Why do people rely on a relatively new concept with little to no long term studies? - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-06-2007, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Last night as I was falling asleep, I was thinking about all the recent arguments/debates of the safety of vaccines.

It hit me. Vaccines are relatively new. Humans have been around long before and I'm sure long after vaccines are gone. Why do we trust them so much when there havent been any long term studies on safety? The vax ingredients have changed some over time and it seems there is more and more controversial ingredients being added.

Western medicine is fairly new as a whole considering the medical history behind other nations.

50 years of politicians and media convincing us that vaccines are life savers with some pretty controversial and debatable studies backing them up is not enough to become the guinea pig for this era.....does that make sense to anyone else? :

ETA: Not to mention that the vax shedule is way more intense and therefore we are injected with way more substances than even 20 years ago.....

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Old 12-06-2007, 03:58 PM
 
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I completely agree with you. My sister is in a master's program for chinese medicine and acupuncture and she has said many times that eastern medical doctors just laugh at western medicine and the practices.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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My opinion:

Many people don't know how, are lacking in the confidence, or simply not interested in taking the time to form an objective (as much as possible), educated decision. Some never learned to think for themselves, don't know that they're capable of doing their own research, or are just followers by nature.

There's an arrogance (ignorance) that assumes that "newer" means "better." I see this attitude all the time regarding every possible issue.

But fundamentally, I believe most people are terrified of that which they cannot control (namely, disease and death). That fear creates the desperation to do something, anything, that "feels" like it will avert the things they fear -- even if it's illogical or false.

They've been told that vaccines will keep their baby alive and healthy, and they so desperately want to believe... so they do, even when confronted with evidence to the contrary. It's a cognitive dissonance born of fear.

I think there's something else that drives the fear, but that's a topic for a different board.

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Old 12-06-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beanbean View Post
But fundamentally, I believe most people are terrified of that which they cannot control (namely, disease and death). That fear creates the desperation to do something, anything, that "feels" like it will avert the things they fear -- even if it's illogical or false.

They've been told that vaccines will keep their baby alive and healthy, and they so desperately want to believe... so they do, even when confronted with evidence to the contrary. It's a cognitive dissonance born of fear.

I think there's something else that drives the fear, but that's a topic for a different board.
Yes!

It is a fear that the medical establishment has been able to use to great advantage. There is a whole disciple around it, "fear-based medicine", of which vaccination is a part.

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Old 12-06-2007, 11:06 PM
 
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It's always made me that people call 100ish year old allopathy "traditional" and 5000 year old systems like chinese and ayurved are "alternative".
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:11 PM
 
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Yes!

It is a fear that the medical establishment has been able to use to great advantage. There is a whole disciple around it, "fear-based medicine", of which vaccination is a part.
The industry term for this is to call the population the "worried well". (Well, meaning the source of their income - not "healthy".) And the marketing is framed around increasing this well, of course by increasing the worry.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:25 PM
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Why do people rely on a relatively new concept with little to no long term studies?
Because very few people rely on studies as such. Most of the time most of the people just take the word of a professional and believe it. And when it comes to vaccination, the professionals in question are very fond of 'quoting studies' or at least mentioning that 'studies proved' that vaccination is a gift from God at the very least. So few people are even aware there were no long term studies.

In fact, just today someone entered a vax discussion on a mainstream board with a famous: "It wasn't just out of the blue that vaccinations became mass, there were extensive and long term studies done..." - this is, indeed, a popular belief.
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:50 AM
 
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Because very few people rely on studies as such. Most of the time most of the people just take the word of a professional and believe it. And when it comes to vaccination, the professionals in question are very fond of 'quoting studies' or at least mentioning that 'studies proved' that vaccination is a gift from God at the very least. So few people are even aware there were no long term studies.

In fact, just today someone entered a vax discussion on a mainstream board with a famous: "It wasn't just out of the blue that vaccinations became mass, there were extensive and long term studies done..." - this is, indeed, a popular belief.
Exactly! Exactly! and Precisely!
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:15 AM
 
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It's always made me that people call 100ish year old allopathy "traditional" and 5000 year old systems like chinese and ayurved are "alternative".
Me too! I always thought that was funny.

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Old 12-07-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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A realistic term would be "dominant" medical system. On many levels. But don't forget the value of doublespeak.

They call it traditional rather than dominant for the same reason that the War Department is now called the Defense Department.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:06 AM
 
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i've had people look at me like i was a lunatic when i made a comment about how funny it is that what we currently consider 'alternative' medicine has been around for MUCH longer than allopathic medicine. people truly believe that acupuncture, chinese medicine, ayurvedic medicine etc. are all 'newfangled' and 'new age'.

just like i used to LAUGH when people would oooh and aaaah over my slings and say "wow, i wish they had those when i had my baby!" when the concept of carrying our babies on our bodies vs. strollers etc. is older than dirt.

we're also prepped to vaccinate our kids all through school, with the way that they teach the history of vaccinations like they saved the world from certain doom.

vaccinating is also the default and ubiquitous in our culture of health care. the other day, i was at the dentist and had to fill out a form, and one of the questions on the form was "is your child up to date on their vaccinations?" you can be the most confident non/selective/delayed vaxer...do you know how scary and intimidating it is to answer NO to that question? (i left it blank, for the record. i assessed that this information was not critical for my daughter's dental care so i refused to answer it as my silent protest .)
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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Well, if you read the wikipedia on vaccinations, it's supposedly been around since 200BC, done by the indians or chinese. So I wouldn't say it's a relatively new concept. It's been around as long as the chinese/indians have practiced medicine. I agree there's no long term studies on the recent varieties of vaxes, which is why I don't agree with vaxing, but long term studies require long terms, and most researchers don't have the time to dedicate to those. And really, our society is based on speedy results, not long term plans. That's why the government created a fast track for medicines, so that people that really "need" some medicines can get them quicker. The smallpox vax is the only one that's been around a while, and if you think about it, it's actually been around since before the US was even born!
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
i was at the dentist and had to fill out a form, and one of the questions on the form was "is your child up to date on their vaccinations?" you can be the most confident non/selective/delayed vaxer...do you know how scary and intimidating it is to answer NO to that question? (i left it blank, for the record. i assessed that this information was not critical for my daughter's dental care so i refused to answer it as my silent protest .)
I get very upset when such a question that does not pertain to the care is posed. I always write over it DOES NOT APPLY.

In all the years that I took my kids to the dentist, no one ever asks whether they were vaccinated. Now with my grandkids it seems they shouldn't get their teeth checked unless they had all their shots?

(Not that we go to the dentist often anyway...10 yo. grandson had one repair - missing enamel. That's it!)
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:01 PM
 
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Well, if you read the wikipedia on vaccinations, it's supposedly been around since 200BC, done by the indians or chinese. So I wouldn't say it's a relatively new concept. It's been around as long as the chinese/indians have practiced medicine. I agree there's no long term studies on the recent varieties of vaxes, which is why I don't agree with vaxing, but long term studies require long terms, and most researchers don't have the time to dedicate to those. And really, our society is based on speedy results, not long term plans. That's why the government created a fast track for medicines, so that people that really "need" some medicines can get them quicker. The smallpox vax is the only one that's been around a while, and if you think about it, it's actually been around since before the US was even born!
This is worth noting that the "ancient vaccines" are waaayyy more like pox parties of today than vaccines. Y'know - the things we non-vaxers do that scare the bejeezes out of most people?
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
Last night as I was falling asleep, I was thinking about all the recent arguments/debates of the safety of vaccines.

It hit me. Vaccines are relatively new. Humans have been around long before and I'm sure long after vaccines are gone. Why do we trust them so much when there havent been any long term studies on safety? The vax ingredients have changed some over time and it seems there is more and more controversial ingredients being added.

Western medicine is fairly new as a whole considering the medical history behind other nations.

50 years of politicians and media convincing us that vaccines are life savers with some pretty controversial and debatable studies backing them up is not enough to become the guinea pig for this era.....does that make sense to anyone else? :

ETA: Not to mention that the vax shedule is way more intense and therefore we are injected with way more substances than even 20 years ago.....
Many rely on the experts to guide their decisions. What many do not take into account is the money that will be generated behind the recommendations.

I have decided to rely on the experts who have nothing to gain, and their party line is quite different.
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