will anyone play a "what if" game with me? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
mamatoady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western Michigan
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Let me preface by stating that I have not yet vaxed my 4.5 and 1 year old, but in attempt to constantly be on top of my stance, I have some questions.

1) In the event that my child has a poopy, rusty nail shoved through her foot and I determine that a tetnus shot is warranted, is it too late to drive her to the ER to get a tetnus shot? It was my understanding that they'll give you a shot anyway, so I'm having a hard time validating giving a tetnus shot to begin with as routine. What circumstances might warrant routine tetnus shot living here in the US.

2) Lets say one of my children has whooping cough, which frankly sounds like pure hell to me, but my other child has no signs of it yet, would it be too late given that it's in my household, to get my other child an emergency vax?

3) if there was an oubreak (ok, 1 or more) of a disease on your child's school, would you just keep your kid home or would you also get them an emergency vax?

Is it wrongly selfish of me to be more concerned about my own child's health than the health of all the other children? Isn't that my job? to protect MY child? Do you think if everyone who vaxe's stopped vaxinating their children there would be a whole new outbreak of disease? Just rambling...is that bad? (I only ask that last part because from what I'm reading, most of these diseases aren't as bad as people make them out to be...like it wouldn't be horrible if people altogether stopped vaxing for chicken pox.)

basically, I'm opposed to vax unless I see that there is a real threat, then I *might* not be so opposed. also, up until kindergarten roundup, I haven't been concerned about the possibility of my kids getting sick, but the thought of sending her to school next year scares the sh'&^ out of me.

TIA,
sarah
sarah

Mama to girl (11), boy (7) and girl (4).  "Can't we all just get along?" joy.gif
mamatoady is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 12:30 PM
 
krizzanne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1. If the wound was bleeding and you took dc to the ER they WOULD give you a tetanus shot, but it would not help that particular puncture wound. If the ER was worried about tetanus infection in that wound, DC would recieve a Tetanus immunoglobulin.

2. There is no emergency vax for whooping cough, it takes time to build up the immunity, that's why 3 or more vaxes are on the schedule.

3. To answer your question 'No, I would not' because I believe at the point you are worried about comming in contact with the disease, you want to strengthen the immune system, and vaxes initially weaken the immune system.
From what I know, in a meningitis outbreak for example, statistics seem to indicate that mass vaccination does help, BUT in most the outbreaks a couple of the people who HAVE recieved the emergency vax STILL get infected, (I can't help wondering if they got it from the vax itself....).

keep researching: if you are scared, you really don't understand the issue, or you should be vaxing.

- 7; - 5; - 2; --due 4/11
krizzanne is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 12:32 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
1) In the event that my child has a poopy, rusty nail shoved through her foot and I determine that a tetnus shot is warranted, is it too late to drive her to the ER to get a tetnus shot? It was my understanding that they'll give you a shot anyway, so I'm having a hard time validating giving a tetnus shot to begin with as routine. What circumstances might warrant routine tetnus shot living here in the US.
At that point, it would be the tetanus immune globulin (TIG) that you would want. It gives a very temporary immunity to tetanus. A lot of times they want to give the vaccine at the same time, but it wouldn't have an actual potential benefit for that wound. It just more of a "While you're here, we might as well..." thing.

Quote:
2) Lets say one of my children has whooping cough, which frankly sounds like pure hell to me, but my other child has no signs of it yet, would it be too late given that it's in my household, to get my other child an emergency vax?
Yep. Too late for the vax. But there's a small chance that taking antibiotics early in the course of infection can ease the course of the disease. Technically, the best research says it doesn't (althought it will make you less contagious), but the research is conflicting, and I personally know people who swear it's helped.

Quote:
3) if there was an oubreak (ok, 1 or more) of a disease on your child's school, would you just keep your kid home or would you also get them an emergency vax?
Depends on the disease. Chickenpox? No, no emergency vax. Measles? Yeah, I would. But my reasoning there is kinda complicated. It's not that I'm afraid that my own kid would have a horrible time with measles, but I think it would be bad for infants if there was a big epidemic now.

Quote:
Is it wrongly selfish of me to be more concerned about my own child's health than the health of all the other children? Isn't that my job? to protect MY child?
Depends on who you ask, I guess.

Quote:
Do you think if everyone who vaxe's stopped vaxinating their children there would be a whole new outbreak of disease?
What would happen would be different for every disease. Measles is the only one I honestly see bringing a huge amount of morbidity and mortality with it.

Quote:
(I only ask that last part because from what I'm reading, most of these diseases aren't as bad as people make them out to be...like it wouldn't be horrible if people altogether stopped vaxing for chicken pox
Right. They're all different.
mamakay is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
mamatoady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western Michigan
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krizzanne View Post

keep researching: if you are scared, you really don't understand the issue, or you should be vaxing.
thank you for your information, but I completely disagree with you on this last part. I'm under the belief of NOT vaccinating until I'm convinced to do so, you can't undo a vax! this sounds like something a vaccine pushing doctor would say...."well, you don't understand, so just do it...everyone else is":

thank you for the previous info though.
sarah

Mama to girl (11), boy (7) and girl (4).  "Can't we all just get along?" joy.gif
mamatoady is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 01:13 PM
Banned
 
Yulia_R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lafayette, CO
Posts: 2,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keep researching mama!
Here is an awesome movie about vaccination

http://www.dark-truth.org/okt19-2006-2.html

Also read a very interesting article/study about aluminum used in vaccines.

http://www.straight.com/article/vacc...-sinister-side .
yulia.
Yulia_R is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 03:39 PM
 
NatureMama3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Catching life's curveballs
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1. no, it's not too late. there are even then options, though. You can go for cleaning the wound thoroughly (with oxygen containing things such as hydrogen peroxide-tetanus is anaerobic) and put on a drawing poultice then dose the child with high dose vitamin C, echinacea and raw garlic. I have done this for a child who ripped their leg with a rusty barbed wire and it worked well. there is also human tetanus IvIg which can be administered to those allergic to the vaccine (such as myself).

2. the vax series for WC would take too long for building up immunity--if it even did work for that child. I would start treating the other children with immune stimulating herbs and high dose vitamin C (sodium ascorbate) and assume they will get it. Even those who have had the vax CAN get it when exposed.

3. I would keep my child home. I'm not willing to sacrifice them for anything, school included.

My kids are more important to me than the theory of herd immunity. I definitely recommend you research how to treat the diseases should they happen, because even 100% vaccinated kids aren't necessarily immune to them. I'm not aware of any vaccine that comes with a 100% immunity rate.
NatureMama3 is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 06:47 PM
 
krizzanne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamatoady View Post
thank you for your information, but I completely disagree with you on this last part. I'm under the belief of NOT vaccinating until I'm convinced to do so, you can't undo a vax! this sounds like something a vaccine pushing doctor would say...."well, you don't understand, so just do it...everyone else is":

thank you for the previous info though.
sarah

Sorry, I knew there was something wrong with me saying that, but I was in a hurry and just pushed submit. I totally agree with you about no vax until convinced...I again apologize for that statement!! I meant it to be encouraging, but reading it, it sounds rude!

- 7; - 5; - 2; --due 4/11
krizzanne is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 07:02 PM
 
nataliachick7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinios
Posts: 1,836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatureMama3 View Post
1. no, it's not too late. there are even then options, though. You can go for cleaning the wound thoroughly (with oxygen containing things such as hydrogen peroxide-tetanus is anaerobic) and put on a drawing poultice then dose the child with high dose vitamin C, echinacea and raw garlic. I have done this for a child who ripped their leg with a rusty barbed wire and it worked well. there is also human tetanus IvIg which can be administered to those allergic to the vaccine (such as myself).

2. the vax series for WC would take too long for building up immunity--if it even did work for that child. I would start treating the other children with immune stimulating herbs and high dose vitamin C (sodium ascorbate) and assume they will get it. Even those who have had the vax CAN get it when exposed.

3. I would keep my child home. I'm not willing to sacrifice them for anything, school included.

My kids are more important to me than the theory of herd immunity. I definitely recommend you research how to treat the diseases should they happen, because even 100% vaccinated kids aren't necessarily immune to them. I'm not aware of any vaccine that comes with a 100% immunity rate.
what form is the Vitamin C in for an infant?

DS 5-11-06
nataliachick7 is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 07:11 PM
 
Crisstiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I pretty much agree with everything Mamakay said, except I am more concerned about some of the VPDs.

While I agree that measles could cause a significant amount of mortality and morbidity, I also be concerned about congenital rubella, a resurgence of epiglottitis, diphtheria, and the possible complications of the mumps. I also would be concerned about the large number of immunocompromised people who are walking around these days. This population has dramatically increased in the last several decades and would be much more vulnerable to some of these diseases.
Crisstiana is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 07:48 PM
 
NatureMama3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Catching life's curveballs
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
here's one listed on mdc archives:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...p/t-43682.html

The post pertaining to dosage, form and breastfeeding infants is about halfway down the page.
NatureMama3 is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 09:00 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisstiana View Post
I pretty much agree with everything Mamakay said, except I am more concerned about some of the VPDs.

While I agree that measles could cause a significant amount of mortality and morbidity, I also be concerned about congenital rubella, a resurgence of epiglottitis, diphtheria, and the possible complications of the mumps. I also would be concerned about the large number of immunocompromised people who are walking around these days. This population has dramatically increased in the last several decades and would be much more vulnerable to some of these diseases.
I guess I'd be worried about CRS and mumps complications if everyone totally and completely stopped vaccinating alltogether. I was sort of thinking in terms of childhood vaccines, and in my imaginary world, people would check titres around puberty and vax then for mumps and rubella if they weren't immune. Same as I think it should be for chickenpox. I guess there might be more immunocompromised folks now, but varicella deaths have remained fairly constant over the decades, so I don't think the difference can be that great.

From what I understand, epiglotittis was always a one in 100,000 type thing, which does add up to more than a few kids when you're thinking in terms of 4 million birth cohorts, or worldwide figures. But it's still not something I personally see as a huge factor in pediatric health in the grand scheme of things. And from what I understand, epiglotittis, like all invasive Hib diseases, generally hit those with specific risk factors. So as long as those skipping the vax were the ones without the risk factors, it might not even make a big come back, since the vaccine is extremely effective, and it's not a disease that relies on herd immunity.

With diphtheria, you might be right. But since the vax doesn't disrupt transmission, and the bacteria is still endemic in many parts of the US, but not doing "classic diphtheria" stuff...I'm not sure what's going on there. But you could be right. I'm just not sure.
mamakay is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 09:06 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,617
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamatoady View Post
1) In the event that my child has a poopy, rusty nail shoved through her foot and I determine that a tetnus shot is warranted, is it too late to drive her to the ER to get a tetnus shot? It was my understanding that they'll give you a shot anyway, so I'm having a hard time validating giving a tetnus shot to begin with as routine. What circumstances might warrant routine tetnus shot living here in the US.
As a PP stated you wouldn't get the tetanus shot, you would get TIG. I can tell you my about my eldest who was at farm camp when she was about 9 years old. She was in a horse pasture and ran into a barbedwire fence and badly cut her leg. She was under the responsibilty of the farmer's wife who knew our feelings (and agreed) about vaccinations and was well versed in the healing arts. She did not bring our DD to the ER, but cared for the wound herself, cleaned it, dressed it with butterfly bandaids (no doubt she would have had stitches and a tetanus shot in the ER), and gave her raw beet juice to drink to thin the blood. Needless to say she didn't develop tetanus.

Quote:
2) Lets say one of my children has whooping cough, which frankly sounds like pure hell to me, but my other child has no signs of it yet, would it be too late given that it's in my household, to get my other child an emergency vax?
My youngest two (unvaxed) had pertussis two years ago and it was annoying but pretty much nothing. Vitamin C in mega doses reverses the symptoms very well. I wouldn't give antibotics. Anyway, there is no guarantee a vaxed child won't get pertussis.

Quote:
3) if there was an oubreak (ok, 1 or more) of a disease on your child's school, would you just keep your kid home or would you also get them an emergency vax?
I would never vax my children willingly, so they would stay home.

t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
#13 of 24 Old 04-22-2007, 09:59 PM
 
Crisstiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
I guess I'd be worried about CRS and mumps complications if everyone totally and completely stopped vaccinating alltogether. I was sort of thinking in terms of childhood vaccines, and in my imaginary world, people would check titres around puberty and vax then for mumps and rubella if they weren't immune. Same as I think it should be for chickenpox. I guess there might be more immunocompromised folks now, but varicella deaths have remained fairly constant over the decades, so I don't think the difference can be that great.

From what I understand, epiglotittis was always a one in 100,000 type thing, which does add up to more than a few kids when you're thinking in terms of 4 million birth cohorts, or worldwide figures. But it's still not something I personally see as a huge factor in pediatric health in the grand scheme of things. And from what I understand, epiglotittis, like all invasive Hib diseases, generally hit those with specific risk factors. So as long as those skipping the vax were the ones without the risk factors, it might not even make a big come back, since the vaccine is extremely effective, and it's not a disease that relies on herd immunity.

With diphtheria, you might be right. But since the vax doesn't disrupt transmission, and the bacteria is still endemic in many parts of the US, but not doing "classic diphtheria" stuff...I'm not sure what's going on there. But you could be right. I'm just not sure.
I'm not sure either and would be suspicious of anyone who was as this is all just conjecture. FWIW, the stats from one study on epiglottitis before the Hib vax put the incidence at 1 in 10,000. Not huge, but as this can be a life-threatening emergency, I find it scary. My dad is a retired ped, and he used to see a cases few a year. They stand out in his mind for the quickness in which the child would get into big trouble after being able to walk into his office. I haven't heard about risk factors, aside from being male, but I have heard reports of epiglottitis in kids who have received the Hib vax, although I haven't researched it much. You could be right. I'm just not sure.

I wish the CDC would put out more reliable and complete information. I find its "What Would Happen" page not very helpful and its incidence graphs for specific VPDs useless.
Crisstiana is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 12:22 AM
 
DQMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamatoady View Post
Do you think if everyone who vaxe's stopped vaxinating their children there would be a whole new outbreak of disease?
Hmm, I guess I don't understand the herd immunity theory very well. I know posters on here tend to disagree on it.

Isn't it true that vaxes wear off? For example, I know quite a few women in their 30s who tested negative for rubella antibodies at the OB and received an MMR after delivery. Men don't do this obviously so who knows how many of them had their MMR wear off. I tested positive w/ ds but negative w/ dd, and declined the MMR, so I am walking around not immune and I don't worry about it. Although maybe I should since those childhood diseases can be dangerous in adults.

So by not vaxing, aren't we just making childhood diseases into adult diseases?

And in a few years aren't the diseases going to start coming back in the 30 and 40-somethings who are too young to have had the diseases but too old for their vaxes to still be working?

I would think that is enough of the herd for herd immunity to not work.

But I am asking, because there may be a big piece of the puzzle that I am missing or not understanding.
DQMama is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 12:47 AM
Spy
 
Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your 'too late' kind of implies that vaccines actually somehow prevent the diseases, given not too late, which is not necessarily true .

1. I suspect there is a certain confusion between two 'tetanus shots' - vaccine and TIG. I wouldn't say it's 'too late' for the vaccine, I'd say it will be pointless in relation to this particular case, because even if we believe in vaccine-induced tetanus immunity, it takes time to develop. TIG you might or might not choose depending on how scared you are at the time and under the circumstances. I personally haven't used either.

2. Again, 'too late' is irrelevant as there is very little evidence vaccine does anything in terms of pertussis prevention, no matter when it's given and how many times

3. No, I would definitely not do 'emergency vax', neither would I withdraw my child from school unless I am forced to, in which case I will - by the time an outbreak is noted, children are well and truly exposed, and we don't generally avoid exposure as I don't see it as a problem.
Spy is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 01:23 AM
 
Gitti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ready to move on...
Posts: 14,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DQMama View Post
Hmm, I guess I don't understand the herd immunity theory very well.
You are not the only one. That's why it's a theory only. And I have to say I do NOT believe in it.

Quote:
I tested positive ..... negative w/ dd,........... so I am walking around not immune.
Not necessarily because the tests are not conclusive. We don't really understand immunity. We don't understand the immune system. And many who are supposedly 'immune' come down with the infection while others 'not immune' are spared in an epidemic.

Quote:
So by not vaxing, aren't we just making childhood diseases into adult diseases?
That is the only thing vaccines are most likely going to do - cause an epidemiological shift.

Quote:
And in a few years aren't the diseases going to start coming back in the 30 and 40-somethings who are too young to have had the diseases but too old for their vaxes to still be working?
For sure vaccines are making a mess out of our immune system.

Quote:
I would think that is enough of the herd for herd immunity to not work.
Her immunity is a fantasy.

Quote:
But I am asking, because there may be a big piece of the puzzle that I am missing or not understanding.
Neither do I. That big piece is missing altogether. :
Gitti is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 03:21 AM
 
tiffer23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The others all answered the original questions. I was going to say that Hylands makes a baby Vitamin C tablet from sodium ascorbate, it dissolves almost immediately just like their teething tablets. I use them when DS gets a cold or any other sickness and it has really lessened the sicknesses for him!!
tiffer23 is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 09:32 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,669
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you feel the vaccines do work then you should j do them now instead of waiting for an emergency situation.If a vaccine does work it will generally take 3-5 doses(3 for tet and 5 for pertussis) to be considered protected.

I would not take into consideration herd/vax status to help me decide what to do with my own.If there was an outbreak we would stay home. If they get a disease we would treat it.

Research the vaccines you want to give,look into family health history as it relates to your children,look into treatment options for diseases,and go whatever path you feel is best.
mattemma04 is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 12:13 PM
 
lizette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisstiana View Post
I pretty much agree with everything Mamakay said, except I am more concerned about some of the VPDs.

While I agree that measles could cause a significant amount of mortality and morbidity, I also be concerned about congenital rubella, a resurgence of epiglottitis, diphtheria, and the possible complications of the mumps. I also would be concerned about the large number of immunocompromised people who are walking around these days. This population has dramatically increased in the last several decades and would be much more vulnerable to some of these diseases.
If you actually look at the data, there are very strong indicators that the reason we have such a huge increasing population of people with chronic diseases and compromised immune systems is becuase they never actually had the childhood diseases that are part of "normal" childhood. These childhood diseases are part of the maturation of the immune system, when they are suppressed through vaccination, chronic illness and dysfunctional immune systems are the result. Exposure to, battling with and recovery from infectious agents at a young age is critical for the normal development of the immune system.

In response to the original posters questions about emergency vaccines if there were an imminent or obvious exposure- Wanting an emergency vaccine to protect your child assumes that the vaccines are safer than the disease itself and that they actually work. Many times they don't. With whooping cough especially, but with all the others as well there are numerous outbreaks of a particular disease in 100% vaccinated populations. So by vaccinating, you not only expose your child to all the risks of the vaccines, but they are not necessarily protected from the disease either.
lizette is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 02:14 PM
 
lokidoki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Cackalacky
Posts: 1,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why would you give an emergency vaccine if you don't give them to begin with? I do not vax because I am not convinced of their safety nor am I convinced of their effectiveness -- and neither of those two variables will change if there is an outbreak of a disease...and IMHO the vaccine will do nothing for the outbreak of the disease.

I guess I just do not understand why you would give a vax during an outbreak (other than as a 'scare' response) as it is not what will keep your child from getting that disease or illness. And perhaps it has to do with your own research/info as to why you do not vax. If you are not vaxing and relying on the herd immunity theory...and then when the herd gets sick it gets scary...that is the only thing I can see that would cause one to vax in those circumstances...

Wife to DH (06/09/01), Mother to DS coolshine.gif (04/10/06) saynovax.gif and rescuer of dachshunds ~ and joy.gifthat our rainbow1284.gif arrived (06/10/11) safe and sound. Love cd.gif our little one ~ and lactivist.gif

lokidoki is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 03:24 PM
 
Crisstiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizette View Post
If you actually look at the data, there are very strong indicators that the reason we have such a huge increasing population of people with chronic diseases and compromised immune systems is becuase they never actually had the childhood diseases that are part of "normal" childhood. These childhood diseases are part of the maturation of the immune system, when they are suppressed through vaccination, chronic illness and dysfunctional immune systems are the result. Exposure to, battling with and recovery from infectious agents at a young age is critical for the normal development of the immune system.
Do you have published, peer-reviewed references for this? And as we are talking about vaccines, when you say "childhood diseases" are you talking about VPDs? If so, which ones?

Thanks.
Crisstiana is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 04-23-2007, 06:35 PM
 
DQMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post

Depends on the disease. Chickenpox? No, no emergency vax. Measles? Yeah, I would. But my reasoning there is kinda complicated. It's not that I'm afraid that my own kid would have a horrible time with measles, but I think it would be bad for infants if there was a big epidemic now.


Depends on who you ask, I guess.



What would happen would be different for every disease. Measles is the only one I honestly see bringing a huge amount of morbidity and mortality with it.


Right. They're all different.
MK, are you saying that personally you would not worry that measles would hurt your own child, but the "huge amount of morbidity and mortality" would be from maybe the elderly, the immunocompromised, and infants?

As far as infants, is it true that babies under a year have antibodies from their mothers? Or is that not the case in this day and age, since most of us have had the vax and not the real thing?

I have been telling myself that I am not afraid of VPDs but I wonder now about measles based on what you said.
DQMama is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 04-24-2007, 01:46 AM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DQMama View Post
MK, are you saying that personally you would not worry that measles would hurt your own child, but the "huge amount of morbidity and mortality" would be from maybe the elderly, the immunocompromised, and infants?

As far as infants, is it true that babies under a year have antibodies from their mothers? Or is that not the case in this day and age, since most of us have had the vax and not the real thing?

I have been telling myself that I am not afraid of VPDs but I wonder now about measles based on what you said.
Before the vax, infants had immunity for a year. Now it only lasts a couple of months. (it probably is because of a mix of vax immunity being weaker, and with measles transmission disrupted, no one get "boostered" by periodic exposure to contagious kids).
And measles is not only really deadly immediately in infants, but there's this horrific condition called "subacute sclerosing panencephalitis " that can strike kids years after recovering from measles. And it happens a lot more often when the child caught measles before the age of one. (Luckily, it's still really rare even then).
mamakay is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 04-25-2007, 09:20 AM
 
superlori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
And measles is not only really deadly immediately in infants, but there's this horrific condition called "subacute sclerosing panencephalitis " that can strike kids years after recovering from measles. And it happens a lot more often when the child caught measles before the age of one. (Luckily, it's still really rare even then).

I'm not at all saying you are wrong, because I don't know much about measles in infants, but recently I've known of a few babies under one with measles, and aside from being rather grumpy, they got through it fine. Would you say this is uncommon? I know it's not good for under-ones to get measles, but immediately deadly?

ETA: I just noticed that last parenthetical remark about it being rare. Sorry about that.
superlori is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off