Why do selective/delayed vaxers choose HIB and Prevnar? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm currently doing some major research/soul searching about whether to give my now 4-month-old any vaccines. Thanks in advance for any responses!

In looking through the selective/delayed vaccination archives, I see that most parents give HIB and/or Prevnar first. From what I've read, I'm unsure about whether it's worth it to give those two because they only reduce the risks of meningitis, etc. from those two types of bacteria and possibly make a child more susceptible to other types. So I'm just wondering why selective/delayed vaxers are choosing HIB and Prevnar out of all of them to give? Thanks again!
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#2 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 03:32 PM
 
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Hib is IMO particularly scary. I am not afraid to admit being scared of meningitis...

"Children who survive Hib meningitis may develop permanent neurological disability, including brain damage, hearing loss, and mental retardation. 15% to 30% of children who survive Hib disease are at risk for these disabilities. 5% to 10% cases of Hib meningitis are at risk of dying."
http://www.who.int/immunization/topi...en/index1.html

Not my idea of good odds.

Here's another good link about Hib
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs294/en/

"The rate of invasive Hib disease has been reduced by 95% in neonates and infants since the introduction of its preventative vaccines...Hib was the leading cause of bacterial meningitis in children under age 5 before its vaccines were introduced. "

http://www.meningitisfoundationofame.../80/index.html

Prevnar is another issue and my baby is waking up so I don't have time to address it, but lots of S&D's are NOT choosing Prevnar, not sure why you'd lump those two together. Anyways I hope that helps about Hib. My reasons are a) Hib is scary and can be fatal b) The vaccine is very safe c) The vaccine is very effective. In a nutshell Gotta go!
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#3 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, prettypixels! I just put them together because it seems like a lot of posters are selectively vaccinating are doing Hib, Prevnar, and polio - those seem to be the three that people are doing before 6 months on the delayed schedules they post. I'll look over the links you sent - thanks for including them.
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#4 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 05:12 PM
 
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Those 3 are what our nurse practitioner recommended we get if we go with selective/delayed schedule. I, too, would like to why, since those are not the ones I would get. we're not vaxing anymore, btw.
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#5 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 05:16 PM
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that the pre-vax Hib numbers are a guess as it wasn't a notifiable disease before the vax came out. In addition, as far as anyone can tell without good numbers, the incidence was dropping before the vax was widely used. Perhaps an increase in the number of babies being breastfed?

With breastfeeding and no daycare, this is a less likely problem.

Also, have a look at some of the threads on serotype replacement.
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#6 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 05:17 PM
 
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Hib and prevnar are big issues with us. As recently as 3 months ago I was totally against both, esp for the replacement issue and our risks are low. But we are re examining based on school and play and such.I don't want to do either really, but if we do decide to go with half day camp this summer I might do hib because of the new baby.

So its constantly changing for us. I remember posting just a little while ago that I was ethically against it for the replacement...but now I'm having another look.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#7 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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HIB was the first shot we gave DS, and I agree with the pp who said that menigitis is scary. My brother had spinal meningitis (no clue what type) when he was about 11, and I remember the spinal tap and everything with him in the hospital for a few weeks and it was just a very scary time. Not something I'd like to repeat from a parenting perspective.

That said, I'm not a big fan of vaccinations overall, and we didn't do the prevnar (isn't that a combined shot?). I just looked up the prevnar vaccine, and interestingly, it also talks about meningitis on the product site from Wyeth. Perhaps that is the link between the two vaccines?

I don't know. We didn't do the prevnar, just the HIB vaccine, and we've not yet done polio. My MIL really wants us to do that one, but I think that it's a mostly moot point these days.
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#8 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 05:30 PM
 
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Because Hib and Pc are most serious for infants. So, they were important to us to give to our babies. Not such a big deal for older babies so if you are past 6 mos or so, you might as well skip them all together.
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#9 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 08:12 PM
 
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Doesn't make sense to me. Why vax against a bacteria that is supposed to be there? Fully breastfed are protected anyways. I have kids who never had either cause there were no mandates or it wasn't even a license vaccine then. If they had either, we never knew it as most won't.

Are you told this?

"Children are at more risk of getting Hib disease right after vaccination.
Studies from Science News warn of increased susceptability to the disease during the first 7 days after vaccination. The AAP has warned doctors to look for signs of the disease following vaccination. (AAP policy statement.) Several studies have found that that Hib vaccinated children are up to 6 times more likely than non Hib vaccinated children to contract Hib during the first week following vaccination." (Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal and JAMA).

"In one study of children who got Hib at least 3 weeks after their vaccination, 70% developed meningitis. Additional research shows that antibody levels DECLINE rather than increase immediately following Hib vaccination, even with the newer conjugated vaccines." (Journal of Pediatrics, Pediatrics, and Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal.)

HIB has now made older persons more susceptible too thru the non-vaccinated strains that are stepping in. The answer to that is vaccinating those people too. Neverending cycle...

Prevnar was invented because of HIB. It prevents only 0.1% of getting invasive pneumococcal disease. Hasn't done much for being toted as an anti-ear infection vax either...it has pretty much failed.

An FDA transcript:

“In summary, the Committee concluded that data derived from two efficacy trials are adequate to demonstrate efficacy of Prevnar® against AOM caused by vaccine serotype.

However, the committee expressed concern about the low efficacy (7%) of the vaccine against AOM regardless of etiology and concluded that substantial clinical benefit of Prevnar in reducing AOM regardless of etiology had not been demonstrated. The Committee cautioned against including an indication statement as proposed by the sponsor into the label and suggested using qualifying language if an indication for AOM regardless of etiology were to be added. Committee members cautioned against promoting prevention of AOM as a benefit of Prevnar in direct-to-consumer advertising because of concerns about unrealistic public expectations.

The Committee was concerned that promoting Prevnar as an “AOM vaccine” could potentially compromise confidence in the existing recommendations for the vaccine and trust in the labeling that FDA puts on a vaccine.”
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#10 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 08:16 PM
 
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It never lowered meningitis. It did change it to other types of meningitis though. What you end up with is trading one illness/disease for another.
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#11 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 08:44 PM
 
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My youngest is selectively vaxed. We did one HIB after he turned 12 months and skipped Prevnar.
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#12 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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Doesn't make sense to me. Why vax against a bacteria that is supposed to be there?
Ditto
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#13 of 16 Old 12-03-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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I think it is because these are often the two most likely to be recommended by pediatricians to families considering selective/delayed/nonvax. The current generation of peds have witnessed the effects of these two vaccines. My pediatrician recommended Hib for this reason. Unfortunately, they don't seem to know about serotype conversion.
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#14 of 16 Old 12-04-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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Hib and prevnar are both highly effective vaccines. Problem is that they don't really solve anything since other bacteria fill the void.

-Angela
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#15 of 16 Old 12-04-2007, 11:45 AM
 
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We are delaying and probably selectively vaxing. We were planning to do Hib and Prenvar as meningitis scares me too. But, after doing a lot of research, we decided not to do either, at least for the first year. Hib is extremely rare is breastfed kids not in daycare. And, Prevnar seems to just be shifting the strains. I think in Dr. Sears book he references a study at a children's hosptial where 96% of the cases of serious illness were caused by strains not covered by the vaccine. Since Prevnar seems to be more reactive and I think it caused some problems in my 4 year old (always got a rash/hives afterwards) and a friend's son whose entire leg swelled, and it's still pretty new, we decided the risks of the vaccine outweighed any potential benefit.
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#16 of 16 Old 12-04-2007, 12:14 PM
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that the pre-vax Hib numbers are a guess as it wasn't a notifiable disease before the vax came out.
Yep, and the CDC grouped all Haemophilus influenza cases together, without differentiating the B strain from the others.
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