What led you to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinate? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
anewmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The more I digest this all, the more I realize that the information can be broken down into different categories. While all categories may be reasons for someone to not vaccinate or be selective, someone might be more concerned with some than others. I am wondering what led you to your decision.

Please add to the list but this is the list I came up with.

1. the ingredients horrify me and that's enough

2. the lack of clear pure (proof) information on their effectiveness

3. the young age in which they are given

4. concerns about vax threat to present health as well as future health

5. the potential lack of real threat (diseases not as rampant as public is led to believe even if this is due to vaccines).

6. vaccines are effective but they are just so frightening so being selective

7. vaccines are effective but they are just so frightening so NOT vaccinating

8. choosing to be selective because despite the above, i believe they are effective and I am afraid of diseases

9. recommended age is too young so hoping/praying my child makes it to an older age to vaccinate

10. Disease are very real, vaccines are effective but risky, but want to wait until the risk diminishes by giving at an older age. I am ok with the ingredients.

11. Disease are very real, vaccines are effective but risky, but want to wait until the risk diminishes by giving at an older age. I am NOT ok with the ingredients but I don't feel there is a choice.


I sort of wanted to make this into a poll but it's so broad as to be almost useless. I am curious as to know what is more concerning and how this plays into what they finally decide.
anewmama is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 10:40 PM
 
quarteralien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For me, reasons 1-5 are a pretty good summary. For my DH, once I showed him my reasons, he came up with one that doesn't appear on your list. That is the lack of clear evidence that vaccines are safe. He was adamantly opposed to my new desire to forego vaxes until I made him research and he discovered just how little effort goes into testing vaxes before they become commonly used. And I agree with you, the reasons people can have are so many and varied that a poll woulnd't do it justice. I'm just glad that my DH and I finally took the plunge and explored this decision for ourselves instead of simply trusting doctors as we'd done before.
quarteralien is offline  
#3 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 10:49 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
My thinking is different for different diseases and vaccines.
I don't really have broad reasons that apply to them all, although aluminum adjuvants worry me.
For some (HepA/B) it's really as simple as "shots hurt/not going to subject my kid to that pain with a vaccine that holds very little chance of being of benefit to him".
mamakay is offline  
#4 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 10:53 PM
 
ZanZansMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Where the watermelons grow!
Posts: 1,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I started thinking differently when I heard Barbara Loe Fisher speak at a convention. About a yr later some very good family friends lost their 3 mo. old son 2 dyas after his shots I didn't have kids yet but I realized at that moment I would never vaccinate them.

amd I agree with mamakay.

Lola , loving my DH, Mama to & we &
ZanZansMommy is offline  
#5 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 10:54 PM
 
CaraNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: in the Deathly Hallows
Posts: 1,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
graphs, they told the whole story, PM me if you want a copy!
CaraNicole is offline  
#6 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:05 PM
 
lokidoki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Cackalacky
Posts: 1,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some of the reasons you mentioned ~ one other is I do think there is some truth to the theory that it is 'healthy' to get some of these diseases (CP, Measles, Mumps, Rubella) as children when they are mild and relatively harmless ~ gaining life long immunity ~ and possibly making the immune system stronger and setting my child up for a healthier future.

I too agree with Mamakay. It depends on the disease/vaccine ~ but for the most part there are ingredients in all of them that have me worried.

Wife to DH (06/09/01), Mother to DS coolshine.gif (04/10/06) saynovax.gif and rescuer of dachshunds ~ and joy.gifthat our rainbow1284.gif arrived (06/10/11) safe and sound. Love cd.gif our little one ~ and lactivist.gif

lokidoki is offline  
#7 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:08 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,564
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
My observation is that there are several factors that wake people up and start them researching:

Gut feeling that vaxing is dangerous for their baby/babies/children.

Family member who has a reaction to a vaccine, or knowing another family where someone reacted to a vaccine.

Discovering that the official vaccine information is deceptive and incomplete. Once you realize that somebody is trying to deceive you...

Your baby has a reaction and the doctor/nurse tells you it either wasn't connected or is "normal" so don't worry.

The hardest part of the journey is taking the step to research vaccines. Once that step has been taken, then almost any of the concerns raised by the OP could be the decisive piece.
Deborah is online now  
#8 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:32 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Risk/benefit analysis.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
#9 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:38 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
What led you to not vaccinate or selectively vaccinate?

common sense and ye olde
Quote:
Risk/benefit analysis.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#10 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:42 PM
 
Luckyinlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My parents did not vaccinate us kids (thank GOD!)! :
Luckyinlife is offline  
#11 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:46 PM
 
MsElle07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What started it for me was my mother's decision to not continue shots for us (I got most, but my youngest sib had almost none.) So it was an idea I was raised with. When I got married and pg, I started researching extensively because I knew I would have to convince my DH. I would say numbers 1-5 on your list, coupled with the belief that an intact immune system is much more desirable. Also, the large bodies of evidence that are now showing that we're replacing childhood VPDs with chronic disease like juvenile diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis, serious allergies, and neurological conditions like ADHD and autism. I'd much rather take my chances with the chicken pox, thanks!
MsElle07 is offline  
#12 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:52 PM
 
MommytoHHH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lovely Georgia
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had no idea that vaccines weren't great until I was told that I should get the chicken pox vaccine before TTC. I never had CP, and blood tests showed no immunity, so I got the shot (both doses in the correct time frame) and assumed I was immune. I got pregnant and my OB's office did a blood titre that showed that I was still not immune. My OB told me that vaccines aren't 100% effective and that even if they do work, they may wear off over time. Having a research background, I wanted to know what the effectiveness was if not 100% and started researching. Researching led me to all the risks. And all the risks of vaccines definitely, to me, seem to outweigh the benefits of giving a little bitty baby a ton of shots.

Mama to two wonderful DDs (10/06 and 09/08) and expecting a DS 1/1/11!
MommytoHHH is offline  
#13 of 58 Old 07-05-2007, 11:56 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyinlife View Post
My parents did not vaccinate us kids (thank GOD!)! :
send me a personal message, Luckyinlife.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#14 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 12:20 AM
 
xmasbaby7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 1,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One to add:

I realized that with my access to a major Children's Hospital, wonderful alternative health practitioners, breast feeding and an organic, healthy diet, I figured my dd would have access to many things to help her should she come into contact with disease, including a strong, intact immune system.

There are few, effective resources to help with serious vaccine reactions and it is an uphill battle all the way to find treatment for your child when no one acknowledges what harmed them in the first place.

::: Just another WAHM using this forum to put off picking up toys and cleaning my house.
xmasbaby7 is offline  
#15 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 12:21 AM
 
kht2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I believe my DD had an adverse reaction to the hep b vax at birth. That is why I have delayed/not vaxed her further.
kht2006 is offline  
#16 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 12:27 AM
 
Luckyinlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
send me a personal message, Luckyinlife.
I tried, something is up with the board or something...says you don't accept them. I cleared mine up though if you want to try again.
Luckyinlife is offline  
#17 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 12:36 AM
 
blissful_maia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 3,527
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Risk/benefit analysis.

-Angela
:

Peaceful mama to three blissfully-birthed and incredible small people: dd10, dd7 and ds5. Always awed and so thankful to be a midwife.
blissful_maia is online now  
#18 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 12:37 AM
 
guestmama9944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mine was a snowball effect starting with the CP vax and MMR - I recieved the MMR before I started nursing school and it made me sick for a month (strep 2x, bronchitis in summer and an ear infection). When my doc told me my girls would be getting the CP and MMR at 15 month WC, I got to researching (Why in the world do we need a CP vax??).

It was the ingredients list to the vaccines that really got me going.
guestmama9944 is offline  
#19 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 09:25 AM
 
arlecchina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
research, now. but even before that my first only got one round of vaxes and holding my infant son down while he screamed in order to "protect" him from a disease no one I ever heard of had gotten and no way he was going to come in contact with seemed counterproductive. not scientific, no, but he didnt get more vaxes (till school started cause I was ignorant then, but even so he got 6 shots altogether compared to what, 32 on the schedule?)
arlecchina is offline  
#20 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 11:33 AM
 
Unoppressed MAMA Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Exactly Where I'm At
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anewmama View Post
I sort of wanted to make this into a poll but it's so broad as to be almost useless. I am curious as to know what is more concerning and how this plays into what they finally decide.
don't know if this is helpful, but i come at the whole thing from an entirely different angle.

i didn't choose NOT to vaccinate. it's how my kids came. the default way to live a human life is does not include vaccines. i'm not opting to go OUT OF MY WAY to get a vaccine (for me, kids, dog, etc) any more than i'm going out of my way to get plastic surgery or have a pool installed in my backyard.

to me, as an armchair philosopher, the question more is
'what leads people TO vaccinate?' this question really makes me , because i tend to live my life ever-more based on what i DO want, and not on what i DON'T want....

vaccines, to me, represent fear and mistrust of the self and the amazing power of the immune system, as well as a deep-seated desire for immortality.

if i shared those fears/desires, i might be signing up for vaxes. not because they 'work', but because those attitudes would predispose me to buy whatever 'they' are selling.

i don't have a pool either. but nobody is running around asking me 'what made you decide NOT to install a pool?'
Unoppressed MAMA Q is offline  
#21 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 11:58 AM
 
nataliachick7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinios
Posts: 1,836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoppressed MAMA Q View Post
don't know if this is helpful, but i come at the whole thing from an entirely different angle.

i didn't choose NOT to vaccinate. it's how my kids came. the default way to live a human life is does not include vaccines. i'm not opting to go OUT OF MY WAY to get a vaccine (for me, kids, dog, etc) any more than i'm going out of my way to get plastic surgery or have a pool installed in my backyard.

to me, as an armchair philosopher, the question more is
'what leads people TO vaccinate?' this question really makes me , because i tend to live my life ever-more based on what i DO want, and not on what i DON'T want....

vaccines, to me, represent fear and mistrust of the self and the amazing power of the immune system, as well as a deep-seated desire for immortality.

if i shared those fears/desires, i might be signing up for vaxes. not because they 'work', but because those attitudes would predispose me to buy whatever 'they' are selling.

i don't have a pool either. but nobody is running around asking me 'what made you decide NOT to install a pool?'


DS 5-11-06
nataliachick7 is offline  
#22 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
anewmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unoppressed MAMA Q View Post
vaccines, to me, represent fear and mistrust of the self and the amazing power of the immune system, as well as a deep-seated desire for immortality.

if i shared those fears/desires, i might be signing up for vaxes. not because they 'work', but because those attitudes would predispose me to buy whatever 'they' are selling.
It does help but aside from the aspect of fear and mistrust and immune system, which I am not disagreeing with.... someone might say that it would be a child's right to have a desire for immortality. In otherwords, by not vaccinating, you are making a decision to potentially shorten the life of another being which isn't right if actions you might take could lengthen that life. Not that I am saying this is the case but it sort of goes in line with the perspective of people that those who do not vaccinate are not good parents.

Is it possible to vaccinate without being afraid of the diseases, I wonder?
anewmama is offline  
#23 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 01:54 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Is it possible to vaccinate without being afraid of the diseases, I wonder?
For some of the diseases, it's not even "sold" under the premise that the disease is dangerous to your own kid. No one really thinks their toddler is going to die from rubella. So you get the scenarios about "for the good of the community" and "protecting the immunocompromised".

Which is sometimes a valid argument, but it becomes an ethical issue instead of a "Don't let your baby die!" one.
mamakay is offline  
#24 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 02:56 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,564
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Personally, I think all arguments for doing something to one group of people for the benefit of a different group of people, are fundamentally unethical.
Deborah is online now  
#25 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 03:06 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Personally, I think all arguments for doing something to one group of people for the benefit of a different group of people, are fundamentally unethical.
It's definitely tricky when one group having something done to them for the good of someone else is unable to give consent.

And then there are weirdo situations like what's happened with invasive Hi disease...where vaxing babies has either

1) totally failed in the long run as a "invasive Hi disease" preventive for babies/children.

or...

2) vaxing babies is increasing invasive Hi disease in the elderly.

And we don't even know which one it is, coz the CDC never bothered to collect any data before shooting up every infant in the US, when they knew beforehand that this experiment could turn out goofy in god-knows-what kinds of ways.

:
mamakay is offline  
#26 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 03:26 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
It's definitely tricky when one group having something done to them for the good of someone else is unable to give consent.
Precisely.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#27 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
anewmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
For some of the diseases, it's not even "sold" under the premise that the disease is dangerous to your own kid. No one really thinks their toddler is going to die from rubella.
What else beside rubella?
anewmama is offline  
#28 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
anewmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
]invasive Hi disease...where vaxing babies has either

1) totally failed in the long run as a "invasive Hi disease" preventive for babies/children.

or...

2) vaxing babies is increasing invasive Hi disease in the elderly.
what's invasive Hi disease? :
anewmama is offline  
#29 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 04:00 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anewmama View Post
what's invasive Hi disease? :
Invasive haemophilus influenzae disease. What the Hib vax is for. The problem is that the B serotype isn't the only kind.
mamakay is offline  
#30 of 58 Old 07-06-2007, 08:56 PM
 
babysx9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We changed our views on vaxes when my DD almost died due to a negative reaction to her first set.
babysx9 is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off