Do you wonder if most vax'd kids have issues? - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-19-2007, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was working in the church nursery today and ....maybe I spend too much time on this board but, a few of the peanuts in there just seemed to have behavior and sensory issues.
I am sensitive to kids development (more so socially) because of the challenges my ds3 has. I am just wondering how many of the kids I see or am around on an average day have issues related to vaccines.

How do we know what a normal toddler/preschooler is supposed to be capable of if we're injecting them with poisons from the get go, yk?

How much could/should we blame on vaccines and how much should/could be blamed on gm foods or air pollutants? :

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Old 02-19-2007, 04:49 AM
 
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Hmmm. I do think a majority of vaccinated individuals will eventually suffer some negative side effect, whether it becomes evident immediately or 20 years later. I do not believe most of them suffer extremely serious reactions (immediately or later) but I do believe the majority of people are negatively affected by the vaccines they receive in ways worse than just a fever or swelling after the injection, even if the effect is "just" a pollen allergy or difficulty concentrating or whatever. If I didn't believe that, I would have kept vaccinating my daughter.

Editing because I think I'm not being clear enough....

I don't think most vaccinated people are going to have a serious reaction to their vaccines. I think death and permanent disability are very rare. I just think that a majority will suffer some other effects that we consider minor, but that I don't want my daughter to have to deal with. Again, the adverse effects I'm talking about are NOT swelling at the injection site or fever. Those things wouldn't be enough to convince me not to vaccinate. So if someone posts freaked out that they vaxed, I would say that most people are fine after vaxes, because the things I'm thinking of probably wouldn't be immediately noticeable anyway, and probably won't be life threatening or hugely life altering when they are.
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:18 AM
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http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551522
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The incidence of esophageal cancer has risen dramatically in the United States, as obesity has reached epidemic proportions and led to increases in chronic reflux disease
Okay, isn't reflux a sign of a damaged or not healthy gut, and don't vaccines cause gut issues? And then add onto that, the use of formula....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...er_facilities/
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The rising number of Massachusetts residents with cancer will outstrip the capacity of radiation treatment facilities within four years, say public health officials, who for the first time in 13 years are asking hospitals that do not already offer such therapy to build expensive new treatment centers.
http://www.ewg.org/reports/bodyburden2/part3.php
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Asthma, autism, attention deficit and hyperactivity disorders (ADD and ADHD), childhood brain cancer and acute lymphocytic leukemia have all increased over the past 30 years.
This last article is excellent in terms of answering the OP's question.
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
How much could/should we blame on vaccines and how much should/could be blamed on gm foods or air pollutants? :
Genes, you forgot genes!

I don't think you can spot these things out so easily simply because most kids are vaccinated. This is the sad truth. If most were not, and in the crowd of non-vaccinated kids there were a few odd vaccinated ones, and all of them had obvious issues, then it would have been more obvious. So far it's the other way round - too few unvaccinated kids to really see the difference : Plus, indeed, a lot more things that affect kids in a bad way aside from the vaccines.
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:39 PM
 
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I think most kids have "issues" period, whether vaxed or unvaxed, due to vaxes (in the case of vaxed kids of course!), antibiotics, less-than-optimal diets, formula feeding, etc, etc. I know of too many unvaxed kids who have gut issues and many other issues related to those gut issues to think it all boils down to vaxes (not that they don't play a part).
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
I was working in the church nursery today and ....maybe I spend too much time on this board but, a few of the peanuts in there just seemed to have behavior and sensory issues.
I am sensitive to kids development (more so socially) because of the challenges my ds3 has. I am just wondering how many of the kids I see or am around on an average day have issues related to vaccines.

How do we know what a normal toddler/preschooler is supposed to be capable of if we're injecting them with poisons from the get go, yk?

How much could/should we blame on vaccines and how much should/could be blamed on gm foods or air pollutants? :
Gosh, behavior issues could result from ten MILLION different things, and the first thing I'd look to would be the parents. Not all, but lots of things are caused by the way parents treat their kids. Example: I watched a few kids for a while (at a friends funeral) and the mom of them came up to me and said, "Well, our son is just a MONSTER. He is awful. I'm not kidding. Seriously, he is EVIL, so be careful. He is just BAD." RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. The child, btw, was THREE YEARS OLD.

Incidentally he was perfectly fine, once he realized that his GROWLING like a monster (clearly taught him by his parents who believe him to be evil) did nothing for me. He was just a sweet little three year old. But what will he be in a few years of being told constantly that he is bad, evil, a monster?

Then you could add diet to the mix, as we all know that kids who are maxed out on sugar do not usually have the world's best behavior...

Then environment... sleep... my gosh, before you even get into toxins in the environment around them, there are ten million things to think of. HUGE things. Vs. the teeeeeeensy amount of anything in any vaccine. Not that vax's cannot have an effect.. maybe they can. But it sure wouldn't be the first thing I'd look to in the event of a behavior problem with a child. It's just my opinion, but I'd start with the most obvious potential sources before moving down the list to the more obscure.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:17 PM
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:35 PM
 
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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I agree that vaccines certainly leave their marks either right after being injected or in the years that follow. And cancer is IMO deffinitely increasing (especially in little children) because of what is being injected into their bodies.

But I also agree that there are many other things that affect kids (actually all of us) in a negative way.

Fluoride in water, GMF, all allopathic meds, chemical polution, pesticides....on and on.

When I raised my kids it was still faily easy.

These days you moms are taking your children through a mine field.
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Vs. the teeeeeeensy amount of anything in any vaccine. Not that vax's cannot have an effect.. maybe they can. But it sure wouldn't be the first thing I'd look to in the event of a behavior problem with a child. It's just my opinion, but I'd start with the most obvious potential sources before moving down the list to the more obscure.
Teeeeensy amounts of certain substances are certainly capable of causing damage--it's been well documented than minuscle (sp?) amounts of mercury and fluoride, for instance, can cause significant harm. Why would small amounts of toxins in vaccines be incapable of causing harm?
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:11 PM
 
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I know plenty of non-vaxed kids with issues -- autism, behavior problems, and learning disabilities. I think its sad to pick out kids and determine that any problem they have has to do with vaccines. In fact its a ludicriuos.
There is also a reason we see a rise in most the things listed in this thread -- its called advances in medicine and medical research and testing. Our population has also grown as well. So many things come into play -- you can't just say its one thing or all of them.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:24 PM
 
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More false dichotomy... Since "bad" parenting causes harm, then the toxins can't be hurting us! :

This isn't logical.

Nor is a larger population argument. It's measured by proportion.

And if "so many things come into play", what convinces you that that idea exonerates vaccines?
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Vs. the teeeeeeensy amount of anything in any vaccine. Not that vax's cannot have an effect.. maybe they can.
Speaking of the "teeeeeensy amounts of anything in any vaccine," which ingredient in its "teeeeeeesy" amount causes the following recognized vaccine adverse reactions?

encephalitis
diabetes
thrombocytopenic purpura
GBS
meningitis
seizure disorder
convulsions
crying/screaming syndrome
diarrhea
hair loss
tranverse myelitis
chronic arthritis
death

among other recognized adverse reactions.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:38 PM
 
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I often wonder the same thing. When I see kids who constantly cover their ears and do not interact at all socially, and also have very delayed speech, I wonder if those children are autistic and if by chance it could have been related to vaccine administration. I cannot see how this behavior is normal for a 2, 3, or 4 year old, and with the epidemic increase in autism over the recent decade, what else has changed so rapidly on such a wide scale other then the progressively-expanding vaccine schedule? :

Mama of 10yo dd, 7 yo ds, and 22 month old ds. No VAX, Anti-Circ, Lactivist, EC, UCB x 2. 

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Old 02-19-2007, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
I know plenty of non-vaxed kids with issues
Really? Where are these non-vax'd children? Do you ask every parent what their child suffers from and then ask if they vaccinate or not?
I am not sure if they exist, but I have not come across a single study comparing vax'd with non-vax'd children and any of those issues. :

If we want to compare anecdotal evidence, EVERY vax'd child I know has issues ranging from extreme excema to full blown autism. Not one single un-vax'd child I know has ANY of those issues.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Why would small amounts of toxins in vaccines be incapable of causing harm?
Because all studies conducted with those toxins say they must be ingested or inhaled in LARGE amounts to do damage!
There has never been a study on injecting such toxins, or if there is, it would be unethical.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:50 PM
 
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There is also a reason we see a rise in most the things listed in this thread -- its called advances in medicine and medical research and testing.
Ah yes, the advances in medicine.

It's so heartwearming to see those 2 and 3 year old toddlers getting the antidepressents, schitzophrenia and bipolar meds they so desperately need.

Not to mention all the ones with "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" and "Conduct Disorder" they're no longer letting slip through the cracks because of the advances.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post
Speaking of the "teeeeeensy amounts of anything in any vaccine," which ingredient in its "teeeeeeesy" amount causes the following recognized vaccine adverse reactions?

encephalitis
diabetes
thrombocytopenic purpura
GBS
meningitis
seizure disorder
convulsions
crying/screaming syndrome
diarrhea
hair loss
tranverse myelitis
chronic arthritis
death

among other recognized adverse reactions.
:

I'd also like to know how the provaxers feel about teeeensy tiny amounts of aluminum hydroxide induced neuron death.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
If we want to compare anecdotal evidence, EVERY vax'd child I know has issues ranging from extreme excema to full blown autism. Not one single un-vax'd child I know has ANY of those issues.
Seriously? No offense, but that is a little hard to believe! Virtually all the kids I know are fully vaxed, none has autism, a couple have ADD/ADHD, and a few have (known) allergies, asthma, or eczema...although I would guess an awful lot of them have undiagnosed food allergies because most of them have enormous "allergy eyes" circles under their eyes. On the other hand, my fully unvaxed, antibiotic-free, homebirthed, all natural baby has eczema (mild fortunately) and more food allergies than any other kid I know
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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Really? Where are these non-vax'd children? Do you ask every parent what their child suffers from and then ask if they vaccinate or not?
I am not sure if they exist, but I have not come across a single study comparing vax'd with non-vax'd children and any of those issues. :

If we want to compare anecdotal evidence, EVERY vax'd child I know has issues ranging from extreme excema to full blown autism. Not one single un-vax'd child I know has ANY of those issues.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was fairly certain that there were a couple of mamas on MDC whose kids are un-vaxed and have autism.

My crew are vaxed. My oldest has zero allergies. My daughter had excema issues right up until we figured out the lactose intolerance. My two youngest sons have zero allergies. So, I guess it must be girl thing.....at least in my house.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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I don't know how much you can blame on vaccines or not. I think they are just a part of the problem, and more so for some than for others. There's just so many toxic things in our environment that it is hard to pinpoint one thing...more of an accumulation as many people say.

I try to keep from making comparisons between my two boys. One being vaxed up to 18 months, the other not at all. There are differences, but who's to know if it vax related or not? I honestly have no idea.

In my opinion, a little bit of poison isn't acceptable. Every little bit I can keep away from my family, the better we will be. That and injecting, even minute amounts of poison into the body, bypassing our body's natural defense system, just seems wrong.

Mom to two boys, ages 8 and 11, and one blessing due May 8th.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551522
Okay, isn't reflux a sign of a damaged or not healthy gut, and don't vaccines cause gut issues? And then add onto that, the use of formula....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...er_facilities/


http://www.ewg.org/reports/bodyburden2/part3.php

This last article is excellent in terms of answering the OP's question.
Not sure I'd be concerned about a link to reflux. I've had three babies with reflux - the first was severe, but undiagnosed ( GP and I realise it now). He wasnt vaccinated till he was 12 months old as we chose to delay, and he was exclusively breastfed till 8 months, then had vegetables only till one year. Obviously vaccines didnt cause his reflux.

My next reflux baby was my 6th (the 4 in between had no reflux or colic). Out of the blue again - not vaxed till 12 months, SEVERE reflux from 10 days old, medicated on losec (omeprazole) 30mg per day - triple what my adult mother is on, and barely controlled. He was exclusively breastfed till 9 months, and I was dairy and wheat free to try and help him. He then had food intolerances till aged 2 when his reflux suddenly disappeared. He was intolerant of: avocado, tomatoes, banana, apple, rice, all citrus, several vegetables; and dairy.

My 7th has very very mild reflux - controlled on a minimal dose of losec, with absolutely no food issues. He is now 14 months and off his meds, completely free of reflux.


I was also told that my 4ths many ear infections were caused by vaccinations. Until I mentioned that he had had 10 infections requiring antibiotics in his first 12 months. He wasnt vaccinated till age 2. By which time he was over his ear infections because at 18 months he had grommets (tubes in his ears) and has never had another infection.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:34 PM
 
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One word. Dosage. I think that people are forgetting that these small amounts of toxins are being injected into newborns and infants whose immune system ranges from undeveloped to immature. An adult getting a vaccine may not be affected as much as an infant, since a healthy adult has the metabolism to eliminate certain toxins from the body, but a baby does not have this capacity. The amount of mercury that an infant receives in its first year of vax supercedes the max amount of exposure allowed by the EPA. Mercury and other heavy metals, like aluminum, get lodged in the brain. Where are the studies to show how much goes from the vaccine to the brain and how much gets excreted? You'll be hard pressed to find them.

Are vaccines the only thing to blame? No. The high C/s rate (prevents newborn from being exposed to mama's bacteria), that one bottle of formula in the hospital (ruining the virgin gut), abysmal bfing rates, the SAD and the cutting of funding for Physical Education and sports in schools all contribute to a child's health, or lack thereof. However, one cannot ignore the exponential leap in autism diagnosis. Injecting toxins into a tiny baby does not go without consequence.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Teeeeensy amounts of certain substances are certainly capable of causing damage--it's been well documented than minuscle (sp?) amounts of mercury and fluoride, for instance, can cause significant harm. Why would small amounts of toxins in vaccines be incapable of causing harm?
I completely agree. Even minute amounts of toxins can affect some individuals.

However, I'm willing to bet there are more toxins in the accumulative food we eat than in the vaccines an individual gets. Pesticides, GM food, herbicides, preservatives...so many chemicals in every day life.

Then theres the fire retardants and chemicals in dyes, fabrics, etc in our furniture. The paint/paper on our walls. The insecticides many of us use in our homes, the pure chemicals many of us clean and wash with, and dab onto our skin.

Heck I am VERY worried about the cummulative effect of thick sunblocking chemicals and perfumes in sunblock that may parents put on their kids many times a year - being absorbed through the skin into those tiny vulnerable bodies.

And I am MUCH more concerned about the effect of ultrasound on unborn fetuses. Now THAT is something to be concerned with - plenty of research finding links with USS and autism.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:38 PM
 
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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I have one vaxed and one unvaxed kid and no, I don't generally wonder about whether other kids have issues related to vaccinations.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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The main problem is that so many kids have these health issues that they're becoming "normal." For example, a friend of mine was saying how her 5mo is constantly sick, and she acts like it's perfectly normal for her baby to keep on getting sick (or maybe he just never quite gets over this one cold?) all winter long. None of my babies was ever that sick- sure they had little colds but nothing that didn't clear up within a few days. This little guy is 100% BF, she doesn't eat junk food, they don't live on top of a toxic waste dump- the only major difference between her kids and mine is that she vaccinates on schedual. Oh, yeah, and prenatal u/s, and her general view of allopathic medicine and antibiotics/tylenol for babies- I guess it really is hard to pinpoint.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:53 PM
 
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there are ten million things to think of. HUGE things. Vs. the teeeeeeensy amount of anything in any vaccine.
I know I've posted this before, but I get annoyed when people make mention of the fact that vaccines have such a teeeeeeeeensy amount of poison in them that they can't possibly be as damaging as some people say. What exactly is a teeeeensy amount of poison?

As I've stated before, I'm 6'2" over 200lbs and have always been involved in sports. I've kept my body in great shape and rarely got even slightly ill. I received ONE shot and my body fell apart. I've listed the details in other posts so I won't bore anyone with them again. I received ONE shot as a healthy adult while children receive dozens of shots with a developing immune system. I'm living proof that the teeeeeeensy amount thing is completely bogus.

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Old 02-19-2007, 10:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scattershoot View Post
I know I've posted this before, but I get annoyed when people make mention of the fact that vaccines have such a teeeeeeeeensy amount of poison in them that they can't possibly be as damaging as some people say. What exactly is a teeeeensy amount of poison?

As I've stated before, I'm 6'2" over 200lbs and have always been involved in sports. I've kept my body in great shape and rarely got even slightly ill. I received ONE shot and my body fell apart. I've listed the details in other posts so I won't bore anyone with them again. I received ONE shot as a healthy adult while children receive dozens of shots with a developing immune system. I'm living proof that the teeeeeeensy amount thing is completely bogus.
If the teeeeensy tiny amounts were that small, then vaccines wouldn't ever have any effect. The put the adjuvants and antigens in there to create a BIG effect.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:07 PM
 
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I can only tell you my experiences.

My oldest had all the vax's required up to age 4. She is 8 and there are more now than were available 4 years ago. She has no behaviour/sensory/immune issues.

My middle dd had all the vax's up to 18months that were available and then against my better judgement prevnar. There was 1 other one they wanted her to get, that they couldn't give me any info on and that was my limit, no vax's for any of them since. She is almost 6 and has no behaviour/sensory/immune issues even having a suppressed immune system due to a heart defect.

My youngest dd had all vax's up to 12months that were available then, except cp cause it's the cp. She IS sensory and has mild behaviour issues(no immune problems)(nothing bad, just alot of needing redirection to get her to listen). However she has been like this since she was born and is more likely a direct cause of being deprived of O2 during pregnancy & birth.

There are no vax's that are given at birth here, hep b is given at age 11/12.

Now to look at myself though. I was given a MMR booster at age 11. That same year I started reacting to dairy. Whether it was a result of the vax or from my mother's stance on giving me cereal at 2weeks, then formula at 6 and 2% milk at 4 who knows.lol I also don't know if it was a cause on why all 3 of my kids have dairy issues to different extents. Now that same year I got the MMR booster I started having dizzy spells and getting silver flashes in my vision and heart palpitations. It also started my every other year of Whooping Cough that I had for 10 years. The dizzy spells got bad enough that I started having them several times a day within a few years(right around the time I had a Meningitis vax due to the outbreak that was going on). 5 years ago I went on medications for them because it was affecting my breathing and ability to do things(about a year or 2 after I had another meningitis vax). I went off those meds last June due to the weight gain they were causing and oddly don't have the severity of it. I do not think any of it is a coincidence, just as I do not think it is a coincidence that my sister got RA months after getting her Hep B vax for nursing school.

With the number of vax's they have now it is just scary to think of the problems they are causing for the generations who are getting it and how that changing of their DNA will affect future generations.
CarrieMF is offline  
 
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