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-   -   does the flu vax "prevent" pneumonia? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/561414-does-flu-vax-prevent-pneumonia.html)

runes 11-17-2006 06:00 PM

i've been trying to educate my fil regarding the flu vax. at first i thought i could get to him regarding the vaccine ingredients angle, and he was most displeased to learn about what is in them.

however, i believe his doctor is putting the pressure on him, as he came back this morning with a reply stating that he HAD to get the vax because he is highly susceptible to pneumonia, and that he MUST have the vax and take his chances.

:

i don't want to bombard him with a ton of info, maybe just one or two sentences and that's it, then i'll drop it (this year) because i tried my best.

can anyone help me try to hit a home run here please? i was thinking about using the aluminum-alzheimer's link (his father was just diagnosed with early stage alzheimers very recently). thanks so much!!

thefragile7393 11-17-2006 09:13 PM

There was a pneumonia shot.....not sure if there is now. If the flu shot prevented pneumonia they wouldn't make a pneumonia shot. Oh, okay they probably would still make one....

This is an area I'm still working on.....so I can't offer too much. They DO like to target the elderly and parents of children with their fear-mongering though....very sad.

Spy 11-17-2006 09:29 PM

Why not claim that any vaccine prevents death? Vaccinate or die - priceless slogan :

Vaccines only work on bugs. Supposed to work, at least, by design. (or even toxins, some of them). The diseases named after the affected organ (as opposed to the ones named after the bug) - pneumonia, tonsillitis, meningitis, cervical cancer etc, etc... - can not be prevented by any vaccine for a certain bug - by definition. Simply because any number of viruses or bacteria (or, in fact, other things) are capable to lead to these diseases. If I am prone to pneumonia, I will get it regardless of the three flu viruses I am allegedly 'immune to' this season. I will get it from 'flu like illness', any virus under the sun, strep, hib, pneumococcal, meningococcal Z... anything. You can not vaccinate for the entire Earth microflora, you'll die from poisoning in the process

Pandora114 11-17-2006 09:41 PM

Ok, let's SAY that your FIL Gets the Vax. and let's SAY that the vax is acctually engineered for the EXACT flu strain going around this year (highly improbable acctually)

Well, IF it prevents him from getting the flu, it will prevent his immune system from being weakened by Said Influenza virus, therefore the Pnumococcal bacterium wont have an easy time establishing itself in his lung tissue.

Compromised Immune system = Secondary infection, which Pnumonia almost always is.

The BEST bet to prevent Pnumonia (which is a bacterial infection more often than not, there is viral pnumonia but it's got a rather hight mortality rate) Is to keep your immune system healthy. And ironically, a healthy immune system doesn't need a flu vax.

Tell him to learn to wash his hands.

mamakay 11-17-2006 09:52 PM

Well, the flu vax used in America isn't adjuvanted with aluminum. (or anything else).

But...the flu vax doesn't work...or works so rarely it can't be demonstrated in randomized controlled trials or show up in metaanalyses.

Have your fil read this:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7574/912

runes 11-17-2006 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora114 View Post
Ok, let's SAY that your FIL Gets the Vax. and let's SAY that the vax is acctually engineered for the EXACT flu strain going around this year (highly improbable acctually)

Well, IF it prevents him from getting the flu, it will prevent his immune system from being weakened by Said Influenza virus, therefore the Pnumococcal bacterium wont have an easy time establishing itself in his lung tissue.

Compromised Immune system = Secondary infection, which Pnumonia almost always is.

The BEST bet to prevent Pnumonia (which is a bacterial infection more often than not, there is viral pnumonia but it's got a rather hight mortality rate) Is to keep your immune system healthy. And ironically, a healthy immune system doesn't need a flu vax.

Tell him to learn to wash his hands.
i did.

quoted from my email i sent to him last night:

Quote:
The best way to prevent contracting the flu is to practice good health and hygiene, nothing that’s not good for you anyways. Eat well, get plenty of rest, stay hydrated, wash your hands frequently and try not to touch your face/eyes/nose with your hands after coming into contact with surfaces when out and about. Besides having some Vitamin C and Echinacea tincture on hand, there is a homeopathic remedy called Oscillococcinum that is very effective in thwarting the onset of flu. The caveat is that you have to start taking these supplements at the onset of symptoms, so when you feel that tired achiness coming on is best. Both M and I have used all of these things with much success over the course of the past few flu seasons, and remember that in the past, we both worked with children in the schools which is quite the breeding ground for a contagious viral illness such as the flu. You don’t even need to go to a health food store to get these, I’ve seen Oscillo at our local Rite Aid. The best form of Vitamin C is sodium ascorbate powder, but it can be hard to find and quite $$ so the next best thing is Emergen-C powdered drinks, which I also see at our local supermarkets, drugstores although the best price I’ve seen for it is at Trader Joe’s of all places. As far as Echinacea, it does come in several different forms including tablets but the most effective is the tincture of the herb in alcohol, for which you may have to take a trip to a health food store or Whole Foods for. The trick with Echinacea is that you don’t take it all the time, only when you feel that rundown feeling, and you must dose yourself consistently and frequently for a few days. I can get you the recommended adult dosing schedule if you’re interested.
doesn't help that this family has a case of "doctors as deities-itis" so it's my word against the almighty md's.:

i think i need to put my copy of just a little prick on our coffee table whenever he comes to visit. you know, a little light reading.

thanks everyone!!

box_of_rain 11-18-2006 11:32 AM

Interesting article (posted by Mamakay) all around, but I found this to be particularly interesting:

Quote:
People for whom vaccination is recommended in the United States1
People aged 65 or more
Patients in institutions who have chronic medical conditions
Adults and children with chronic disorders of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems (including asthma but excluding hypertension)
Adults and children who have been treated in hospital in the preceding 12 months for a range of conditions (for example, diabetes or haemoglobinopathy) Adults and children with conditions that compromise respiratory function or handling of infected secretions Children aged 6 months to 18 years being treated with aspirin
Women who are pregnant during the influenza "season"
Children aged 6-59 months
Adults aged 50-64 years
Carers and household contacts (including children) of those in the above risk categories and of children aged 0-59 months
Healthcare workers
So Who does that leave?? Doesn't appear that anyone is safe without a flu shot. Hmmmm. : :


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