Aborted Fetal Cells-do people not know or not care? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-04-2007, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
JaneSmith1010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know very staunch Christians that fully vaccinate thier children. I'm sure this is more common than not. Do these individuals not know what is in the vaccinations? or are they 'compromising'? I know that diploid cells from the aborted fetus are the cheapest line to use and I think there is a push to use the cells in more of the vaccines. Anyone else heard of this? I believe that the cells are used in Ruebella and Varicella, not sure about any others. Links are appreciated.
JaneSmith1010 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-04-2007, 07:43 PM
 
Cutie Patootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh Area
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think most people don't know...but it has been my experience that once they find out, they don't care. Maybe they don't really believe it's true, so they figure if they don't search to find out, it won't be.

Tina ~ SAHcarrot.gif- head Mama to - 

  DS blowkiss.gif(07/'03), DD energy.gif(05'05), DS, unplanned UC sleepytime.gif(01/'09), DD joy.gif(06/'11) ...

SURPRISE!  dizzy.gifNew little one, due Sept. 2013

Cutie Patootie is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 07:50 PM
 
2busy2clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: land of the giant dust bunnies
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They don't know. And if you try to educate the hard care believers (in health care) they deny it. I actually had one person tell me that it was against texas law for vaccines to use fetal cells there. : so of course, in her eyes, my information was wrong.
2busy2clean is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:28 PM
 
delphiniumpansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Being as these cell lines are over 40 years old, maybe they don't care anymore. It is not like many fetuses were aborted or they continue to be or anything like that. We are talking about a few cell lines from the 1960s. I realize it is a big deal to some but it is not a big deal to all, even some christians.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vacc...tail.cfv?id=32

Quote:
Two different strains of human diploid cell cultures made from fetuses have been used extensively for vaccine production for decades. One was developed in the United States in 1961 (called WI-38) and the other in the United Kingdom in 1966 (called MRC-5).

WI-38 came from lung cells from a female fetus of 3-months gestation and MRC-5 was developed from lung cells from a 14-week-old male fetus. Both fetuses were intentionally aborted, but neither was aborted for the purpose of obtaining diploid cells. (6-8). The fetal tissues that eventually became WI-38 and the MRC-5 cell cultures were removed from fetuses that were dead. The cellular biologists who made the cell cultures did not induce the abortions.

These two cell strains have been growing under laboratory conditions for more than 35 years. The cells are merely the biological system in which the viruses are grown. These cell strains do not and cannot form a complete organism and do not constitute a potential human being. The cells reproduce themselves, so there is no need to abort additional fetuses to sustain the culture supply. Viruses are collected from the diploid cell cultures and then processed further to produce the vaccine itself.
delphiniumpansy is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:32 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowpansy View Post
Being as these cell lines are over 40 years old, maybe they don't care anymore. It is not like many fetuses were aborted or they continue to be or anything like that. We are talking about a few cell lines from the 1960s. I realize it is a big deal to some but it is not a big deal to all, even some christians.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vacc...tail.cfv?id=32
For possibly the only time ever, I will : yellowpansy.

They don't care. They don't want to think about it. They say since it was so long ago it doesn't matter...

-Angela
alegna is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:39 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
I actually agree with YP on this one too.
Most don't know, but when they find out that these abortions were performed in the 60's, it just doesn't seem like a big deal.

If there was a need for "fresh fetuses" continuously or something, I think they'd care about that.
mamakay is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:42 PM
 
lml41981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think in addition to feeling really detached from it because it happened so long ago, they rationalize that "aborted" is a medical term that can also encompass "miscarriage" and that there is no way to know if the fetuses were aborted in the sense we think of the term or if they were miscarried.
lml41981 is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:46 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lml41981 View Post
I think in addition to feeling really detached from it because it happened so long ago, they rationalize that "aborted" is a medical term that can also encompass "miscarriage" and that there is no way to know if the fetuses were aborted in the sense we think of the term or if they were miscarried.
Actually they WERE specifically aborted to make the vaccines. Along with a bunch of healthy ones too.... from moms exposed to rubella.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:50 PM
 
delphiniumpansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Actually they WERE specifically aborted to make the vaccines. Along with a bunch of healthy ones too.... from moms exposed to rubella.

-Angela
where is your source for that info?
delphiniumpansy is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:52 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowpansy View Post
where is your source for that info?
read up on it awhile back in the history of how they were made... I didn't keep a link though- sorry! I bet if you start a thread someone will be through with a link.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 08:54 PM
Spy
 
Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A few churches have supported this creating sort of mission statements with 'a little bit of bad abortion can be tolerated for greater good' idea and this put a few of other minds to peace.
But yes, most don't know, don't understand and don't especially want to go there.
Spy is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:31 PM
 
xmysticprincessx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
read up on it awhile back in the history of how they were made... I didn't keep a link though- sorry! I bet if you start a thread someone will be through with a link.

-Angela
i remember reading that too. here's the site:
http://cogforlife.org/
click on "a moral and historical perspective." its in there.

and i agree, most dont know there are aborted fetal cells in there. if dd's old pediatrician didnt believe me that there were aborted fetal cells in varicella and other vaccines, i dont see how non-medical people would believe it (or even think to question if they were in there to begin with).
xmysticprincessx is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:47 PM
 
runes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,933
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i think it's that most people don't know, and they don't WANT to know. but they SHOULD, if they're going to get up on their self righteous high horse pulpits about abortion and stem cell research.

it's utterly hypocritical.
runes is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:11 PM
 
Cutie Patootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh Area
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowpansy View Post
Being as these cell lines are over 40 years old, maybe they don't care anymore. It is not like many fetuses were aborted or they continue to be or anything like that. We are talking about a few cell lines from the 1960s. I realize it is a big deal to some but it is not a big deal to all, even some christians.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vacc...tail.cfv?id=32
:

I always find it interesting that conviction has a time limit when it comes to this specifically.

Tina ~ SAHcarrot.gif- head Mama to - 

  DS blowkiss.gif(07/'03), DD energy.gif(05'05), DS, unplanned UC sleepytime.gif(01/'09), DD joy.gif(06/'11) ...

SURPRISE!  dizzy.gifNew little one, due Sept. 2013

Cutie Patootie is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:55 PM
 
delphiniumpansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: north of the equator
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmysticprincessx View Post
i remember reading that too. here's the site:
http://cogforlife.org/
click on "a moral and historical perspective." its in there.
from that link:

Quote:
in the case of vaccines, tissues were taken following abortions performed for unrelated reasons.
They then go on to try to refute this claim by citing all sorts of misinformation. Like the cells in Great Britain were in the 1970s when in fact they are from the 1960s. And, this is a very biased site. They are going to try really hard to make this claim. I would trust a scientific website over a religious one. Is there a less biased source?
delphiniumpansy is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:20 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
With rubella...the virus strain (RA-27) came from babies who were aborted because it was feared they would have CRS. It was the 27th fetus that ended up having rubella.

The cell culture (what virus strain RA-27 is grown in) is WI-38, though, which is a baby who was aborted because of "psychiatric reasons".
mamakay is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:22 PM
 
EENS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowpansy View Post
from that link:



They then go on to try to refute this claim by citing all sorts of misinformation. Like the cells in Great Britain were in the 1970s when in fact they are from the 1960s. And, this is a very biased site. They are going to try really hard to make this claim. I would trust a scientific website over a religious one. Is there a less biased source?
The Appeal in the Cogforlife site, is pretty well documented and footnoted from non-religious sources. I'm referring specifically to the first section that discusses "The Abortions".
EENS is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:42 PM
Spy
 
Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
With rubella...the virus strain (RA-27) came from babies who were aborted because it was feared they would have CRS. It was the 27th fetus that ended up having rubella.

The cell culture (what virus strain RA-27 is grown in) is WI-38, though, which is a baby who was aborted because of "psychiatric reasons".
And both are used in MMR, - RA-27\3 virus grown in WI-38 cell lines, which may add to the confusion since people don't realise there are products of two different abortions not one.
Spy is offline  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:49 PM
 
mamakay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in la la land, or so they say...
Posts: 8,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spy View Post
And both are used in MMR, - RA-27\3 virus grown in WI-38 cell lines, which may add to the confusion since people don't realise there are products of two different abortions not one.
And the MMRV (proquad) used a third...MCR-5 cell line to grow chickenpox.
mamakay is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:11 AM
 
SamsMuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TN
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is the main reason DH and I decided not to vax our kids. We have lots of other reasons too - this was just the biggest.

I asked my ped about it, and he denied that there were human diploid cells in the vaccinations. I told him that it's included in the list of ingredients and is as plain as day, but he seriously thought I was nuts for believing it.

Happy wife and blessed mama to three sweet girlies chicken3.gif

SamsMuffin is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:16 AM
 
jennybean0722's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you for these links!!! This is the kind of stuff I need....however I feel like s**t now b/c I vax'd my son with Hep A (don't shoot me!). But, I've already made the decision a long time ago about MMR and c-pox.

Jenny, mother of two boys; 7-25-06 and 7-27-08. Loving wife to Cole. I love birth! :
jennybean0722 is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:19 AM
 
loriforeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
THIS mama didn't know. neither did my mother...she's currently questioning my research. since i just shot her the link to the ingredients from the merck site, we'll see if she believes me.

i'm physically ill at the moment, literally. and YES, it makes a HUGE difference. as well as the presence of gelatin.
loriforeman is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 12:35 AM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhow32000 View Post
I believe that the cells are used in Ruebella and Varicella, not sure about any others. Links are appreciated.
Those, and several more.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=397249


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutie Patootie View Post
I think most people don't know...but it has been my experience that once they find out, they don't care.
:



Quote:
Originally Posted by lml41981 View Post
there is no way to know if the fetuses were aborted in the sense we think of the term or if they were miscarried.
As it's been pointed out, the fetuses were deliberately aborted - in fact, at least one mother was pressured to abort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowpansy View Post
where is your source for that info?
http://poisonevercure.150m.com/abort...ontributes.htm

Quote:
One if the most highly misunderstood notions among moral theologians and ethicists is that the abortions involved were not done with the intention of creating vaccines. In fact, in response to President Bush’s decision on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research (ESCR), the USCCB highlights this point as follows:


...


It was the intent of the abortionist and the researcher to destroy these babies specifically for vaccine manufacturing. But first, the abortions had to be pre-arranged so the researchers were available to immediately preserve the tissues.

"In order to sustain 96% of the cells, the live tissue would need to be preserved within 5 minutes of the abortion"-Dr. C. Ward Kischer

Quote:
1964 Hayflick isolates and gives name to the WI-38 cell line derived from the lungs of a baby girl 3 months gestation.

"This fetus was chosen by Dr. Sven Gard, specifically for this purpose. Both parents are known, and unfortunately, for the story, they are married to each other, still alive and well, and living in Stockholm, presumably. The abortion was done because they felt they had too many children. There were no familial diseases in the history of either parents, and no history of cancer specifically in the families."

-G. Sven, S. Plotkin, K. McCarthy, Gamma Globulin Prophylaxis; Inactivated Rubella Virus; Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines; Amer J Dis Child Vol 118 Aug 1969


Quote:
Preying on the fear that 20%-25% of pregnant women infected with Rubella pass it to their unborn children, possibly causing defects, doctors encouraged pregnant women to have their unborn children aborted during the 1964 epidemic. The first 26 aborted babies were unaffected. The live rubella virus was found in the 27th killed unborn baby.

"Explant cultures were made of the dissected organs of a particular fetus aborted because of rubella, the 27th in our series of fetuses aborted. This fetus was from a 25-year-old mother exposed to rubella 8 days after her last menstrual period. 16 days later she developed rubella. The fetus was surgically aborted 17 days after maternal illness and dissected immediately. Explants from several organs were cultured and successful cell growth was achieved from lung, skin, and kidney. It was then grown on WI-38,. The new vaccine was tested on orphans in Philadelphia"

-American Journal Diseases of Children; Virus Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines, Vol. 118 Aug 1969; Attenuation Of RA273 Rubella Virus; Studies of Immunization With Living Rubella Virus; Arch J Dis Child vol 110 Oct 1965

Quote:
"The Fetus As Transplant Donor the Scientific, Social, and Ethical Perspectives," written by Peter McCullough, who is an immunologist at the University of Western Australia. It's published by the John Wiley Company in New York.

...


And this is directly from his book. Healthy human fetuses from 7 to 21 weeks from legal abortions were used. This is in Sweden.


...

50% of the time, the baby would be born alive, but that didn't stop them. They would just simply open up the abdomen of the baby with no anesthesia, and take out the liver and kidneys.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 01:36 AM
 
Isaac'smama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Happily married with two sweet boys (8/04 and 6/07) bikenew.gifsleepytime.gifand one sweet baby girl born en caul (2/10)! babygirl.gif
Isaac'smama is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 01:45 AM
 
APMomOfKimmyN-Maya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Most people I've chatted with have no clue. I was just talking to a guy the other day who was vehemently pro-life and he was completely shocked when I told him that aborted fetal tissue is used in a few vaccines. I got two people to pause and start questioning vaccines that day just by bringing this up.
APMomOfKimmyN-Maya is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 02:06 AM
 
Genesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I care.

knit.gifMama to reading.gif  and  babygirl.gif
Genesis is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 02:14 AM
 
Kailey's mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
we're no longer having Kailey vaxed, and one of the main reasons that I have my families support now finally, is because I had my mom read where they are using fetal cells. the mmr contains it, hep A also. She thinks that it has to be a new thing: and is floored. we are christian, and my mom had never heard of it, she didn't know what was actually IN vaccines. we're not vaxing for several reasons. (The fact that they use fetal cells makes it easier to get support, that is just piss poor to be honest.)

familybed1.gifnovaxnocirc.gif nut.gifMommy to my amazing 6 yr old dd, we homeschool.gif, and  27 weeks belly.gifpuke.gifand have been sick the whole time so far, grrrrr!!!!!!!

Kailey's mom is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 03:58 AM
 
mwright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle,wa
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just want to throw up right now.:

Melissa loving my DH and DD(4yr)hearts.gif Most likely in my garden. Two angel.gif that I'll remember forever. My baby is here!!! Ethan Matthew came at 42 weeks on 5/19/10 9.10 lbs hbac.gif
mwright is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 03:13 PM
 
Proverbs31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well it doesn't help that the Vatican and Focus on the Family both condone it; makes it easier for people to justify it that way.

Wasn't there a new cell line harvested fairly recently (within the last 10 years or so) for an AIDS vaccine? I think its called PRC-5...
Proverbs31 is offline  
Old 09-05-2007, 03:47 PM
 
AuntNi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
My best girlfriend and her DH are Catholic. When she was expecting, I asked if she was planning to vax. She was planning to vax selectively/delayed schedule. I asked if she'd heard about the aborted fetal cells, and she was very skeptical. I could tell she was just too polite to call me a liar, and she couldn't believe such a thing was possible. It's hard for me to believe the Vatican would condone such a thing. Personally, it just gives me one more reason to distrust them.

Nichole
wife to Sasha, mom to Marlena, nursed for 3.5 years, aunt to 3 adorable nephews
AuntNi is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off