Why are most doctors pro-vax? - Page 10 - Mothering Forums

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#271 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 04:16 PM
 
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At the risk of going WAY off topic.....

I remember once reading an article written by a Ukrainian surgeon who had used an online translator to translate the text from Russian to English (he had asked me to proofread because he had wanted to submit it somewhere or other). Anyway, the translation program rendered his description of performing a mastectomy as "deleting a tit" Thank God he gave it to me to proof read before sending it off--can you imagine!
I've got it! There is a top-secret auto-translator program inserting itself between the parents and the doctors. So the doctor says something about the safety of the vaccines and it comes out: "These vaccines are totally safe and anyone who has any doubts whatsoever is a jerk and will be fired from my practice." and the parent, of course, is a bit offended by this and fires back something about wanting to delay until their kids immune system is a bit more developed, but it comes out like this: "You jerk, you don't care about the safety of children at all and I think the whole thing is a conspiracy."

And it goes downhill from there. Actually, if we could just talk directly, I'm sure the peds and the parents would agree on a lot of stuff. It is all the fault of a evil conspiratorial translation program. Maybe I should write a novel?
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#272 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 05:05 PM
 
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Let us look at measles. In the U.S., in the 1950s there were literally millions of cases of measles every year. The death rate was something like 450 per year. So most doctors could probably practice for years without seeing a child die of measles. And when they did see a child die of measles there was probably some reason that may have made sense. Certainly doctors and mothers did not panic when a child came down with measles (my mother went through measles 5 times, with 5 children, no major fear). So when a vaccine was brought in for measles I suspect that doctors had the same attitude as for the CP vaccine...well, maybe. And as it happened the first measles vaccine was lousy and they took it off the market. So it was a few more years before vaxing for measles became standard practice. The fear of the disease was developed, in the U.S., after the vaccine became available. Both in doctors and in parents. And, of course, now the fear is quite justified, because the shifting of the ages for catching measles has made it a very, very dangerous disease, and a measles epidemic would kill a lot of people.
I don't understand this part: "And when they did see a child die of measles there was probably some reason that may have made sense. "

From eMedicine: Measles

...Measles causes an immunosuppression marked by decreases in delayed-type hypersensitivity, interleukin-12 production, and antigen-specific lymphoproliferative responses that persist for weeks to months after the acute infection. Immunosuppression may predispose individuals to severe bacterial infection, particularly bronchopneumonia, a major cause of measles-related mortality among younger children....

...

From Archives of Pediatric Medicine (Vol. 129 No. 3, March 1975): Measles mortality. Analysis of the primary cause of death

Four hundred fifty-four death certificates showing measles as the cause of death were analyzed. These represented 35.4% of the recorded deaths due to measles from 1964 through 1971. Respiratory or neurologic complications of measles or both were noted as the primary cause of death on nearly 90% of the certificates reviewed. In younger children, death was most frequently attributed to respiratory problems, while encephalitis and other neurologic sequelae of measles accounted for a larger percentage of deaths in the 10- to 14-year-olds. Nearly 17% of the persons who died had some underlying disease at the time of death, the percentage increasing with age. The majority of this group were physically or mentally retarded, or both.

So this means that more than 83% of the kids who died did NOT have an underlying disease.

...

From MayoClinic.Com: Measles

...Complications...
- Encephalitis. About one in 1,000 people with measles develops encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain caused by a viral infection, which may cause vomiting, convulsions and, rarely, coma. Encephalitis can closely follow measles, or it can occur years later during adolescence as a result of a slow virus infection. The late form, called Dawson's encephalitis, is rare.
- Pneumonia. As many as one out of 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, which can be life-threatening....


...

From the CDC: SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis)

...A risk factor for development of this fatal degenerative disease of the central nervous system is measles infection at an early age ( <2 years)....The study by Bellini et al. indicated that the risk of SSPE ranges from 6.5-11 cases of SSPE /100,000 measles cases that occurred during the measles epidemic in 1989-1991. This risk is approximately 10-fold higher than the risk estimated in the US in 1982 (8.5 cases of SSPE /1,000,000 measles cases) that is often cited in literature.

All of the genetic analyses of viral material derived from brain tissue of SSPE patients have revealed sequences of wild-type measles virus, never vaccine virus....
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#273 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 08:07 PM
 
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I read the posts from the ob/gyn who'd seen people die of mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. Yes, all were vaccinated...but the chickenpox case was an adult, and we all know chickenpox is way worse for adults than kids. As for the two infants under a year old who died of mumps and rubella, even if the vax were 100% effective and safe it couldn't have helped them being that it's not recommended to be given to children until they are 12-18 months old. It seems like factors such as that are things that are rarely taken into consideration by pro-vaxers. And the reason we don't give them the MMR before 12-18 months is because of the risks, because their systems are not necessarily strong enough to handle catching mumps or rubella from the vax which can indeed happen being that its live, weakened virus in the vax. The risk of most illnesses we vax for is highest for those children who cannot yet be vaxed against it because of the risks. That's one thing people just don't realize about vaxes, it seems, doctors included.

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#274 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 09:22 PM
 
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From the CDC: SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis)

...A risk factor for development of this fatal degenerative disease of the central nervous system is measles infection at an early age ( <2 years)....The study by Bellini et al. indicated that the risk of SSPE ranges from 6.5-11 cases of SSPE /100,000 measles cases that occurred during the measles epidemic in 1989-1991. This risk is approximately 10-fold higher than the risk estimated in the US in 1982 (8.5 cases of SSPE /1,000,000 measles cases) that is often cited in literature.

All of the genetic analyses of viral material derived from brain tissue of SSPE patients have revealed sequences of wild-type measles virus, never vaccine virus....
This is why I was talking about the shift in demographics. Measles used to be rare in babies, because their moms could pass them immunity. With vaxing, moms cannot pass immunity, so if there is an epidemic babies will catch it and all sorts of terrible stuff will result. Ditto for measles in adults, which was also rare in the pre-vax days. Neither of my parents were afraid of coming down with measles when their children had it.

Finally, I wonder about the statistics for how many cases turned serious. I think literally millions of kids had measles with no problems at all. What got into the statistics were the cases where things went wrong. If ordinary parents were seeing one in 20 children getting seriously ill from measles they wouldn't have gone out of their way to make sure that kids got it as kids. Everyone I've talked to about this in my generation can remember their parents trying to get them to catch measles.

Thanks to the vaccine program measles has become a terrifying and dangerous disease. I don't think it was for a while there.
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#275 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 10:54 PM
 
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Finally, I wonder about the statistics for how many cases turned serious. I think literally millions of kids had measles with no problems at all. What got into the statistics were the cases where things went wrong. If ordinary parents were seeing one in 20 children getting seriously ill from measles they wouldn't have gone out of their way to make sure that kids got it as kids. Everyone I've talked to about this in my generation can remember their parents trying to get them to catch measles.
It's hard to find good studies on the rate of measles complications in unvaccinated children. Many studies on this topic look at populations that have high rates of malnutrition, low access to adequate medical care, lower levels of hygeine, high rates of other illnesses, etc. So I don't it is useful to look at those studies to estimate the complication rate of unvaxed kids in the US.

Here's one study, however, that might be useful. It's centered around a 1999-2000 measles outbreak in an area of the Netherlands with a very low vax rate (7%). There's a whole lot of qualifiers to be put in, but here's some of the findings and a link to read some of those qualifiers:

From the CDC: Measles Outbreak in a Community with Very Low Vaccine Coverage, the Netherlands

...None of 25 vaccinated pupils had clinical symptoms. Among pupils with clinical symptoms, the self-reported complication rate was 25%. ...Measles is sometimes thought of as a mild disease. However, we observed a self-reported complication rate of 25% for all patients, 68% of whom consulted a GP....The median number of days the rash lasted was 5 (10th-90th percentile, 3-9), the median number of days with fever was 6 (10th-90th percentile, 3-9)....In this descriptive study of a measles outbreak with an attack rate of 90% among susceptible persons, we have shown that measles disease is severe, even in an industrialized country....


Some of the reported complications out of 162 total cases were:
- Hospitalization for delirium: 1 case
- Otitis media [middle ear infection]: 18 cases
- Pneumonia: 10 cases
- Earache: 5 cases
- Stomachache: 3 cases
- Cystitis (bladder infection): 1 case
- Laryngitis: 1 case
- Severe coughing: 1 case

A stomache can be severe or not much of anything. Same with an earache or laryngitis. So again, not perfect data and I would have not thrown around the word "severe" as much as the CDC did. But a 25% complication rate is significant, even if there are reasons for it to be slightly inflated. And a kid with a fever for 6 days in a row would be quite a hardship on many working families, not to mention being awfully unpleasant for the kid.

Anyway, as I said, not perfect, but interesting. Makes me wish there were better studies on this.
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#276 of 292 Old 05-24-2007, 11:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Crisstiana View Post
Makes me wish there were better studies on this.
You can say that again. Honestly, varicella was rough enough on one of my ds's (he has excema) that I'm not in a hurry to deal with more skin diseases- his dermatological immune system is so messed up, he might as well be permeable gas. But then, he had the hard time with scarlet fever, too. What do you do?

It would be nice if there could be open, honest dialogue with doctors & researchers. Sigh. The profit motive- nobody willingly gives up power, and the nearly-mandatory current system (my autoimmune deficient kid is just the one who shouldn't be vaccinated, but fat chance most Dr's will give a medical exemption) is too corrupt to trifle with.
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#277 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 02:20 AM
 
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Wow. Of all the rotten things I've heard, your doc doesn't even give at least a spoken okay for no vax in a kid with autoimmune disorder? Score one point for Houston. Now we're only -36,890,768,234 down. :
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#278 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 04:47 AM
 
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As for the two infants under a year old who died of mumps and rubella, even if the vax were 100% effective and safe it couldn't have helped them being that it's not recommended to be given to children until they are 12-18 months old. It seems like factors such as that are things that are rarely taken into consideration by pro-vaxers. And the reason we don't give them the MMR before 12-18 months is because of the risks, because their systems are not necessarily strong enough to handle catching mumps or rubella from the vax which can indeed happen being that its live, weakened virus in the vax.
Aaaannnnnd we're back to herd immunity, in which the fact that diseases are not going around a community helps to protect the most vulnerable. I know some people here do not believe in herd immunity but I would just like to say that this IS a consideration among people who vaccinate. We can even use the idea of a smaller herd: if I have three kids, who are 6 months, three years, and seven years, then I have two kids who are in contact with other kids, one of whom a lot (even if we homeschool, we still let her play with other children). If there is measles going around, then I keep my 6 mo. old in. But I don't want my other kids bringing the infection home, either. So I vaccinate them. No, this is not perfect, because theoretically, they could still manage to carry an infection and transmit it, but that's a lot less likely than if they weren't vaccinated. Ideally, the whole neighbourhood would be vaccinated (NOT MANDATORY- just ideally for us, not, this would be an ideal society, please don't misunderstand me on that) so we wouldn't have measles even getting in there.

Which is actually the case in the vast majority of neighbourhoods across the rich world.

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#279 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 10:34 AM
 
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Ideally, the whole neighbourhood would be vaccinated (NOT MANDATORY- just ideally for us, not, this would be an ideal society, please don't misunderstand me on that) so we wouldn't have measles even getting in there.
And ideally, for non-vaxers, the whole neighborhood would not be vax'd and my dcn would get most VADs as children, not be vulnerable as adults, and pass their immunity to their children .

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#280 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 12:00 PM
 
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And ideally for non-vaxers the whole neighborhood would not be vax'd and my dcn would get most VADs as children, not be vulnerable as adults, and pass their immunity to their children .
I don't believe these childhood "diseases" were created as negatives. I see them as a gift to the immune system to mature our health. I see them as stepping stones to health. These "diseases" get such a bad rap, and we constantly perceive them as bad. We do not truly know they are negative overall to health (of course severely immune-compromised are exceptions), and I do not believe the positives are explored as they should be. Certainly, getting these as adults does prove to be more dangerous.

We get sequestered in a paradigm which severely limits potential for understanding. Someone brought up earlier the question of health. Are children and the adults who experienced vaccines healthier as a result? The only way to truly know this is to study vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated on a large scale, longitudinally.

As stated earlier in this thread, we cannot automatically assume that a child not getting the mumps, for example, makes that child healthier. Besides it certainly happens that doctors may refuse to make certain diagnosis when it is shown that particular vaccinations have been received. Like the little girl I know who had little red dots on her scalp a few days after the chicken pox vaccine and the doctor called it a scalp condition.

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#281 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 02:23 PM
 
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I don't believe these childhood "diseases" were created as negatives. I see them as a gift to the immune system to mature our health. I see them as stepping stones to health. These "diseases" get such a bad rap, and we constantly perceive them as bad. We do not truly know they are negative overall to health (of course severely immune-compromised are exceptions), and I do not believe the positives are explored as they should be. Certainly, getting these as adults does prove to be more dangerous.
I just don't see most VPDs as gifts to the immune systems. The bad rap many of these disease have is fully earned. Many can cause death or permanent disability, even among those with a functional immune system.

Here's a run-down on some of the VPDs:

Polio
1952: nearly 58,000 known cases of polio in the US. Over one-third developed paralytic polio. Of those with paralytic polio, one third died.

Measles

The CDC estimates that 2 out of every 1,000 cases in developed countries will die.
Another source found that 1 in every 1,000 cases will develop acute encephalitis, resulting in either death or the strong possibility of permanent brain damage in survivors.
Currently in the US, 0.1-0.3% of the reported cases result in death.
Worldwide, measles kills approximately 880,000 people a year.

Mumps

Symptomatic meningitis occurs in approximately 15% of cases, although it usually resolves with problem
The mortality rate in the US is about 1.4%
In postpubertal males, 50% may have orchitis and of those 50% will experience permanent testicular atrophy.
Pancreatitis (a very unpleasant and painful disease) occurs in 5% of cases in the US.
Deafness occurs in 1 per 20,000 cases in the US. Twenty percent of these cases are bilateral.
In the first trimester, mumps is associated with an increased rate of spontaneous abortion.
There is continuing debate about whether intrauterine mumps and a specific heart defect.

Rubella

Congenital rubella can be devastating: kids can be born blind or deaf. They may also have congenital heart disease, microcephaly, meningoencephalitis, an enlarged spleen, developmental delays, and other problems.
In adults, rubella can cause recurrent episodes of inflammation or the fingers, wrists, and knees that can continue for more than a year. It is also possible to have chronic fatigue and muscle aches that last for years, although this is very rare.

Smallpox (this was once a VPD)
Historically, the overall fatality rate was 30%, with rates varying by type of smallpox..
Many survivors had permanent scars from the pox.

Haemophilus influenza type b
Responsible for more than 95% of invasive H. flu disease in kids and half of such cases in adults. Such invasive disease includes things like meningitis, cellulites, epiglottitis, septic arthritis, pneumonia, and empyema (bunch o' pus).
Overall mortality from Hib meningitis is about 5%, but many survivors will have continuing neurological problems. These can include deafness (6% of those with Hib meningitis), developmental delay, poor vision, mental retardation, seizures, ataxia, and hydrocephalus.
Five to 10% of people with epiglottitis from Hib die due to acute respiratory tract obstruction.
Among newborns who catch invasive Hib, 55% will die.

Rotavirus
In the US, rotavirus causes approximately 80,000 hospitalizations for diarrheal illness each year.
Approximately 100 people a year are killed from rotavirus in the US.

Tetanus
Rare, but a terrible disease.
Tonic contractions of the muscles can cause severe pain, fracture bones, rupture tendons, and result in respiratory failure.
Mortality from tetanus in the US is 30% overall and 52% in patients over 60 years of age.

Diphtheria
Mortality rate is approximately 20% if treatment is not started until day 4 of symptoms
If treatment is started on day 1 of symptoms, mortality is 1%

N. meningitidis meningitis
In developed countries, the mortality rate is 3% for meningitis and up to 50% for fulminant meningococcemia.
Without antibiotics, meningococcal meningitis is 100% fatal.
Some possible complications include DIC, pericarditis, amputation, hemorrhage of the adrenal glands, deafness, and peripheral neuropathy.

Hep A
Meh, not such a big deal in most people.

Varicella
Meh, also not usually a big deal in children over the age of 1.
But in pregnant women it can lead to limb defects, growth retardation, blindness, and neurological problems in the fetus.
In the general US population a little of 6 cases per 100,000 result in death.
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#282 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 02:47 PM
 
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Um, I "suffered" from measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox as a child and all were very mild. Now I have life long immunity and a stronger immune system.
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#283 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 02:51 PM
 
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Wish we had actual statistics (accurate statistics) to compare what you have posted to the statistics of children compromised or killed by vaccines.

Also, do your stats include adults? I note that under Measles you post about deaths annually ~ do these figures only count children or does this include adults as well? Reason I ask is because I fully believe most of these diseases are far more harmful to adults ~ and it would not surprise me to hear of more adults dying because they did not gain life long immunity as children.

It is so easy to look at the list you have posted ~ and without further research say "wow, one should vax"...but then not having a list to compare with that is accurate with regard to how vaccines compromise our children seems hard to make the call knowing that info out there is not accurate, admitted or connected!

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#284 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 02:57 PM
 
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Maybe we should also specify what counts as a childhood disease. I don't think of polio, smallpox or meningitis as being childhood diseases, but I do think of mumps, measles, rubella and chicken pox that way. How do we define the distinction? It does seem like most of the alarming stuff in the above post, for those diseases anyway, relates to not getting them as children. Congenital rubella, for instance, I think of as being something that results from pregnant women (hopefully adults!) contracting rubella, presumably because they lack natural immunity. As was pointed out, we are in the trap of not having the natural immunity pass through breastmilk to very young children, and thus crossing fingers for the vulnerable period, and then hoping to find the diseases during the safest window.
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#285 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 03:03 PM
 
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It is so easy to look at the list you have posted ~ and without further research say "wow, one should vax"...but then not having a list to compare with that is accurate with regard to how vaccines compromise our children seems hard to make the call knowing that info out there is not accurate, admitted or connected!
I didn't post that stuff to try to make anyone say, "wow, one should vax". It was to show that these can be nasty diseases and to provide reasons why I don't see most of these diseases as gifts.

For anyone to make the hard, personal cost-benefit analysis for her own kids would require a lot more research and info than what I provided.

ETA: And the other half of such a cost-benefit analysis is, of course, possible harm from vaxes. I skipped that because that wasn't the point of the post. But a fully informed vax decision can't be made without considering this, even though it is hard to do because of the faulty CDC info.
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#286 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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Wish we had actual statistics (accurate statistics) to compare what you have posted to the statistics of children compromised or killed by vaccines.

Also, do your stats include adults? I note that under Measles you post about deaths annually ~ do these figures only count children or does this include adults as well? Reason I ask is because I fully believe most of these diseases are far more harmful to adults ~ and it would not surprise me to hear of more adults dying because they did not gain life long immunity as children.

It is so easy to look at the list you have posted ~ and without further research say "wow, one should vax"...but then not having a list to compare with that is accurate with regard to how vaccines compromise our children seems hard to make the call knowing that info out there is not accurate, admitted or connected!

Exactly my issue. I want to know why are we vaccinating newborn babies, infants and small children against a particular illness when the biggest risk with that illness occurs during adulthood anyway? And vaccination does not equal 100% immunity anyway. Whenever there's an outbreak a significant portion of the people getting sick (pertussis for example) were vaccinated- I wonder how many of those statistics include people that received the vaccination but contracted the illness anyway. The vaccines only "protect" against a small amount of strains after all. And what about those that contracted the illness from the vaccine itself, like that toddler that contracted smallpox when his dad got vaccinated for it? Are those statistics included?

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#287 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Crisstiana View Post
I didn't post that stuff to try to make anyone say, "wow, one should vax". It was to show that these can be nasty diseases and to provide reasons why I don't see most of these diseases as gifts.

For anyone to make the hard, personal cost-benefit analysis for her own kids would require a lot more research and info than what I provided.

ETA: And the other half of such a cost-benefit analysis is, of course, possible harm from vaxes. I skipped that because that wasn't the point of the post. But a fully informed vax decision can't be made without considering this, even though it is hard to do because of the faulty CDC info.
Thanks for the info Crisstiana. I know you weren't posting it for that purpose but what I was trying to say is that if one looks at only the illness/disease issues ~ which I think so many times is what peds do ~ then it is so easy to say "vax". Where in reality there are two sides of the issue (as you know).

Sorry, was not trying to imply that you were saying each person should vax...but just trying to say that the CDC, FDA, medical groups, etc. put this information out there without the weight of the vaccination reactions/deaths, etc. I am one to believe that these diseases are less harmful when we are all children and it is better for our herd if we allow our children to get them (Mumps, Rubella, Measles, CP, etc.) vs. creating a top heavy society that does not have immunity and runs the constant risk of true harm (rather than gaining immunity as a child when the harm is not as risky -- granted there is always risk).

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Maybe we should also specify what counts as a childhood disease. I don't think of polio, smallpox or meningitis as being childhood diseases, but I do think of mumps, measles, rubella and chicken pox that way. How do we define the distinction? It does seem like most of the alarming stuff in the above post, for those diseases anyway, relates to not getting them as children
That's why I specified childhood diseases. Also, the numbers that are often provided to spark fear are influenced to such a point that it is hard to say what is even accurate or not. A lot of people question the cause of polio, and some researchers state that close to 99% are asymptomatic with it, and then of course as I've I stated in other posts I personally know 4 people who had what could be considered paralytic polio and none of them was diagnosed as such. Then you can throw in the fact that influenza type symptoms were once labeled as polio and the definition of polio itself was altered after the vaccines and polio programs were introduced and one can see how confusing this all gets. That's just the polio part which I don't even consider a normal childhood disease.

Any statistics or research can be seen any number of ways and there are ALWAYS holes. My point is where is the proof that vaccines create health? How do we know for sure that childhood diseases such as chicken pox, measles and mumps are bad and that it is better to try and eliminate them? I think it is easy to look at research or numbers in an article and forget to look around and utilize common sense. We can't just throw out numbers and think we've made sense of something.

The chicken pox vaccine is such a glaring example of creating a belief of mass consciousness. We are getting to see how this all works first hand. At first, many people scoff or laugh at the idea of a chicken pox vaccine. The idea is repeated and percolates, terrible numbers get thrown around even though most people would be hard pressed to remember anyone who had a very serious reaction to chicken pox, and eventually people accept the idea that the vaccine is a life saver and eradicator of an evil virus as a fact. One hundred years from now people will be talking about the dreaded chicken pox the way people now talk about the dreaded measles.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
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#289 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 06:16 PM
 
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Sorry to jump in a thread like this, I read the first 7 or so pages and couldn't help but notice that a lot of people think doctors are pro-vax because of the profit to be made, and that the pharmaceutical companies are pushing it for the same exact reason.

Two questions that I have:

1. Why would it be better for the pharma to provide a vaccine when they could make lots more money curing the disease? There's a lot more profit to be gained from treatment of VPDs than from vaccinating.

2. Doctors in many countries outside of the USA don't get paid for administering vaccines. Even if the pharma for whatever reason thought they'd be making better profit out of vaccines than treatment for VPDs, the money spent on vaccines comes out of the government's pocket and they sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying for something that is either a) useless or b) potentially harmful (ie, more treatment needed, higher cost).
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#290 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by anubis View Post
Sorry to jump in a thread like this, I read the first 7 or so pages and couldn't help but notice that a lot of people think doctors are pro-vax because of the profit to be made, and that the pharmaceutical companies are pushing it for the same exact reason.

Two questions that I have:

1. Why would it be better for the pharma to provide a vaccine when they could make lots more money curing the disease? There's a lot more profit to be gained from treatment of VPDs than from vaccinating.

2. Doctors in many countries outside of the USA don't get paid for administering vaccines. Even if the pharma for whatever reason thought they'd be making better profit out of vaccines than treatment for VPDs, the money spent on vaccines comes out of the government's pocket and they sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying for something that is either a) useless or b) potentially harmful (ie, more treatment needed, higher cost).
1. Not everyone gets the VPDs but if you make it a law that everyone has to receive the vaccinations ~ then everyone gets the vaccinations (and they get more and more because 1 vaccine does not constitute life long immunity). In addition, those who get said VPDs do not usually require medical attention ~ only the more serious cases require seeing a doctor. I had chicken pox as a child ~ never saw a doctor for it. Same would/could go for measles, mumps and other childhood diseases. Those who suffer serious complications are quite a small percentage when you are looking at a patient base.

2. I can only attest to why I think they are administered in the states because that is where I was born, raised and currently live. As for the reasoning for other countries...there are lots in this thread that have been given. Additionally, another thread was started regarding vaccines in other countries...I will see if I can find it and give it a bump. But there is lots of money involved.

Furthermore...I think one of the major issues is that the companies that produce vaccines skew research and numbers so as to go about selling their product. That includes skewing the information to the medical community. If you have not spent much time here on this forum...I highly recommend you reading several of the threads about vaccines. It is a complex subject.

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#291 of 292 Old 05-25-2007, 11:51 PM
 
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Um, I "suffered" from measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox as a child and all were very mild. Now I have life long immunity and a stronger immune system.

Same here!
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#292 of 292 Old 05-26-2007, 03:07 AM
 
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|Two questions that I have:

1. Why would it be better for the pharma to provide a vaccine when they could make lots more money curing the disease? There's a lot more profit to be gained from treatment of VPDs than from vaccinating.

2. Doctors in many countries outside of the USA don't get paid for administering vaccines. Even if the pharma for whatever reason thought they'd be making better profit out of vaccines than treatment for VPDs, the money spent on vaccines comes out of the government's pocket and they sure as hell wouldn't be happy paying for something that is either a) useless or b) potentially harmful (ie, more treatment needed, higher cost).|

Anuba... you are more than welcome here. However these two points have been discussed in this thread. Happy reading!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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