Question about DTaP - Mothering Forums

 
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#1 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am going to see a ped that will be releasing me after this visit if I do not agree to vax DD with what she deems "the important ones". One of the important ones is DTaP and she wanted me to know that a 4 month old died from pertussis in our city last week.

Of course, like many others I am stuck between vaxing my daughter and gambling she will not have negative reactions to the vax, or rolling the dice and taking a chance that she gets a disease and having to listen to everyone say "I told you so."

So my question is, just how hard is it to catch pertussis? DD is home with me during the day and has been and will continue to be EBF as long as I can keep my family at bay about feeding her solids (she doesn't seem interested and I am in no hurry) but has in the past and will next month be flying-and I take her with me out in the general public. SO comes home after working with the public all day and I have 2 step kids who are completely vaxed but in public school who are here 2 nights a week.

Also-a woman at the doctor's office told me they have had patients who have bought their own vaccines (from where I do not know) and brought them in to be injected and felt more comfortable b/c they knew what was in the vax and where it came from. Is this true? Even if it is, that doesn't address injecting my baby with a virus and bypassing her natural immune system.

I hate this. I wish I had the confidence that I see so many of you have in regards to not vaxing your babies. Why does this have to be so hard?
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#2 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 06:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sasshell View Post
I am going to see a ped that will be releasing me after this visit if I do not agree to vax DD with what she deems "the important ones". One of the important ones is DTaP and she wanted me to know that a 4 month old died from pertussis in our city last week.
About the same number of children will die from influenza as pertussis this year in the United States (maybe even more from influenza) . . . is the influenza vaccine one of her pet vaccines?

Where do you live and what county? I'll personally contact your state health department to see if she's telling the truth. Don't be surprised if she's not.

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So my question is, just how hard is it to catch pertussis?
Pertussis is endemic in the United States. There are millions of people walking around with pertussis annually, the majority are mis/undiagnosed . . . yet, there are only a dozen deaths annually and those deaths are almost exclusively in infants under the age of six months and infants die of plenty of other illnesses for which no vaccines exists because . . . well, they're infants.

If pertussis were as deadly as your ped wants you to believe, there would be a heck of a lot more than a dozen deaths annually considering the millions who contract it annually, including parents and grandparents of newborns.

Also, the pertussis vaccine does not prevent transmission and it is well recognized that vaccinated children serve as reservoirs for transmission.
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#3 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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Is the ped claiming that the 4 month old that died unvaccinated?
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#4 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is the ped claiming that the 4 month old that died unvaccinated?
She is unsure, as well as whether or not he was BF. That doesn't seem to be an issue for her-although it should be.
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#5 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:14 PM
 
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sounds like she is just trying to scare you. dont fall for it. go with your gut, keep weighing the risks vs. benefits of vaxxing or not vaxxing.

**i also think a call to your local health dept would be worth it too...like long island suggested**
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#6 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:18 PM
 
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DTaP has about the lowest efficacy rate and also one of the highest reaction rates. That was #1 to cross off my list. How old is your babe? Pertussis is rarely fatal in babies over 6 months old.

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#7 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:27 PM
 
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Yes, the pertussis vaccine is not what you would call effective.

There's a reason why four (4) primary doses and two (2) booster doses are recommended by the time children are 10 years of age. Even the CDC admits th vaccine starts to go downhill within just five years.

Oh, and they're actually looking to vax adults every five years instead of ten because the vaccine sucks so bad.
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#8 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 07:29 PM
 
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Pertussis is rarely fatal in babies over 6 months old.

That's not because they're vaxed either . . . because fully vaxed infants DO get pertussis.
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#9 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 08:20 PM
 
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DTaP has about the lowest efficacy rate and also one of the highest reaction rates. That was #1 to cross off my list. How old is your babe? Pertussis is rarely fatal in babies over 6 months old.
When you say lowest efficacy rates, do you mean specifically for the pertussis (aP) portion of the vaccine? Or are the diptheria and tetanus portions equally ineffective?

Along those lines, it's been my understanding that the pertussis portion of the vaccine is what causes most of the reactivity. Is that correct? Would the DT vaccine be a less reactive option if one chooses to go that route? Or does the DT vaccine have its own set of problems (eg. thimerisol)?
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#10 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 08:51 PM
 
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aside from the million other issues folks are bringing up, here's some anecdotal info for you: DH works with someone who unknowingly had pertussis last fall (thought it was bronchitis...I actually helped diagnose her...I told H that pertussis is often mistaken for bronchitis, because I was freaked with the newbie in the house, he told her and she went to the DOH to get tested for it...Dr. Mom for you!). It scared the you know what out of me, because DD was less than 2 months old...it was before she'd have even been able to get the vax anyway. Now DH brings home just about every bug his coworkers get, but we were all fine, none of us caught pertussis. Obviously that's just one case, but honestly it made pertussis a lot less scary to me...it's clearly not THAT contagious.

And from what I understand of it...it's the kind of bug that is not airborne, you have to touch something that person has touched then touch your eyes, mouth, mucus membranes sort of deal. So as long as you keep her sorta clean, it seems like it should be fine.

I also missed how old your baby is? After 6 months it basically ceases to be fatal, and most people I talked to said a breastfed baby pretty much does NOT die from pertussis.

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#11 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 08:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by junomama View Post
When you say lowest efficacy rates, do you mean specifically for the pertussis (aP) portion of the vaccine? Or are the diptheria and tetanus portions equally ineffective?

Along those lines, it's been my understanding that the pertussis portion of the vaccine is what causes most of the reactivity. Is that correct? Would the DT vaccine be a less reactive option if one chooses to go that route? Or does the DT vaccine have its own set of problems (eg. thimerisol)?
Well...as far as the effectiveness of the T and D portions go...it's really an unknown. Tetanus is extremely really really rare...even though almost 50% of the population isn't technically immune. So that portion of the vax could be water for all we know, and no one would notice, coz it's just too rare to tell.

The diphtheria portion certainly isn't overtly failing all the time like the pertussis part is, but it's so underdiagnosed...who knows there, either? The CDC admits that diphtheria (yes, the toxogenic strain) is still circulating in the US, getting misdiagnosed as s.pneumo causing sinus infections and tonsillitis type stuff...and about half of us aren't immune to that one, either.
BUT...back in the day diphtheria used to cause really awful green and black membrane growths in people's throats, and we don't have ANY of that happening in the US at all. So either the bacteria has evolved to be less virulent, or the vax is a whole, whole lot more effective than anyone knows (as in, even antibodies to the toxins in quantities too low to show up as existing are still effective for preventing severe disease.)
It's really an unknown. Although you'd think if the answer was that the vax was just that good, we'd see the occasional unvaxed kid getting a nasty case of diphtheria every once in a while. But it never, ever happens. Ever. So who knows? It's a mystery.

But yeah, it's the pertussis portion that causes the bad reactions...and the only issue I know of with the dT is that it's nearly impossible to find without thimerosal. But honestly, I'd risk one shot with thimerosal over the pertussis toxoids. But...
Pertussis is the one disease that your baby might actually catch out of all three.

So it's a tough one. I do think there's a chance that if no one vaxed babies for pertussis, there might be 30 or 40 pertussis deaths a year instead of 10 or 20.
Or maybe not, too. Maybe those first couple of shots don't do anything to prevent pertussis. Nobody really knows. As weird as it sounds, it's never been studied.
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#12 of 12 Old 02-14-2007, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sasshell View Post
I am going to see a ped that will be releasing me after this visit if I do not agree to vax DD with what she deems "the important ones".
How can a doctor take it upon herself to threaten her patients? That is just awful. Must be making a lot of money off the vaccines. JMO


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One of the important ones is DTaP and she wanted me to know that a 4 month old died from pertussis in our city last week.
When she says something like that it is not fair to withhold complete information. Was the child vaccinated, bf, did the parents smoke (which I suspect), was the child a preemie, was there something else wrong with the child...??? There are too many unanswered questions. She only told you that a child of 4 mo. died. That only serves one purporse, to frighten you into complying. That is not what a doctor is supposed to do.

Of course, like many others I am stuck between vaxing my daughter and gambling she will not have negative reactions to the vax, or rolling the dice and taking a chance that she gets a disease and having to listen to everyone say "I told you so."
Vaccinating your daughter and seeing a possible side effect that could affect her whole life vs her getting an infection that lasts for maybe 10 days and people tell you "I told you so" are your concerns? But the choice should be obvious, shouldn't it?


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So my question is, just how hard is it to catch pertussis?
It's easy. Lots and lots of people have it every year and since it goes in cycles more people seem to get it every 5 yrs. But how many die of it. Hardly anyone in comparison.

YOu describe what all she does/not does. That is immaterial. She is strong and healthy, right? If so, let her stay that way. An injection, any injection can not possibly make a healthy person healthier. There is no such thing as injecting anything into a healthy child's blood stream and expect a positve result.


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Also-a woman at the doctor's office told me they have had patients who have bought their own vaccines (from where I do not know) and brought them in to be injected and felt more comfortable b/c they knew what was in the vax and where it came from.
I don't see how they could know what the ingredients are unless they made it themselves. How would they? It is still made by a vaccine manufacturer.




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I hate this. I wish I had the confidence that I see so many of you have in regards to not vaxing your babies. Why does this have to be so hard?
Because they have all the money to brainwash most people into mistrusting their own healthy body. They want you to bleive that unless you inject things you will not be able to live. That is just not true. Most people are much healthier without using most (or all) allopathic medicine and for sure injections.

Ultimately you are in charge of your child. The ped will pretend he doesn't even know your child if there is a vaccine reaction. You will be left dealing with it for the rest of your life.

I for one am very gald with our dicision not to vaccinate and will never ever change my mind. Good luck to you!
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