Talk To Me About The Measles And Tetanus...Doc Has Me Worried - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok we went to the pedi today and she really pushed for the measles and tetanus shots. I haven't done all my research yet, but knew enough to discuss how the mumps was designed to protect males, and rubella for pregnant women. However, she said that if I don't plan on vax'ng to move out of Southern California (which only makes me want to move more than I already do). She said that Tetanus is in our soil and really scared me about the Measles. Oh and she said if I ever travel she needs the Polio vax.
Please give me some info so I can feel better....Thanks!
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#2 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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Well, they do vaccinate in Mexico, so I'm not sure why you're in so much more danger living near Mexico than living somewhere else. That's racist bullsh*t, IMO. Mexican people are not inherently dirty and/or diseased and thinking they are is an uninformed opinion. Besides, it's not like the border is some kind of invisible forcefield capable of keeping out disease. If Mexican people were likely to spread disease to what your doctor apparently considers the "cleaner" Americans, then we'd already be witnessing it. If she claims it's vaccines protecting us all, then I wonder why she thinks all the 0 to 11-month-old infants too young to be vaccinated at all (less than 2 months) and too young to be fully vaccinated for things like polio (less than 6 months) and too young to be at all vaccinated for measles (less than 12 months) aren't dropping dead breathing all the air those Mexicans are exhaling. It's not like kids too young to be vaccinated for measles have some magical protection that prevents them from catching it until after the age the schedule calls for them to be vaccinated. How would that work, anyway? Your doctor is either ignorant or lying and she's using racist stereotypes to further her agenda. I wouldn't trust her.
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#3 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 05:37 PM
 
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First of all, I think it is very low for your doctor to use scaremongering to get you to comply. What is wrong with doctors nowadays?

Do not take this personal because it is not directed against you. This doctor makes her money off vaccinating little kids and knows very little about the diseases and even less about the vaccine.

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Originally Posted by shannyshan View Post
Ok we went to the pedi today and she really pushed for the measles and tetanus shots.
Measles is a harmless childhood disease. When I was growing up everybody had it and my school was closed every so often because so many kids had the virus. I know at least one time that I was sent over to the neighbors house because I was supposed to get the virus that they had in order to 'get it over with' and be back to health when school would reopen. No one feared measles. And I have to say out of all my school friends not one child was ever missing when school reopened.

I raised three kids and we never worried about measles. After all, we are not starving to death like kids in Africa, we don't drink filthy water and we don't live in the street. If we lived in Africa, we still would not be afraid unless we were living under those conditions I mentioned. (Then we would not vaccinate either since that would certainly be the last straw for an already weak child.)

Measles is a virus and before they had the vaccine the CDC said they will never develop a vaccine for measles because of the disease being so benign.

On the other hand, measles is a very useful disease in children. They build a super immune system after having gone through measles. In my generation, when a child was on dialysis, the hospital encouraged the parents to get the child naturally infected with the measles virus because they saw a tremendous improvement in the child's condition.

Other benefits of measles are well documented. Children with eczema often are relieved of any signs of the condition after they've had measles. I can't remember what else off hand.

My own grandson was vaccinated for measles and a week later he broke out with the disease. Why would we want that? If a child should get measles, he should get it naturally. That was the last vaccine my grandson ever got. He was around ca 15 mo. then and he is 9 yrs. old now. That was also the last well visit to a ped for him. LOL

Now tetanus does not pick one plot of land or area in a country. Tetanus is everywhere, but only the spores. Let me give you a link to Tetanus because you really should get informed and inform your ped should you ever go back to her again. No child dies of tetanus. Your ped has NEVER seen a child raised with Western values die of tetanus. I don't know her, but I feel so confident, that I can say that. I know quite a few docs and none have ever seen a patient with tetanus let alone one die of the poisons.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=318926



I have three grandchildren and two are completely unvaccinated. the oldest got some vaccines and none since. Our whole family has done a lot of research and we would not take a chance with the family's children.

Your doctor is uninformed as are the majority of them. too bad.
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#4 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 05:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shannyshan View Post
she said that if I don't plan on vax'ng to move out of Southern California since it's essentially Mexico



You MUST put this in my ped scaremongering thread. I'll bump it up for you.
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#5 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 05:51 PM
 
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hhhmmmm...aside from what has already been stated, the choice of vaxx'es she chose REALLY made me suspect her motivres......you see, measles comes in the triple combo vax MMR, and Tetanus comes in the triple combo DTaP......hhhmmmm...bet she didn't mention that.....and so, in order to get "just" the tetanus and measles, really, she is suckering you into 2 of the most reactive, awful combo shots there are!!! (Add in the polio....and basically, she's got you doing the vast majority of the entire vaxxing schedule!!!) Lying UA violation, is all i have to say about her......

CPST
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#6 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 06:47 PM
 
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Many people in SoCal don't vax, and I was one of them (we're in AZ now). You've gotten so great info from the PP's...do some research to find out the true incidences of the diseases as well as the diseases themselves, and you should be more comfortable with your decision.

"Have faith in yourself and in the direction you have chosen." Ralph Marston

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#7 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 06:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shannyshan View Post
She said that Tetanus is in our soil and really scared me about the Measles.
What did she say to scare you about measles? That 500,000 severely malnourished children living in Africa die of measles annually?

Otherwise, measles is a fever and rash.

And an unvaxed child (or unvaxed adult for that matter) has a better chance getting hit by lighting than getting tetanus.
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#8 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 07:00 PM
 
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Originally posted by Gitti
On the other hand, measles is a very useful disease in children. They build a super immune system after having gone through measles. In my generation, when a child was on dialysis, the hospital encouraged the parents to get the child naturally infected with the measles virus because they saw a tremendous improvement in the child's condition.

Other benefits of measles are well documented. Children with eczema often are relieved of any signs of the condition after they've had measles. I can't remember what else off hand.
We had measles here about two months ago.

My dd1 has had some speech issues, mostly with not articulating sounds. She's been in speech therapy for a while, with some improvement, although nothing to cheer about.

About a week after everyone was better, she started talking like a completely different person. Clear, articulate, no lisp, nothing. She's like a completely different person.

It really was amazing. If I hadn't seen it myself, I wouldn't believe it.
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#9 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 07:49 PM
 
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http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5203a1.htm

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During 1998--2000, an average of 43 cases of tetanus was reported annually; the average annual incidence was 0.16 cases/million population. The highest average annual incidence of reported tetanus was among persons aged >60 years (0.35 cases/million population), persons of Hispanic ethnicity (0.37 cases/million population), and older adults known to have diabetes (0.70 cases/million population).
http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cf...TOKEN=91138319

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Hazards like falling out of bed in the morning, of which 600 Americans die each year.
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#10 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 07:58 PM
 
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MMR and DTaP are the 2 vax that are at the top of the list for adverse reactions as well.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#11 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
hhhmmmm...aside from what has already been stated, the choice of vaxx'es she chose REALLY made me suspect her motivres......you see, measles comes in the triple combo vax MMR, and Tetanus comes in the triple combo DTaP......hhhmmmm...bet she didn't mention that.....and so, in order to get "just" the tetanus and measles, really, she is suckering you into 2 of the most reactive, awful combo shots there are!!! (Add in the polio....and basically, she's got you doing the vast majority of the entire vaxxing schedule!!!) Lying UA violation, is all i have to say about her......

And about you and her...WOW....the part of your post about Mexico sounds horribly racist.....I'm sure you didn't MEAN for it to sound like you think all mexicans are filthy, diseased people you prefer not to live next to......right?

Completely untrue. I am just thinking about moving out of the area because of how crowded it has become and I want to live in a greener area(and hopefully more seasons). The fact that she mentioned that I would do better to live out of Southern California if I don't want to vax was what I was reffering to when I said it only makes me what to move more than I already do. Please don't think I believe that about Mexicans. Some of my greatest friends are Mexican. I will fix my post so it sounds better...Sorry!
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#12 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 09:08 PM
 
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Did she share any disease stats to show you why those should be so scary?

As mentioned, in reasonably healthy people (meaning not terribly malnourished and living in squalor) measles is a mild disease. Fever and a rash as mentioned. Easily treated with vitamin A.

Tetanus? Of course it's in the dirt. It's everywhere. It's in the dust in your house. Tetanus is not a disease of the young or those with good circulation. It never was.

-Angela
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#13 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 09:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katana View Post
We had measles here about two months ago.

My dd1 has had some speech issues, mostly with not articulating sounds. She's been in speech therapy for a while, with some improvement, although nothing to cheer about.

About a week after everyone was better, she started talking like a completely different person. Clear, articulate, no lisp, nothing. She's like a completely different person.

It really was amazing. If I hadn't seen it myself, I wouldn't believe it.
Yes. My granddaughter had a lovely developmental leap after CP. I shared the story on MDC and heard from several other moms who had noticed similar developmental changes after their kids went through normal childhood illnesses.

I'm so pleased about your dd1. Super!
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#14 of 32 Old 12-26-2006, 09:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katana View Post
We had measles here about two months ago.

My dd1 has had some speech issues, mostly with not articulating sounds. She's been in speech therapy for a while, with some improvement, although nothing to cheer about.

About a week after everyone was better, she started talking like a completely different person. Clear, articulate, no lisp, nothing. She's like a completely different person.

It really was amazing. If I hadn't seen it myself, I wouldn't believe it.
How sweet of you to post this. And of Deborah, too.

When I was growing up there were no speech therapists, or therapists for anything else for kids.

Most kids had all the childhood disease. No one was afraid of them. It was considered normal and expected. We were proud of them. (I know that must sound funny to some of you, but that is a fact.) It was considered a right of passage. It meant we were maturing.

When a child was slower to develop or had a speech impediment for example, grown ups would generally say "give him time". That meant in time the problem would (hopefully) correct itself.

I wonder what they knew? Was it instinctive or were they talking out of experience? Did it mean the childhood diseases will mature the child? I think so.

OTOH, maybe it was just my family that was so laid back about diseases and developmental problems? I don't know for sure. My mother doesn't even know what childhood diseases I had. Sometimes she'll say "all of them" and other times she'll say "whatever was going around".

No one wrote it down. No one cared. It was expected that the child was sick from time to time.
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#15 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 05:00 AM
 
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Yes. My granddaughter had a lovely developmental leap after CP. I shared the story on MDC and heard from several other moms who had noticed similar developmental changes after their kids went through normal childhood illnesses.

I'm so pleased about your dd1. Super!
Thank you, it is great for dd, too. And both of us are very glad to be done with our SLP.

I think I was one of the mamas, way back, who noticed developmental leaps after sickness, and your posts about it were welcome reading.

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How sweet of you to post this. And of Deborah, too.

When I was growing up there were no speech therapists, or therapists for anything else for kids.

Most kids had all the childhood disease. No one was afraid of them. It was considered normal and expected. We were proud of them. (I know that must sound funny to some of you, but that is a fact.) It was considered a right of passage. It meant we were maturing.

When a child was slower to develop or had a speech impediment for example, grown ups would generally say "give him time". That meant in time the problem would (hopefully) correct itself.

I wonder what they knew? Was it instinctive or were they talking out of experience? Did it mean the childhood diseases will mature the child? I think so.

OTOH, maybe it was just my family that was so laid back about diseases and developmental problems? I don't know for sure. My mother doesn't even know what childhood diseases I had. Sometimes she'll say "all of them" and other times she'll say "whatever was going around".

No one wrote it down. No one cared. It was expected that the child was sick from time to time.
It's funny that when dh and I were agonizing whether or not to put dd in speech therapy, those older than 40 all said to give it time. That you (mostly) never had to say to anyone older than 8 or 9 "you are not understandable"

I wish society gave kids time to develop at their own pace, although I suppose that is another post, in another forum.

My grandma says the same thing you do, that the diseases went around, people had them, and they all went on with life. She does not understand the hysteria surrounding illness. It was normal for them.

And she laughs about people tracking what their kids had. They had much better things to do, then worry and watch for illness. I agree with what you posted, it makes a lot of sense.
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#16 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 06:40 AM
 
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We had measles here about two months ago.

My dd1 has had some speech issues, mostly with not articulating sounds. She's been in speech therapy for a while, with some improvement, although nothing to cheer about.

About a week after everyone was better, she started talking like a completely different person. Clear, articulate, no lisp, nothing. She's like a completely different person.

It really was amazing. If I hadn't seen it myself, I wouldn't believe it.
And what's interesting is that that is what used to be the major talking point when everyone got kids. How the kids made developmental strides after measles.

Even with my own, the youngest made huge speech improvements, with sound articulation after measles.

A generation ago, when my kids were little, everyone "knew" that, but I'm sure it will be pretty much consigned to the "old wives tales", or even worse "rubbish they used to talk"....

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#17 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 08:55 PM
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And what's interesting is that that is what used to be the major talking point when everyone got kids. How the kids made developmental strides after measles.
As opposed to nowadays when everyone talks about various developmental losses, regresses and delays after measles vaccine
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And what's interesting is that that is what used to be the major talking point when everyone got kids. How the kids made developmental strides after measles.

Even with my own, the youngest made huge speech improvements, with sound articulation after measles.

A generation ago, when my kids were little, everyone "knew" that, but I'm sure it will be pretty much consigned to the "old wives tales", or even worse "rubbish they used to talk"....
Or dangerous, dangerous antivax rumors.
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#19 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 09:16 PM
 
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Measles is a virus and before they had the vaccine the CDC said they will never develop a vaccine for measles because of the disease being so benign.

On the other hand, measles is a very useful disease in children. They build a super immune system after having gone through measles. In my generation, when a child was on dialysis, the hospital encouraged the parents to get the child naturally infected with the measles virus because they saw a tremendous improvement in the child's condition.

Other benefits of measles are well documented. Children with eczema often are relieved of any signs of the condition after they've had measles. I can't remember what else off hand.
Ok I don't care if you backed it up or not, where can I get measles????? LOL I have this strange rash on my hands, some form of eczema so I'm willing to get a whopper of a case of measles if it MIGHT help - just expose me!
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#20 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 09:22 PM
 
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As opposed to nowadays when everyone talks about various developmental losses, regresses and delays after measles vaccine


We've traded a rash and fever . . . for what?
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#21 of 32 Old 12-27-2006, 10:36 PM
 
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Ok I don't care if you backed it up or not, where can I get measles????? LOL I have this strange rash on my hands, some form of eczema so I'm willing to get a whopper of a case of measles if it MIGHT help - just expose me!

Truthfully if I were you, I would not try and get exposed to measles as an adult.

Personally I would not avoid it. I would welcome the re-exposure because I am immune. But I don't know about you.

Measles in grownups can be very dangerous. Same as the vaccine. I know someone who claims she got Sjogrens's Disease after having measles as an adult.

My grandson had measles 7 1/2 yrs ago and I took care of him. Actually he took care of himself but he slept in MY bed because it is "the best bed there is" according to him. I never even considered to worry since I am immune.
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#22 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 12:55 AM
 
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Measles in grownups can be very dangerous. Same as the vaccine. I know someone who claims she got Sjogrens's Disease after having measles as an adult.
Guess no one told them that when they required the MMR for all college students. (and the MMR is the only shot required for college here) Then again, we all know that they don't believe their vaxes are dangerous.

I have an exemption, I will never receive that vax, but the school does their best to "lose" my exemption EVERY semester. Once I even took them the exemption in person, only to have them flag my account so that I couldn't register for classes without calling to have them fix it first. :

I'm only 20, I'd rather take my chances with the real thing.
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#23 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 01:18 AM
 
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Guess no one told them that when they required the MMR for all college students. (and the MMR is the only shot required for college here) Then again, we all know that they don't believe their vaxes are dangerous.
It's all about money, believe me. It is not about health. They would go broke if everyone were healthy.

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... but the school does their best to "lose" my exemption EVERY semester. Once I even took them the exemption in person, only to have them flag my account so that I couldn't register for classes without calling to have them fix it first. :
Now there is a real conspiracy!

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I'm only 20, I'd rather take my chances with the real thing.
Don't get the measles, you are too old. I hate to tell you that but I think it is too late. Of course should you accidentally get them, well, what can you do? Avoid anti-pyretics and stick it out.

Good for you for being such a smart kid already. Don't let college ruin you.
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#24 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 03:37 AM
 
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Don't get the measles, you are too old.
.....
Good for you for being such a smart kid already. Don't let college ruin you.
There you go calling me "old" and a "kid" all practically in the same sentance. *sigh*
Do you know how many times a week I get called "too young" or "kid" or whathave you? I'm too old, but obviously not old-enough to be a married adult. Yet, I'm so tiny that if anything bad ever got wrong with me they'd send me to the children's hospital to be able to use the kiddy-sized-equipment. I swear no body can make up their mind about me, sometimes it upsets me so bad .......It's probably the PMS, and it's not your fault
but geeeez.
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#25 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 03:44 AM
 
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not very scientific...just anectdotal ... but i had measles at 20 and it was a breeze
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#26 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 05:08 AM
 
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Completely untrue. I am just thinking about moving out of the area because of how crowded it has become and I want to live in a greener area(and hopefully more seasons). The fact that she mentioned that I would do better to live out of Southern California if I don't want to vax was what I was reffering to when I said it only makes me what to move more than I already do. Please don't think I believe that about Mexicans. Some of my greatest friends are Mexican. I will fix my post so it sounds better...Sorry!

I didn't think you sounded racist in your OP. I thought your doctor sounded racist.
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#27 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 11:47 AM
 
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she said that if I don't plan on vax'ng to move out of Southern California since it's essentially Mexico
I think Mexico has a %95 vaccinations rate, which is "better" than the US.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#28 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 11:54 AM
 
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I have an exemption, I will never receive that vax, but the school does their best to "lose" my exemption EVERY semester. Once I even took them the exemption in person, only to have them flag my account so that I couldn't register for classes without calling to have them fix it first. :

I'm only 20, I'd rather take my chances with the real thing.
When you turn in your exemption have them write/sign/put the school seal on a letter that says you turned in your vaccination exemption in accordance with XXX regulation of X college and you are cleared for registration. You could also tell them (after you get the letter) that if you are barred from registration again you will send registered letters detailing their incompetencies of the past X semesters to their boss, their boss's boss, the college president and your congressmen: .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#29 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 04:43 PM
 
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I wanted to just point out again that it is an interesting set of vaccines to suggest. Measles comes alone, but no one wants to order it or offer it, so the offer would likely be MMR, a combo vax. Tetanus comes alone, but is not approved for anyone under the age of 7, so that leaves DTaP, another combo vax. And adding polio, you've got the entire vaccine schedule from the 70s!!! I actually told my pedi this about the tetanus and she went to look it up to confirm it! Sad, we (MDCers) know more than they do.

My pedi (in a town 50miles from where I actually live) pushed HIB and Prevnar... She also tried to push polio as we live in a "transient" community. The office is in NoVA and there are a lot of different cultures and people in that area (again making some sort of negative comment about people not from the US -I'm not from the US! Although by looking she would not know that.) This only happened the first time we went b/c I never saw that doctor in the practice again (completely by choice not to see her again) and the next doctor never said anything to me about not vaxing other than if we came in with a puncture wound they would insist on the tetanus vax, well actually it would be an GG tetanus not a vax (I've stuck with her). If my kids get a puncture wound, we'll go to our local ER and the local ER does not carry pediatric doses of vaccines (I know this from past experience).

As a matter of fact the experience is as follows: my ds2 fell and cut his mouth open on rusty rebarb in our yard in 2003. I took him via ambulance to the ER, the rebarb went straight into his mouth and he had a circle of blood at the roof of his mouth (I was not about to mess with holes from objects that could have gone into the brain or sinus cavity area.) Turned out to be a surface wound, thank the Lord. And the doctor said he didn't need a tentanus shot, I actually asked b/c I was always told rusty object wounds would give you lock jaw! Come to think of it now our lovely yard is loaded with fresh from the farm animal crap, which would carry tentanus. Anyway, he never got ill and never got a tentanus shot. His wound bled a lot as well, which I believe has something to do with prevention of tetanus.

Gitti's post is what I would say about measles -- my great-grandparents lived, my grandparents live, my parents lived (although my mother had a blood thing happen from measles or the lead pencil a kids stuck in her leg and she was in the hospital at 13 yrs old), my sister and I were vaxed... I don't fear measles, I'd welcome it for my kids. I would not fear coming down with it myself as my titers were checked a few years ago. I think in adult years it's the secondary illnesses that are of the most concern.

My grandmother had mumps when my dad and his brother had them! If my grandmother can have mumps and live as an adult, so can I (but again I was vaxed).

Measles in the day was like Chicken pox when we were growing up - kids came over to my house to get it from me! My sister never offically got it, she might have natural immuity (she'll never get a titer, she hates needles of all kinds). We lived through chicken pox so will my kids. Amazing the story behind the CP vaccine is 1 child died and those parents pushed for a vaccine (if memory serves me correct).

Today, parents are told, get the vax so you don't miss work and your kids don't miss school -- there's a reason to vax!!! Well, in all honesty, I know a few single mothers were this is very important to their ability to put a roof over their heads and food on their table and for them I truly feel for their situation caused by stupid deadbeat ex husbands who can't pay child support, can't be bothered to see their kids and who just flat out don't care... Off my soap box, df is in this situation and her ds3 was so ill she missed a week of work and almost lost her job the plant laid off some 60 workers before Christmas, she was lucky they like her. Turned out ds3 had an infection, the antibiotics given created an allergic reaction, and then that was all sorted out and he was fine. But a week out of work, is a week without pay for her...
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#30 of 32 Old 12-28-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Hazards like falling out of bed in the morning, of which 600 Americans die each year.
Is there a vaccine for that? :










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