flu shot. now maybe that was just for the flu shot.. : I know this is a horrible post as far as referencing goes , but I'll look for some more stuff.
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#4 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:19 AM
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aren't they at greater risk for side effects?
Yes, they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phishers3
can someone speak to basis behind this??
The reason behind this is higher compliance rates and higher percentage of vaccinated 'on schedule' in the practice. Nothing else. Plus, vaccinated on current schedule children are so likely to have 'mild illnesses' at any given appointment time, that if they stop vaccinating mildly unwell children, they might as well close the shop :

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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
I've never read anything that said that you should still vax even if the illness is MILD.
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/recs/contraindications.pdf

According to this, all vaccines are supposed to be administered with mild acute illness with or without low grade fever, low grade fever with or without mild illness, mild diarrhea with or without low grade fever, mild otitis media with or without low grade fever, etc...
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#5 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:37 AM
 
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I have hard copies of all the VIS sheets along with instructions for providers Thanks CDC!

Chicken Pox - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should usually wait until they recover before getting chicken pox vaccine

DTAP- Children with minor illnesses such as a cold may be vaccinated. But children who are moderately or severely ill should usually wait until they recover before getting DTaP

Hep A - Anyone who is moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover. Ask your doctor or nurse. People with a mild illness can usually get the vaccine.

Hep B - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover to receive the hep B vaccine.

HIB - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover to receive the HIB vaccine.

Influenza - If you have a fever or are severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled, you should probably wait until you recover before getting influenza vaccine. Talk to your doctor or nurse about whether to reschedule the vaccination.

MMR - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover to receive the MMR vaccine.

Meningococcal - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover. Ask your doctor or nurse. People with a mild illness can usually get the vaccine.

PPV (pneumococcal polysaccharide) - doesn't say anything about illness

Pneumococcal conjugate - Children with minor illnesses such as a cold may be vaccinated. But children who are moderately or severely ill should usually wait until they recover before getting the vaccine.

Polio - People who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should probably wait until they recover before getting the polio vaccine. People with minor illnesses such as a cold may be vaccinated.

Rabies, typhoid and anthrax don't say anything about current illness either.



Hope that helps, I don't vaccinate but I wouldn't go by what the vis sheet says or what a doctor or nurse says either. Common sense just tells me why would you assault the immune system further when it's already compromised, know what I mean?

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#6 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hope that helps, I don't vaccinate but I wouldn't go by what the vis sheet says or what a doctor or nurse says either. Common sense just tells me why would you assault the immune system further when it's already compromised, know what I mean?
Well this is the basis for my random though... so yeah I kwym thanks a ton!

and fwiw we are DUFN = delaying until further notice
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#7 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 06:01 AM
 
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Yeah the little information sheets the peds give us every time we go say that vaccines shouldn't be delayed for minor illnesses. Poor babies. I don't believe they're hoping to disguise vaccine reactions by vaccinating already sick kids, but it does give them one more easy out when there's a reaction. They can just blame it on the illness. (But again, I dont think they encourage vaccinating sick kids for that reason. I just think it's sad that this probably increases the number of kids whose reactions are blamed on something else.)
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#8 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 06:08 AM
 
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It is sad. and who exactly defines minor, moderately or severally ill anyway? It seems like I've heard other parents say they took their child in for a sick baby visit and the ped did the next vaxes on schedule just cause it was convenient. If your kid is sick enough to warrant a visit to the ped (truly necessary or not) you'd think they shouldn't receive any shots while they were there.

The one time I took my youngest in to be seen cause I thought he might have an inguinal hernia the ped pressured me like crazy to give him as many vaccines as she could... of course I didn't and stood up for my son BUT I have no doubt that had I taken him in because he was really sick she would have done the same thing, especially since she was beyond shocked to find out he'd never been seen or had any shots. and she probably knew I wouldn't be back again so why not try and inject as many as possible. ugh!

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#9 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 02:43 PM
 
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This business of vaxing sick children is one reason for my deep distrust of the whole system. Remember vaxes are tested (to the extent they are tested) on healthy children. There is no scientific data on giving vaxes to sick children. There is no scientific basis for this practice whatsoever.

The sound you hear is me grinding my teeth and growling.
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#10 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 03:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
This business of vaxing sick children is one reason for my deep distrust of the whole system.

Compliance is all that matters.

From the minutes of the ACIP meeting (October 2005) discussing the newly licensed rotavirus vaccine:

Dr. Jim Alexander, of NIP, reported the Working Group’s debate over age at vaccination. They discussed how the tight time limits could miss vaccination opportunities, which is a concern. Dr. Neuzil agreed. She would not make moderate fever a relative contraindication in a two-month-old, because the infant could potentially not return until after the time frame, resulting in no vaccination at all.
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#11 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:37 PM
 
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My dd has been vax'd on schedule (except for two) and I NEVER allowed her to have shots if she was sick. However, I know lots of people who think nothing of getting their kids vax'd even when really, really sick.

(And no flames for me please. I'm reading up more and more on vaxing and leaning towards selective/delayed for this new babe.)

Mama of three.
 
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#12 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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Good for you Erin. I'm always glad to hear that people don't let their doctors bully them into doing things like vaxes on sick babies.
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#13 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 06:01 PM
 
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My gosh vaccination is such a sensitive subject... I started vaccinating my first and stopped in the middle when we saw him react badly to it. He would get dark circles around his eyes and look sick for two weeks! We didn't vaccinate the rest of our kids and don't plan to.

I cannot imagine vaccinating a sick child! I'm glad doctors won't force it. It should always be the parents decision when and if to vaccinate.
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#14 of 24 Old 11-16-2006, 06:04 PM
 
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FYI,

All the vaccine information statements can be found here,

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/vis/


IMPORTANT: By Federal law, all vaccine providers must give patients, or their parents or legal representatives, the appropriate Vaccine Information Statement (VIS) whenever a vaccination is given.

Some have been updated,

Hepatitis A (Updated 6/15/06)
HPV (Updated 9/5/06)
Influenza (Updated 7/5/06)
Meningococcal (Updated 10/7/05)
MMRV (Updated 9/15/05)
Multi-Vaccine VIS (Updated 9/15/05)
Rabies (Updated 1/25/06)
Rotavirus (Updated 4/13/06)
Tdap (Updated 7/12/06)
Varicella (Updated 9/5/06)
Zoster (Updated 10/13/06)
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#15 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You say by law and I get what that means , but what if they don't? Hand the VIS out that is.
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#16 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 04:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by phishers3 View Post
You say by law and I get what that means , but what if they don't? Hand the VIS out that is.
I've wondered that myself. We are military, so dd sees the base peds at the MTF. They never even offered us a VIS the two times she got vaccines (we started out s & d). We never saw one at all. You'd think that of all the places where docs should be following the law, a military clinic would be at the top of the list. Of course, they probably just think they're above the law. : I can't wait till DH gets out.
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#17 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 04:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Plummeting View Post
Yeah the little information sheets the peds give us every time we go say that vaccines shouldn't be delayed for minor illnesses. Poor babies. I don't believe they're hoping to disguise vaccine reactions by vaccinating already sick kids, but it does give them one more easy out when there's a reaction. They can just blame it on the illness. (But again, I dont think they encourage vaccinating sick kids for that reason. I just think it's sad that this probably increases the number of kids whose reactions are blamed on something else.)
Hmmmm.... I guess my ignorance of this practice comes from my never having taken dd to a well-baby-visit That really makes me sick that they tell parents that

love and peace.

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#18 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 04:49 AM
 
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Ive heard never to vax even if they have a slightly runny nose : Maybe that's just my doctor though, she vaxes but doesn't seem to be that 'big' on it iykwim.
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#19 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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Have a look at this:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...n/BullWHO2.jpg

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#20 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 05:42 PM
 
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I'd still be scared to do it while the child is ill.
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#21 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 07:09 PM
 
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The point is that anyone who says something like that, is more interested in the reputation of a vaccine, than the well-being of the patient concerned.

Wouldn't you think someone as sick as that would have enough for their body to deal with than a vaccine?

Wouldn't a vaccine be the last thing that should be on the mind of a medical person when looking at someone in a life-threatening situation???

That statement above IMO is appalling.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#22 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 08:20 PM
 
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Wow that IS weird!
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#23 of 24 Old 11-17-2006, 09:04 PM
 
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I have an old Good Housekeeping baby care book and it states that you should hold off vaccinating if the child has recently come off antibiotics. Where'd they get that from? Why would make that recommendation if it wasn't an issue at one time?

Cut to today -- can you imagine if they deferred immunization because a child was on or coming off antibiotics . . . the entire immunization program would be "compromised."

Forget the potential impact on the child's immune system and potential for adverse reactions . . . all that matters is compliance.
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#24 of 24 Old 11-18-2006, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by phishers3 View Post
Okay - this is not a situation I am in but another The other day I was thinkin' question

I know they say if your child has a mild illness, there is no need to delay their vaccinations. (which I wonder about anyhow) but I am really wondering if a child is truley ill, like the beginning (or middle or end) of the flu, lets say, and it's their, oh say 4 months appt. coming up and mom/dad takes them in and they get their full round of shots... aren't they at greater risk for side effects? I mean I get the principle behind ... well maybe I dont. -nevre mind what "I get"..

can someone speak to basis behind this??
Dear pishers3,
vaccination amounts to an artificial infection. When a sick child is vaccinated it therefore has to deal with two infections at the same time, which -
depending on the state of its immune system - may present it with an overwhelming situation.

Germany suffered 10 outbreaks of smallpox after Wold War 2, from 1947 until 1974. About 100 people in total were affected, virtually all of them fully vaccinated, and 10 people died, only one of them unvaccinated - and five of them, although counted as smallpox deaths in official statistics, were actually killed by smallpox vaccinations they received when already infected with and incubating smallpox. The toxicity that overwhelmed them as a result of the vaccination caused them to die painful deaths while bleeding from all orifices of the body.

The medical profession however nowadays appears to disregard all contraindications and to vaccinate regardless. Personally, I strongly recommend to never vaccinate a sick child or a child which has suffered a reaction of whatever sort to a previous vaccine. I know of severeal children in New Zealand who reacted to vaccines but were revaccinated regardless and then ended up with severe brain damage as a result.

I however also strongly advise against vaccinating healthy children. Why inject a healthy child with toxic metals and foreign proteins in the form of minute particles of viral and bacterial matter, bits of aborted foetal tissue, monkey kidneys, chick embryo etc? Why not keep your family's blood unpolluted and have faith in the body's natural immunity? One of the worst aspects of vaccination is that we are being turned into a population of whimps and morons totally dependent on the medical-pharmaceutical establishment (which is what they are aiming for and want).

I suggest you read all the books by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn MD you can get your hands on, and especially his classic "How to Raise a Healthy Child". Children don't need vaccines, they need parents who take responsiblity for their children's health by not allowing them to be vaccinated. How to raise a healthy child will go a long way toward deprogramming the insidious propaganda we have all been subjected to. I cringe when I remember how I used to get my anti-tetanus shot every ten years! Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't accept a vaccine if I was offered a million dollars.

My son - unvaccinated through no fault on my part (his mother was smart enough to follow her intuition which told her that sticking needles into her baby and injecting all manner of filth into it under the pretext of disease prevention was not a good idea) is going to celebrate his 33 birthday in January. He has survived the many so-called "vaccine-preventable diseases" (there is of course no such thing) without any problem and enjoys robust health.

Official statistics clearly show that vaccines have never prevented any diseases. It's all a myth -much like the fairy story's emperor's new clothes, woven for him by two crooks to extract the king's wealth from him without having to deliver the promised goods.

Once everyone wakes up to the facts of vaccination, the whole sordid industry is going to collapse, for everyone's benefit (except perhaps for the people who make money from vaccinations, but even they would benefit because it would provide them with the opportunity to earn an honest living).

I hope this is of some help. The penny is not likely to drop immediately - it took me quite a while to recognise the truth, even when it stared me in the face.

All the best,

Capricorn
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