On the fence re the chicken pox vaccine - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We've not had DS vaxed with the varicella vaccine - but we're on the fence about whether or not to do it. What are the pro's and cons? Our most compelling reason to do it is fear of shingles, but is that common?
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#2 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MilkOnDemand View Post
Our most compelling reason to do it is fear of shingles, but is that common?
The varicella vaccine is not going to stop your child from getting shingles - it's a live vaccine.

Also, vaccine-induced shingles is happening. VARICELLA VAXED preschoolers/gradeschoolers are now getting shingles. Then, of course, passing along chicken pox to their VAXED peers.
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#3 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:09 AM
 
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Another con: The CDC just recommended a SECOND dose of the vaccine.
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#4 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:10 AM
 
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The chickenpox vaccine is what started me down the road to not vaccinating at all. Seems absurd to me. I had chickenpox- wasn't scary at all.

And yeah, you can still get shingles if you've had the vax. Actually a few studies have shown that kids are getting shingles YOUNGER *because* of the vaccine.

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#5 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:12 AM
 
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Before I stopped vaxing this was the one vaccine I just could not see any reason for. I did not see Chicken Pox as threatening disease. Like Long Island said, this is a live vaccine so the chances of your dc developing Chicken Pox from the vaccine is possible. Not to mention the vaccine is extremely ineffective.

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#6 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 02:49 PM
 
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Reading thru some VAERS reports, I found that not only were some vaccinated children getting shingles after the vaccines, some parents were as well, from their recently vaccinated children!

So your most compelling reason for wanting the vaccine, is the very reason you should stay far from it.
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#7 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 03:08 PM
 
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from what i understand, parents are getting shingles in larger numbers now too b/c they aren't receiving the "natural booster" of CP from their kids b/c the kids are getting the CP shots. and shingles is MUCH worse than CP.

i just never saw CP as a problem. and of course, it really wasnt...until a vax came along and now we are all told how scarey is it, how many are hospitalized, etc. etc. Its all scaremongering.

The 2 easiest vax for me to avoid are the CP and the flu shot. the rest i really had to think about, but not those 2.
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#8 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Shingles...

The chicken pox virus hangs out in the spine (dormant) forever. It is this way if you get the shot or if you get chicken pox naturally. When you are exposed to chicken pox and you already have the antibodies then you system is reminded. It gives it a boost. The virus will more likely remain dormant.

Because science has interfered with the natural process and we do not get this boost as often, Shingles will pop up more and more. The virus will surface. It is the SAME virus as chicken pox but manifests itself differently. It can be brought on by a low immune system and or stress (and lack of the reminder/boost) It was more common in older folks because of the declining health of sr. citizens but now is being seen in younger and younger people. I myself had it about 3 years ago. (I was 31 years old)

I am not sure if shingles is more likely in people who get the shot or those that get it naturally but I think I remember reading that it is actually more common in those that got the shot. I had chicken pox naturally but I was under a year old. I also read that it is best to have the pox naturally after a year and that if you get it before a year that you will have a bigger chance of shingles later in life. It was true with me. I don't remember the link because it was 3 years ago that I researched it all.

I hope this helps.
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#9 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 03:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by suschi View Post
Reading thru some VAERS reports, I found that not only were some vaccinated children getting shingles after the vaccines, some parents were as well, from their recently vaccinated children!
.

Parents getting shingles from their vaxed kids? (not sure if this is what you were saying) You can not get shingles from someone else. You can get chicken pox from someone with shingles but not the other way around. Shingles is the dormant virus creeping out.
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#10 of 25 Old 12-29-2006, 05:07 PM
 
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The chickenpox vaccine is what started me down the road to not vaccinating at all. Seems absurd to me. I had chickenpox- wasn't scary at all.

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#11 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 03:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by candipooh View Post
Parents getting shingles from their vaxed kids? (not sure if this is what you were saying) You can not get shingles from someone else. You can get chicken pox from someone with shingles but not the other way around. Shingles is the dormant virus creeping out.
Yes, according to the VAERS reports, after the child was vaccinated, the parent broke out in shingles. I would imagine it would be caused by the same mechanism that is causing a child to break out in shingles after being vaccinated.

And instead of trying to find out WHY this is happening, the answer is to vaccinate for shingles!
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#12 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 03:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by suschi View Post
Yes, according to the VAERS reports, after the child was vaccinated, the parent broke out in shingles. I would imagine it would be caused by the same mechanism that is causing a child to break out in shingles after being vaccinated.

And instead of trying to find out WHY this is happening, the answer is to vaccinate for shingles!
Can you point me in the direction of the info for this? ALLLLL of my reading (and I read as much as I could get my hands on when I, myself, had shingles) on shingles says that you CAN NOT pass on shingles (from being exposed from shingles or chicken pox). You don't catch shingles. You can't. It is something that creaps up from an old chicken pox virus that is hanging out in your spine. Being exposed to the pox will help you NOT get shingles (by giving your antibodies a reminder/booster)

So if my understanding is wrong point me to where you are reading. I hate to pass along misinformation.

{if you want you can PM me or perhaps we should start a shingles info thrend, I don't want to derail away from the OPs question. }
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#13 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 03:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by candipooh View Post
Can you point me in the direction of the info for this? ALLLLL of my reading (and I read as much as I could get my hands on when I, myself, had shingles) on shingles says that you CAN NOT pass on shingles (from being exposed from shingles or chicken pox). You don't catch shingles. You can't. It is something that creaps up from an old chicken pox virus that is hanging out in your spine. Being exposed to the pox will help you NOT get shingles (by giving your antibodies a reminder/booster)

So if my understanding is wrong point me to where you are reading. I hate to pass along misinformation.

{if you want you can PM me or perhaps we should start a shingles info thrend, I don't want to derail away from the OPs question. }
I don't mind sharing the info here, as it relates to the OP's question, and the information is important to know.

Here is some correspondence I had with the National Immunization Program (NIP) re: shingles after the vaccine, included are my question and the response I received,

Edited to remove an email posted without the author's permission, as per the MDC copyright policy.

For the VAERS reports, go here, you can select the vaccine specifically to see all reports filed.

http://www.medalerts.org/

It was after reading several reports of shingles in young children after the vaccine that prompted me to write to NIP. And as you can see, it was confirmed by them.
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#14 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 03:57 AM
 
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If you're afraid of shingles, and that will motivate you to get the vax..... DON'T get the vax! Your child is actually at greater risk of having shingles younger in life WITH the vaccine!!!! The reason is that his/her body is not given the chance to acquire natural immunity. So when he/she is exposed to the it, the body will react, often times in painful shingles.

We decided it's just not worth it.... there are lots of good reasons to not get the vaccines, as you read here. It's much better for our bodies to get natural immunities.... sadly, we have to hunt down the diseases these days.

Good luck with your decision!
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#15 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 04:49 PM
 
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Okay. What I am reading is that shingles can come from the chicken pox vaccine. But I don't see anything that says that the shingles can then be passed to another person. (see underlined quote) I am going to, for now , stand by what I was saying about not being able to pass on shingles. You can not pass on shingles. I will look for links and be back.

So to tie this in with the OPs post....you actually increese you childs chance of getting shingles by getting them the shot. You do not have a FULL NATURAL immunity when you either get the shot or get chicken pox before one year old.


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A: There is documented evidence of a very small number of cases of herpes zoster (shingles) from the vaccine virus in persons who have received the vaccine.
Okay I found some info.

Found from
http://health.howstuffworks.com/define-shingles.htm
Quote:
If an adult who has not had chicken pox is exposed to the virus, he will get chicken pox, not shingles.
I am reading on many many sites that say "yes it is contagious. You can get chichekn pox from someone with shingles."


Found at
http://ihaveshingles.com/#why-is-chi...t-not-shingles



From the same site
Quote:
This study also proved that a person with shingles can pass the virus to individuals who have never had chickenpox, but these individuals will develop chickenpox not shingles. A person with chickenpox cannot communicate shingles to someone else. In order for people to develop shingles they must already harbor the virus in their nervous system, and for those who do harbor the virus, having contact with someone with chickenpox will not trigger shingles. Additionally, a person with shingles cannot communicate shingles to another individual.
Quote removed as it violates MDC's copyright policy

(bolding and underlineing mine)
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#16 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 05:30 PM
 
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Can't you get the shingles either way, vax or CP? I know several adults who have had the shingles even though they had CP as kids. My understanding is that shingles strikes when the immune system is under stress from, well, stress. So, are there good ways to manage shingles that make it less scary? Besides avoiding it, of course, by keeping the stress at bay
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#17 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 05:41 PM
 
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Can't you get the shingles either way, vax or CP? I know several adults who have had the shingles even though they had CP as kids. My understanding is that shingles strikes when the immune system is under stress from, well, stress. So, are there good ways to manage shingles that make it less scary? Besides avoiding it, of course, by keeping the stress at bay

I added some info to my other post. Yes, you can get shingles if you have had the shot or have had chicken pox naturally. If your immune system gets a reminder/boost by being around the virus then that will help you advoid shingles. But yes, advoiding huge stress and keeping you immune system high you will be a lot less likly to develop shingles.


There is suplaments you can take to help ward it away too or to lessen it severity when it starts. Like L-lysine or anything that boosts your immune system. I treated mine naturally and kept up with the 'treatment' for months after words. I was nervous that it would come back. NOT FUN!
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#18 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 07:54 PM
 
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I had chicken pox as an adult at the age of 24. I survived it well and never had a case of shingles. I think it depends upon the person and the other family members and how they survived the chicken pox. Did you have this as a child? Do you have shingles? If so, then your child may have it. A friend of mine's child does get it periodically. It last a few days and then is gone. I personally have chosen not to vaccinate my children with this vaccine. The formadelhide, aborted fetal tissue, and other chemical ingredients, make me shutter to give it. To me that seems more risky to my child's health. I wish you well with your decision.
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#19 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 08:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by candipooh View Post
Okay. What I am reading is that shingles can come from the chicken pox vaccine. But I don't see anything that says that the shingles can then be passed to another person. (see underlined quote) I am going to, for now , stand by what I was saying about not being able to pass on shingles. You can not pass on shingles. I will look for links and be back.

So to tie this in with the OPs post....you actually increese you childs chance of getting shingles by getting them the shot. You do not have a FULL NATURAL immunity when you either get the shot or get chicken pox before one year old.




Okay I found some info.

Found from
http://health.howstuffworks.com/define-shingles.htm


I am reading on many many sites that say "yes it is contagious. You can get chichekn pox from someone with shingles."


Found at
http://ihaveshingles.com/#why-is-chi...t-not-shingles


From the same site


(bolding and underlineing mine)
I don't believe the vaccinated child in some of the VAERS reports were passing shingles to the parent, I think in some of the cases, the child got the vaccine, and the parent, who probably already had chickenpox at some point, was exposed to live virus via the vaccinated child, and broke out in shingles. Much like someone getting polio from someone recently vaccinated with the OPV.
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#20 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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I don't believe the vaccinated child in some of the VAERS reports were passing shingles to the parent, I think in some of the cases, the child got the vaccine, and the parent, who probably already had chickenpox at some point, was exposed to live virus via the vaccinated child, and broke out in shingles. Much like someone getting polio from someone recently vaccinated with the OPV.

I see what you are saying but if someone was exposed to shingles then they would get chicken pox. If someone broke out in shingles then it had nothing to do with them being exposed to shingles. I hope I am explaining this clear (are you understanding me?) A person who already had had chicken pox who is exposed to shingles will actually get HELP to not get shingles. It sends a reminder/boost to their immune system
Someone could get polio from someone who had the vaccanation becaue polio is contagious. Shingles is not contagious in that it will NOT cause someone to get shingles.

I guess the short and the long of it is that if the parent got shingles then it had nothing to do with being exposed to chicken pox or shingles.
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#21 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 09:50 PM
 
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I see what you are saying but if someone was exposed to shingles then they would get chicken pox. If someone broke out in shingles then it had nothing to do with them being exposed to shingles. I hope I am explaining this clear (are you understanding me?) A person who already had had chicken pox who is exposed to shingles will actually get HELP to not get shingles. It sends a reminder/boost to their immune system
Someone could get polio from someone who had the vaccanation becaue polio is contagious. Shingles is not contagious in that it will NOT cause someone to get shingles.

I guess the short and the long of it is that if the parent got shingles then it had nothing to do with being exposed to chicken pox or shingles.
No, not saying shingles causes shingles. I am saying that whatever mechanism that is causing a child to break out in shingles after being vaccinated with the chickenpox vaccine is probably the same mechanism that is causing a parent to break out in shingles when exposed to the live vaccine virus via their recently vaccinated child.

The vaccines are man made, so who knows what they may be capable of.

Don't you find it feasible that if the vaccine is admitted to cause shingles in the recipient, that it can also cause shingles in someone exposed to the live virus vaccine, especially if they have the dormant virus within?
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#22 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 10:27 PM
 
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I thought when vaccinated kids get shingles it's usually much later after getting the vaccine?
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#23 of 25 Old 12-30-2006, 10:38 PM
 
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Here there are several kindergarten children who have shingles who had been vaxed at a year old. Something no older generation person has ever heard of is kids getting shingles. When I told my mom she said but shingles is a old person problem I said yes it used to be but now the proof is pointing to the cp vax as causing many young kids to develop shingles.

A person can develop shingles later in life even without being reexposed to cp. If the ammune system is compromised then the odds of them developing it goes way up. Most normal healthy people should never have shingles.

Like one pp mentioned if you look at the VEARS report you will see a large number of young people (under 10) now getting shingles.

Something is definatly fishy and now I worry about my poor dd who got the CP vax because the Dr. lied to me saying because of her eczema should she get cp she would end up in the hospital. If only I could go back and undo it but I cant. My ds has not nor will he ever recieve this vax.

 
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#24 of 25 Old 12-31-2006, 12:30 PM
 
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Don't you find it feasible that if the vaccine is admitted to cause shingles in the recipient, that it can also cause shingles in someone exposed to the live virus vaccine, especially if they have the dormant virus within?
No I don't sorry. Like I said before. If someone who has antibodies to chicken pox and is exposed to either chicken pox or shingles that it help their immune system not make them more susceptible to shingles.

Quote:
I thought when vaccinated kids get shingles it's usually much later after getting the vaccine?
I am not sure about how long after but yes. It would have to be at least a little time later.

Quote:
There is documented evidence of a very small number of cases of herpes zoster (shingles) from the vaccine virus in persons who have received the vaccine.
To me this means that a child that receives the vaccine does not have a FULL natural immunity to chicken pox. This can also happen if a child under the age of one gets chicken pox naturally. So there is some 'flaw' in the protection that the vaccine gives. This flaw may make the vaccinated child more likely to get shingles.

The reason that shingles was, in the past, mostly an older person problem is that, it is believed by some, that even natural immunity to chicken pox will lessen over time. Especially because older persons do not get the regular reminder/boost as much because they are not around children as much.

I feel like I am repeating myself, lol, but I don't think I am being understood.

The basic is....the chicken pox vaccine has thrown off the natural order of things. It has messed it up. And even those like myself who do not vaccinate have to deal with this messed up crap. My oldest is almost 8 and still hasn't had the chicken pox. :
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#25 of 25 Old 12-31-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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My older two got the vax because we are an all or nothing state (and it didnt occur to me to just say they werent vaxed, oops!). My dd actually got cp from the vaccine and at the time I had a 3 month old baby so it freaked me out! Honestly I am hoping that the vax doesnt work and my kids still get full blown cp (my dd had a mild case), so I am still looking for pox parties!! No way will any of my future kids or my baby be getting that vax. Its just stupid.

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