Whooping Cough Concerns.... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I posted this in the Health & Healing Boards as well

Hello to everyone. First off, my name is Julie. I'm a married mother of 2. Homeschooling our dd, 11, and our ds is 3. DS was bf and has never been vaxed for anything.

I have always had an underlying fear of whooping cough. DS in very prone to croup and has had it 4 times. This is the only time he's sick. A year ago he had it (croup) and on the same day, he'd gotten a haircut, which he despises, so he'd cried quite a bit that day during the haircut. I think this added to his croup being so severe that night. (swelling his larynx more) He started wheezing and salivating and was tensing more and more, so we brought him to the er. They said his oxygen level was good, gave him a bt and we took him home and treated him here. I know the night air probably improved it too.

The reason I'm talking about croup is because I'm concerned that his airway may be narrower (the reoccuring croup). Would he suffer more if he got whooping cough?

I've educated myself on Vit. C therapy for Pertussis and I'm prepared for it, should he ever get it. Just scared.

Last night, I was watching Miami Ink on TLC and a woman got a tattoo of her son, who'd died 5 years ago when he was 2. She said he'd choked to death from whooping cough. She still felt extreme sadness and guilt. They never said whether or not he was vaxed, regardless, he died at 2. I was under the impression that older babies and toddlers could handle this disease. This worried me more.

I guess I'm just asking for a little support or experience relating to this. Sorry so long.

Thanks.
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#2 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:10 PM
 
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I saw that same episode of Miami Ink. DH and I both looked at each other after the segment was over, and I know he was thinking about our unvaxed DS.

I don't have any personal experience to share, just wanted to give you a hug.
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#3 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much for your reply. Did you have a sinking feeling when she said that was how he died? I'm so glad someone else saw this. It really hit home. I just wish they'd given a little more information on it.

I know I need to just relax, but when it concerns your child's life, it's hard to.

Thanks again.

Julie
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#4 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:27 PM
 
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I saw it, I'm sure there had to be some other underlying health issues which made the immune system weak to start with.
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#5 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:30 PM
 
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Okay deep breaths.......That was a tv show. I don't know if previous bouts of Croup makes Whooping Cough worse. What I do know is that last winter all 5 of my sister's completely immunized children got Whooping Cough. That is when the doctor told her it wasn't unusual for immunized children to get Whooping Cough. : My sister has one child that had many many bouts with Croup when she was a baby. Whooping Cough didn't see to affect her worse than the other children but then she was older and in grade school. The bigger the child the bigger the airway so I would reason the less risk there is for complications. I hope someone else can give you a more concrete answer. I understand being concerned about your little getting Whooping Cough, I think the vaccine is not very affective in preventing it though.
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#6 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:31 PM
 
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What kind of show is it? I don't watch TV at all, so please inform me.

Was it a reality show or some sitcome?

WC is worst in kids under 6 mo. and can be severe in toddler but is hardly so severe that it is fatal in otherwise healthy children.

Also the wc vaccine is basically worthless since in most wc epidemics most kids are in fact fully vaccinated.

Now they are pushing wc vaccine for grown ups because there is no way to prevent it with vaccines in kids. (It won't work in grown ups either IMO.)
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#7 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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My Ds 4 and my Ds 18m. and partner just got over whooping cough a month ago. Don't feel guilty for not vaxing because my son whose 4 still got it even though he was vaxed for it. He got it as severe as my 18m. old. We do everything we can to do the best for our kids- you must feel confident in your decisions.

Me, my Husband and three little Boys! 7, 5 and 7 1/2 months! Life is good!
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#8 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay deep breaths.......That was a tv show. I don't know if previous bouts of Croup makes Whooping Cough worse. What I do know is that last winter all 5 of my sister's completely immunized children got Whooping Cough. That is when the doctor told her it wasn't unusual for immunized children to get Whooping Cough. : My sister has one child that had many many bouts with Croup when she was a baby. Whooping Cough didn't see to affect her worse than the other children but then she was older and in grade school. The bigger the child the bigger the airway so I would reason the less risk there is for complications. I hope someone else can give you a more concrete answer. I understand being concerned about your little getting Whooping Cough, I think the vaccine is not very affective in preventing it though.
No, there's no way he'll be vaxed. That's not going to happen. I just needed to share this with people who had similar situations to mine. The majority of our community is vaccinated. I'm kind of an alien here.

I'm glad to know that your neice that'd had the croup bouts didn't react worse to the wc.

Thank you for your help.

How do you get so many avatars on your sig?
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#9 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What kind of show is it? I don't watch TV at all, so please inform me.

Was it a reality show or some sitcome?

WC is worst in kids under 6 mo. and can be severe in toddler but is hardly so severe that it is fatal in otherwise healthy children.
It's a show that is on The Learning Channel ( a partner of the discovery channel) It's about a Miami tatoo shop. Each episode shows different customers coming in for tatoos and the stories and reasons behind the tatoos they want. This particular lady wanted a tatoo of her son that had died when he was 2 years old. She said he'd choked when he had whooping cough, was brought to the ER and passed away. He was 2! This was 5 years ago.
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#10 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:41 PM
 
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Just remember that there are only about 20 deaths a year from WC, and most of them are in kids under 6 months...and this is a disease for which the vaccine does not work very well at all. It's probably the second least effective vaccine out there, with the flu vax coming in first place.

So while it does happen that older kids can die from WC...it's very very very very rare.
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#11 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by crazymom03 View Post
My Ds 4 and my Ds 18m. and partner just got over whooping cough a month ago. Don't feel guilty for not vaxing because my son whose 4 still got it even though he was vaxed for it. He got it as severe as my 18m. old. We do everything we can to do the best for our kids- you must feel confident in your decisions.
Can you tell us how it was? Did you ever have to go the hospital or was it less severe?
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#12 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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A year or two ago there was a thread about a gov web site for movie makers about vac preventable diseases. It had good scare tactics in it.

Maybe somebody will have a link to it :
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#13 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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What kind of show is it? I don't watch TV at all, so please inform me.

Was it a reality show or some sitcome?

WC is worst in kids under 6 mo. and can be severe in toddler but is hardly so severe that it is fatal in otherwise healthy children.

Also the wc vaccine is basically worthless since in most wc epidemics most kids are in fact fully vaccinated.

Now they are pushing wc vaccine for grown ups because there is no way to prevent it with vaccines in kids. (It won't work in grown ups either IMO.)

its a reality show about a tattoo shop.
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#14 of 26 Old 11-21-2006, 11:56 PM
 
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Can you tell us how it was? Did you ever have to go the hospital or was it less severe?
I will tell you how it was with my three cousins. They were ca 4, 5, and 7 or 8 at the time they had it. I played with them but never got it.

Anyway, their mom told them when they have to cough to go outside. I remember it was sort of cool. Must have been in late Fall or very early Spring?

Anyway, all I remember is playing and not noticing anything unless one started to cough. The child would run outside, cough their head off (turn blue), spit up at the end and come back inside and continue to play. The first couple times I ran outside with my cousin who was the same age as I was that's how I know.

I was also about 5 or 6, and it did not strike me as anything so severe.

They did not use any medicine back then (50+ yrs ago). The cool outside air seemed to work best. I do remember that. It think it lasted for along time. Maybe all winter? But the cough waned to where they only coughed maybe two or three times a day? It was not such a big deal.

My mother said in her days kids came to school with wc. Same thing, they had to go outside when they started to cough.
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#15 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by momto l&a View Post
A year or two ago there was a thread about a gov web site for movie makers about vac preventable diseases. It had good scare tactics in it.

Maybe somebody will have a link to it :
Here it is:

http://www2a.cdc.gov/communication/e...nment_tips.asp

Are you planning on writing a sitcom? There is everything you want. The CDC practically writes it for you.
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#16 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:03 AM
 
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the cold air helps loosen the mucous or something like that, the extremes of temps.......cold or steam
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#17 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:27 AM
 
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Hmm, I didn't know the cold air could help.

About the 2yo who died from wc, it's very sad, but if he died because of vomitting during a coughing fit, who is to say he wouldn't have been prone to choking during any other illness that can cause vomitting?

I think in a case like this it's important to look at the whole picture. He threw up because of the whooping cough, but he died from choking on his vomit - not specifically from the whooping cough or even not being able to clear the mucous. This particular complication strikes me as one that could happen with any illness...

Just my take on it. I've never actually seen an episode of Miami Ink, just previews.
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#18 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I will tell you how it was with my three cousins. They were ca 4, 5, and 7 or 8 at the time they had it. I played with them but never got it.

Anyway, their mom told them when they have to cough to go outside. I remember it was sort of cool. Must have been in late Fall or very early Spring?

Anyway, all I remember is playing and not noticing anything unless one started to cough. The child would run outside, cough their head off (turn blue), spit up at the end and come back inside and continue to play. The first couple times I ran outside with my cousin who was the same age as I was that's how I know.

I was also about 5 or 6, and it did not strike me as anything so severe.

They did not use any medicine back then (50+ yrs ago). The cool outside air seemed to work best. I do remember that. It think it lasted for along time. Maybe all winter? But the cough waned to where they only coughed maybe two or three times a day? It was not such a big deal.

My mother said in her days kids came to school with wc. Same thing, they had to go outside when they started to cough.
Wow Gitti, that is so interesting. I've never seen anything like that before. It just sounds so normal. I guess when you read the oodles and oodles of material on these diseases, you get such a negative picture of them. You reminded me of when I was growing up. We were so limited to this kind of information and we just went with the flow. I think sometimes maybe knowing so much can make things seem worse than they really are.
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#19 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hmm, I didn't know the cold air could help.

About the 2yo who died from wc, it's very sad, but if he died because of vomitting during a coughing fit, who is to say he wouldn't have been prone to choking during any other illness that can cause vomitting?

I think in a case like this it's important to look at the whole picture. He threw up because of the whooping cough, but he died from choking on his vomit - not specifically from the whooping cough or even not being able to clear the mucous. This particular complication strikes me as one that could happen with any illness...

Just my take on it. I've never actually seen an episode of Miami Ink, just previews.
That's the part I didn't understand. How did he choke? They didn't elaborate. Is that the way a child would choke if they had wc? I was assuming that she meant he kind of suffocated, but I guess she wouldn't have said choked (2 different things).

Miami Ink is a neat show. I like to hear the stories about why people get their tatoos. (I myself don't have any) The ones that do the tatooing are truly talented artists. Some of their work is amazing. (Sorry, got off topic).
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#20 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 12:56 AM
 
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You know, sometimes awful, freak things happen that no one can explain. There are hundreds of thousands of cases of WC in the US every year and very few deaths. Statistically, your child is about 40 times more likely to die in a house fire than of whooping cough, but I'm sure that, beyond taking common sense precautions, you don't obsess about house fires every day. KWIM? I've not heard of kids who are prone to croup having more problems with WC. Even if your DS does have unusually small airways, they're still much larger than those of the average 8-month-old, and WC wouldn't be dangerous for most children of that age.

My DD had it starting at just after 5.5 months. It lasted until maybe just after 7 months. Not only did we not have to go to the ER for it, she was so NOT sick that when I took her in for her 6 month WBV and asked the doc if she might have WC, the doc said that there was no way - she was just too healthy, her lungs were too clear, etc. She said she had no idea what the cough could be, but that she was probably choking when she nursed and that triggered a cough. She didn't even culture her because she was so healthy. We therefore went about our daily business, since the doc reassured us nothing was wrong, and shortly thereafter there were a few kids in our circle with WC. I figure DD gave it to them, because the symptoms were exactly the same, only their doctors were slightly more intelligent and diagnosed them. No one had to go to the ER at all, even though one was a newborn. It's really a longer story than that - I didn't even realize what had happened until later, when talking to the other parents, but the point is that no one was seriously ill at all.
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#21 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You're right. I know I'm over reacting, but you know when something's bothering you............... It's really helped to hear all of your stories and advice.
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#22 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 01:23 AM
 
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my older 2 had wc last winter. My 3rd we could not seem to infect, she was still nursing, so I figure she must have been immune. It wasn't that bad. My oldest had a really hard croupy cough as a 1 yr old, it was scarier than WC! He seems to have a touch of asthma (runs in the family...) and he did get WC slightly worse than his sister, and coughed longer. Alltogether my son was sick for 6 weeks, my dd for 4. It was much like Gitti described, they didn't feel sick and I could hardly slow them down. Every once in a while, one would erupt into coughing for 2 minutes, sometimes cough up something, then go back to playing....it's weird.
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#23 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 02:46 AM
 
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You're right. I know I'm over reacting, but you know when something's bothering you............... It's really helped to hear all of your stories and advice.
You are over-reacting because the medical profession has, over the years, put mothers in a pot of cold water, and gently turned up the heat and par-boiled their brains

It's called conditioning.

Hey, I bet you in 40 years, they will have a vaccine for the common cold, and we will all be told that you can get encephalitis and die from that too, if we don't have the vaccine.

Sure, whooping cough isn't crash hot as a disease for under 6 months old, but you know what?

Today, I read an article in the Lancet (June 10 - June 16, 2006 "Recent Developments in pertussis" by Natasha S. Crowcroft, Richard G Pebody.)

I reckon parents should insist their doctor gets them a copy of this article. Betcha they won't.

Let me share some gems with you
Quote:
Experts still debate basic characteristics of the disease
Well, hello? Why might that be? Don't they know everything?

Quote:
To what extent does herd immunity exist?
:

Now, here's an understatement:

Quote:
Our understanding of duration of immunity after natural infection and vaccination and the degree to which these are affected by exposure to circulating Bordetella is incomplete. The relation between antibody and proection is not straightforward, with no particular serological correlate of protection.. little is known about the role of cell-mediated immunity, but it is essential for recovery from natural infection and in long-term protective immunity
However, they did find a correlate in terms of anti-pertussis toxin IgG or IgA to be use to diagnose saying this:

Quote:
A single high titre of anti-pertussis toxin IgG has good predictive value for current infection, with sensitivity of 76% and speicificity of 99% for diagnosis of actue pertussis. Concentration of anti-pertussis toxin IgG fell below the defined cut-off on average about 4.5 months from infection, and in most patients (82%) within 1 year
So can someone actually show me please, where are these studies that show revaccinating all these adolescents and adults is going to actually WORK, when they know so little about something as old as pertussis?

Don't you sometimes feel that they are flying blindfold on a guestimate from a crystal ball?


Oh... and there was one amusing comment about the vaccination of adolescents and adults and it said:

Quote:
Unfortunately vaccine manufacturers have funded both (studies that called for lots of adult boosters ~ my addition)with obvious potential for conflict of interest.
No kidding???!!!!!!!!!!!

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#24 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 03:06 AM
 
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Ahhhhh! A Vaccine Thread is never complete without a comment from MT,,,, at least not for me.
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#25 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 03:24 AM
 
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So can someone actually show me please, where are these studies that show revaccinating all these adolescents and adults is going to actually WORK, when they know so little about something as old as pertussis?
Well it worked the first time didn't it? The vax was introduced...and walah...pertussis quit being diagnosed.
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#26 of 26 Old 11-22-2006, 03:29 AM
 
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You're right. I know I'm over reacting, but you know when something's bothering you............... It's really helped to hear all of your stories and advice.
I wasn't trying to be mean about it. I hope it didn't sound that way. I worried constantly about pertussis for the first several months of her life. Then when the cough actually started, I listened to the online clip and about had a heart attack, because it was the same cough. Her 6 month WBV was already scheduled anyway and she didn't seem sick, so I just waited (it was only a week after the cough started). When the doc said it wasn't pertussis, rather than argue with her like I should have, I just accepted it because I really couldn't believe that the big thing I'd been living in absolute terror of could possibly be so harmless. And you know, in that regard what the medical establishment has done to us is dangerous. By convincing us and themselves that pertussis is a horrible, deadly disease, they've been missing the diagnosis for years. Because of that, people like me will continue on with their daily lives, not staying away from the tiny or less healthy infants that really could be harmed by it. Looking back, I really can't believe how willing I was to accept such a stupid diagnosis (or lack thereof, really) just because I'd been led to believe pertussis was so life-threatening.
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