vaccines & juvenile arthritis? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 01-10-2007, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
chic2chic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Babymoon
Posts: 544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my 18 mo DD has just been diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis in one knee. she is fully breastfed & has always been super-healthy until now (no major illnesses, no antibiotics ever). she had her 3d DTaP shot in june, and had a huge lump in her left thigh for months. in mid-september, she had her 1st polio shot, and soon after that her JRA symptoms began (left knee).

she was already on a slowed-down vax schedule, but now we're considering avoiding all future shots.

does anyone have any experience with JRA & vaccines, or know of any conclusive studies/links? i have been combing the web for weeks, with no luck. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.
:
chic2chic is offline  
#2 of 24 Old 01-10-2007, 01:01 PM
 
Lookingup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Humph. It's not a study that's likely to get a lot of funding. I'm so sorry for your DD.

I was diagnosed with juvenile arthritis when I was 8 years old after some routine vaccinations. The only thing that ever helped me was anti-malarial drugs. I still have the occasional flare-ups as an adult, but they're mild and I treat them herbally/nutritionally.

Hope you find answers.

Suz, mommy to 2 chess-playing, lightsaber-wielding boys

Lookingup is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
chic2chic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Babymoon
Posts: 544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thanks, suz.
our very mainstream rheumatologist has now acknowledged a possible link between the series of shots DD received in her left thigh, and the knee inflammation. she also agreed that we should put all other vaxes (esp. including MMR and chicken pox) on hold.
chic2chic is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 12:12 PM
 
mamadecuatro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was diagnosed around 8 with JRA, too. Although it went into "remission" within a couple of months and I've never had problems since. Makes me wonder if that's what it really was (I was fully vaxxed).
I think it's amazing the links between illnesses like that and vaxxes, though. Maybe you should google it and see.
mamadecuatro is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 12:24 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Well, JA is an autoimmune disease, and vaxes mess with the immune system. So, it's a possibility.
applejuice likes this.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 12:28 PM
 
LongIsland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 11,712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chic2chic View Post
she also agreed that we should put all other vaxes (esp. including MMR and chicken pox) on hold.


It is well recognized that rubella-containing vaccines cause chronic arthritis and joint pain. In fact, chronic arthritis is a "tabled" injury under the VICP (Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) for rubella-containing vaccines. Tabled injuries are reserved for injuries they cannot even attempt to sweep under ther rug.

I'm going to bump up a thread on MMR and joint pain - you'll know which one it is.
applejuice likes this.
LongIsland is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 01-14-2007, 03:19 PM
 
JENERGY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WASHINGTON
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chic2chic View Post
my 18 mo DD has just been diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis in one knee. she is fully breastfed & has always been super-healthy until now (no major illnesses, no antibiotics ever). she had her 3d DTaP shot in june, and had a huge lump in her left thigh for months. in mid-september, she had her 1st polio shot, and soon after that her JRA symptoms began (left knee).

she was already on a slowed-down vax schedule, but now we're considering avoiding all future shots.

does anyone have any experience with JRA & vaccines, or know of any conclusive studies/links? i have been combing the web for weeks, with no luck. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.
:
my 5 year old has jra and has not been vaxed.She has it in her knee neck and big toe. It is scary to find out your child has a cronic condition.
I am trying to start a new jra thread in the health forum to find tips and other oppinions on the condition.
any how good luck and feel free to contact me if you want.
applejuice likes this.
JENERGY is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 01-15-2007, 08:20 PM
 
Throkmorton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The sunny beaches of Canada
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My DS's first arthritis symptoms appeared within 48 hours of his 3rd DTaP and Polio vaxes. I do think they are related.
applejuice likes this.
Throkmorton is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 01-15-2007, 10:16 PM
Banned
 
~member~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: on a lily pad
Posts: 13,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just a few of the adverse reactions....
Quote:
Endocrine System
Diabetes mellitus.
Hemic and Lymphatic System
Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy;
leukocytosis.
Immune System
Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as
angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or
without an allergic history.
Musculoskeletal System
Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia.
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../mmr_ii_pi.pdf
applejuice likes this.
~member~ is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 01-15-2007, 10:20 PM
 
imgr8ful's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: sunny az
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i had jra when i was younger too - around 6yo, in one of my ankles, don't remember which one, it hasn't bothered me since - i think i was on aspirin for a year. : i was vaxed according to schedule (born in 79).
applejuice likes this.
imgr8ful is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 01-17-2007, 03:54 AM
 
aanule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my brother had JRA. he was about 18 mo too, i beleive... his was very very severe, he had rashes on all his joints and a fever of like 106... i guess it was so unheard of at the time it was one of the last things they tested for.

After researching into it, i fully believe his was caused by vaccines
applejuice likes this.
aanule is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 01-17-2007, 03:03 PM
 
suschi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the midst
Posts: 2,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did a quick google search and here's just some of what came up,

Rubella-virus infection in juvenile rheumatoid arthritis.Ogra PL, Chiba Y, Ogra SS, Dzierba JL, Herd JK.
Antibody activity against mumps, measles, polio, and rubella viruses was determined in patients with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (J.R.A.), rubella-vaccine associated arthritis, adult rheumatoid arthritis, other chronic systemic disorders (e.g., systemic lupus and dermatomyositis), and in a matched population of normal, non-rheumatoid (control) children. The antibody levels against mumps, measles, and poliovirus were similar in all patients. Rubella-antibody levels in rheumatoid arthritis and other systemic disorders were similar to those observed in controls. The mean rubella-antibody levels in rubella-vaccine arthritis were 4 times higher than in controls. The IgM and IgG rubella-antibody levels in J.R.A. were found to be 4-6 times higher when compared to titres observed in the controls. Highest antibody levels were seen in younger children with J.R.A. Detection of rubella-virus antigen was attempted by immunofluorescence in the sediment smears of synovial fluid of patients with J.R.A., adult rheumatoid arthritis, and other non-rheumatoid joint diseases. Specific staining for rubella virus antigen was observed in the synovial fluid of 33 percent of patients with J.R.A. No antigen was detected in the synovial fluid from other patients. These observations suggest a possible role of rubella-virus infection in J.R.A.

PMID: 48775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Case Report: 6-Year-Old Male with Autism and Systemic Onset Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis

needed to determine whether vaccines could play a role in the development

*they want 32.00 for full report*


http://www.springerlink.com/content/j73351q340w80jq2/


Recent news reports have alleged a link between Hepatitis B Vaccine and several severe illnesses, including Multiple Sclerosis (MS), Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis (JRA) or other rheumatologic conditions, and even Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).

http://www.chmed.com/mod.php?mod=use...b6fbcf9b3fbfa2

(follow this one up with a search for BONNIE DUNBAR)

http://*********/vaccines/arthritis.html
suschi is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 04-16-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Em Lira's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

That's what happened to us. My baby started having arthritis flareups after her vaccinations. The whole team of doctors do not believe that her flare ups have anything to do with vaccination. But I really think it messes with her immunity. 

applejuice likes this.
Em Lira is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 04-16-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)

Em Lira, your baby's RA may very well have something to do with vaccinations--but RA is also closely linked with celiac disease.  I have a friend who was diagnosed with JRA at age 12, and had 3 years of meds (mostly ibuprofen) and PT, with no relief of pain.

Turned out, she has celiac disease.  Once she got off gluten, her joint pain and swelling went almost completely away, and when she went off dairy as well, completely disappeared.

Oddly, she can have raw milk with no problems at all, but the slightest bit of either pasteurized milk or cheese, or the slightest bit of gluten, and it all comes back.

Her case is not unique; if you go to the celiac disease forums, there are many people reporting the same thing.

 

The MMR, according to Merck's website, can cause arthritis/arthralgia in up to 25% of post-pubertal females.  I'd like to know what IDIOT of a man decided that that was an acceptable side effect for a vaccine (apparently, men aren't subject to the same side effects).  But I'd also wonder--how often do babies get severe joint pain as the result of a vaccine or something else, and can't tell us?  

Taximom5 is online now  
#15 of 24 Old 04-16-2014, 03:51 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)

My niece has jra.  She receives SSI and will for the rest of her life. She cannot get live virus vaccinations. 

 

The meds have burned her vocal cords and she cannot speak perceptively well.

 

She will be on SSI for the rest of her life.

BeckyBird likes this.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 04-16-2014, 06:36 PM
 
Chicharronita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In the Candyland of my Imagination
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 

The MMR, according to Merck's website, can cause arthritis/arthralgia in up to 25% of post-pubertal females.  I'd like to know what IDIOT of a man decided that that was an acceptable side effect for a vaccine (apparently, men aren't subject to the same side effects).  But I'd also wonder--how often do babies get severe joint pain as the result of a vaccine or something else, and can't tell us?  

 

Supposedly it only lasts a day to three weeks and rarely recurs. :eyesroll

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/rubella.pdf

applejuice and BeckyBird like this.

Chicharronita is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 05-05-2014, 05:38 PM
 
Thorgrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My daughter stopped walking at 18mo right after her MMR vaccine. It took almost three months to get a diagnosis as to what stopped her from walking, as she walked at 9mo. This was way back in the early 70's and there was very little knowledge about JRA and finally she was diagnosed with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis. She had high fevers, multiple joint damage and all kinds of therapy and medications. Finally, when she was around 14 years old Methyaltrexate was administered and this sent her into remission.

 

We lost her two years ago at the age of 38, she left two children, her brother and her grieving mom and dad. It took months to find what caused her death, and at this time the coroner has ruled death due to Staph A infection of her arthritic elbow joint. I am writing to inform, so as to be watchful of flu like illness, severe pain in joints and do not take it lightly. The hospital and two ER doctors sent her home twice in a day, with pain meds, no antibiotics, no blood test, or urine test. She died within a 12 hours of her third trip to the hospital and finally admitted, but too late. Organ failure due to septic shock, from infection in elbow.

How the Strip A got into her elbow joint is still a question. So, beware and educate the doctors to watch for this sort of infection for people with RA or JRA.

applejuice and BeckyBird like this.
Thorgrun is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 05-05-2014, 05:55 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)

I am so sorry for your loss Thorgrun.

 

And thank you for sharing your story.


"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is online now  
#19 of 24 Old 05-05-2014, 06:25 PM
 
MountainMamaGC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorgrun View Post
 

My daughter stopped walking at 18mo right after her MMR vaccine. It took almost three months to get a diagnosis as to what stopped her from walking, as she walked at 9mo. This was way back in the early 70's and there was very little knowledge about JRA and finally she was diagnosed with Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis. She had high fevers, multiple joint damage and all kinds of therapy and medications. Finally, when she was around 14 years old Methyaltrexate was administered and this sent her into remission.

 

We lost her two years ago at the age of 38, she left two children, her brother and her grieving mom and dad. It took months to find what caused her death, and at this time the coroner has ruled death due to Staph A infection of her arthritic elbow joint. I am writing to inform, so as to be watchful of flu like illness, severe pain in joints and do not take it lightly. The hospital and two ER doctors sent her home twice in a day, with pain meds, no antibiotics, no blood test, or urine test. She died within a 12 hours of her third trip to the hospital and finally admitted, but too late. Organ failure due to septic shock, from infection in elbow.

How the Strip A got into her elbow joint is still a question. So, beware and educate the doctors to watch for this sort of infection for people with RA or JRA.

 

This is crazy, because I have crohns and a strep A infection caused my bowel to abscess and perforate. I almost died from sepsis at the age of 22. I had an infectious disease specialist visit me in hospital because they were very puzzled as to how I had Strep A in my bowel to begin with. I am so sorry for your loss. The medications used to treat autoimmune disease make us very susceptible to infection. Autoimmune disease is why I am so scared to vaccinate my daughter and still on the fence about it today. 

applejuice and BeckyBird like this.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years.
MountainMamaGC is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 05-05-2014, 07:00 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)

Oh, Thorgrun, how tragic--thank you so much for sharing your daughter's story with us.

Mirzam and BeckyBird like this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#21 of 24 Old 05-05-2014, 07:02 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post
 

 

Supposedly it only lasts a day to three weeks and rarely recurs. :eyesroll

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/rubella.pdf

 

Merck changed their website; when I first saw it (I have a screen shot of it somewhere, I'll have to look for it), it said something like, "most cases were either transient or else well-controlled with medication."

 

Interesting that they felt the need to change it...

applejuice and Chicharronita like this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#22 of 24 Old 05-06-2014, 04:55 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,078
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)

This is what merck has to say on arthritis type reactions:

 

Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children (children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%),17,52,53 and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult women. Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely interfere with normal activities.

 

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

 

 

applejuice likes this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#23 of 24 Old 05-06-2014, 05:26 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)

I can't help wondering--if up to 26% of MEN had arthritis/arthralgia that persisted for months or even years, would that have been considered acceptable?

 

The MMR came out in the early 1960's; what were the "normal"activities of the adult women who were followed for side effects?

Mirzam and applejuice like this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#24 of 24 Old 05-06-2014, 05:47 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,078
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)

Pain that can last for months in  12% to 26% of adult females is not acceptable.  You might be onto something with the "would this have been acceptable if it were male?" question. 

 

Febrile seizures are not acceptable side effects of vaccines, either.

 

It is amazing what people try to pass off as acceptable.

 

As per "rarely interferes with normal activities" I want better than that.  People in pain  often can watch their kids or clean their house.  Many can go to work - and basically just suffer along because they have no choice.  The defining line should not be "can they do it" but "are they in pain?"


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off