Hilary and other non/selective vaxers... care to share you knowledge? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 7 Old 08-21-2003, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello.

My name is Mattia, and I've been reading this forum here and there since I first found MDC last year. Here's a little backround on me. My husband and I originally thought that we would just vax like most people, but then I kept reading about all the people who believe that their children have been damaged by vaccines. So, we decided we would delay the decision until we could be fairly certain we could live with with whatever decision we made . We ended up getting the first HepB vax at Bas' 2 month well visit, because I suddenly felt wishy washy. I felt so sick to my stomach afterward. I told our ped that we were delaying all other vaxes until we were better researched. Then I put the research off, thinking there'd be plenty of time to decide, since we're pretty sure we don't feel comfortable bombarding our young baby's immune system with all those nasty vax toxins. At first our ped was supportive of us delaying his shots until he's atleast two, and was even supportive of us choosing to selectively vax/not vax if that's what we decide. Then he got his own practice, and his insurance rates skyrocketed. Suddenly he was pushing us to get ALL vaxes, even the Prevnar he said he didn't recommend a few months earlier, because of all the bad reactions he's seen. At first I wondered why he had such a change in heart. I stopped wondering during our last visit, when the receptionist tried to charge us $75 more than usual, because she assumed we were vaxing Bas during his checkup. That, coupled with our Ped's complaints about how his insurance premiums are going through the roof, gave me insight into his motives for suddenly trying to push vaccines on us.

That visit 6 weeks ago made me determined to really research, so I'll know my stuff in the face of all the scary statistics and scare tactics our ped seemed to employ during the last appointment, in order to convince us to begin vaxing Bas immediately. It makes me angry that he supported us before because Bas is breastfeeding, not in daycare, and will most likely be homeschooled... but now those reasons aren't good enough to postpone Bas' vaccinations while I research??? I think maybe he thinks that as I become more knowledgable about this issue, he will not be able to scare me into vaxing Bas just because he wants us to. I tend to be suspicious when others have vested financial gain from issues they "support"... this is no different.

Enough about me. Here's why I'm posting...

First off, could you(any of you) please share your most reputable sources that illustrate the possible dangers vaccinations present for some? I've clicked links here and there over the months, but don't know where to find them now. I'm sure a lot of you have an extensive folder full of bookmarked sources/articles, so please share!

Now, on to my questions for all of you. Especially you, Hilary -- I've read some of your posts, and about how you work with families whose children have been damaged by their vaccinations. You've been on the frontlines yourself, so I would really appreciate your insight.

1) Why do our governments not require that the drug companies make vaccines safer? Or that they do a study(long term, especially) of any sort, that PROVES that vaccines do not put our children at risk for conditions like Autism, ADD, ADHD, IBS, Asthma, a host of other diseases/ailments, and possibly death? What do our governments gain by not requiring the drug companies to make safer more effective vaccines? A friend told me my theories were naive and simplistic. So I'm interested in hearing your theories, and seeing sources that may support them. Especially since I've been accused of being a conspiracy theorist.:

2) I realize that cutting corners = better profits for the drug companies. Why don't they make these vaccines safer? Especially when their own children/other family members may be getting these vaccinations? What's in it for them, other than greed(if anything)?

3) What do you say in response to organizations like the CDC, who refute most claims the people who choose to not vaccinate have sometimes made, as "misconceptions", on their website?

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/6mishome.htm

4) What do you say in response to people/health organizations that claim that the ONLY reason some of the population feels comfortable NOT vaxing their children is because MOST people ARE vaxed? That non/selective vaxers benefit from the risk others have assumed by being vaccinated/having their children vaccinated?

5) Do you think a lot of diseases(like small pox and polio) would still be prevelent in much of today's world if not for vaccines? Would you vaccinate your child against these diseases in a world where most didn't vaccinate, if the odds were that your child would contract them?

6) What are your thoughts on herd immunity? Do you feel you are putting others at risk by not having your child vaccinated so that the diseases do not have a chance to mutate? If not, why?

Ok... I think this is a lot to begin with. I would appreciate as many sources/links that support your poisition as possible. I hope some of you are up for this challenge. I see all these links/sources from folks who believe vaccinations are worth the risks/are not proven to be risky. I am happy to learn about their position, as it may help me make better decisions... but I need to also see statistic/sources that support the selective/non vaxing position. Especially if I'm going to expect anyone to believe that my BELIEF that vaccines are not safe is grounded in fact, and not just fear.

TIA! I hope to become an active contributor to this forum.
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#2 of 7 Old 08-21-2003, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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BTW, Hilary... I hope you are impressed with the length of my last post.
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#3 of 7 Old 08-22-2003, 12:02 AM
 
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I just wanted to say that OF COURSE the drug companies can not do any studies on vaccinated vs unvaccinated children-that would not be a moral thing to do!

Insider can add some important details I am sure!


To illustrate a point-people think differently!-I did not give my child Tylenol for a fever he had -101.5
In my thinking ,I did not want to cover up his pain/fever so I would know when to worry-In THEIR thinking,I am nuts-of course you should give Tylenol for fever & pain!

I could back up my reasons with studies I BELIEVE--
THEY CAN ALSO!

It is a difference in belief!
I look at the CDC websites & see reasons NOT to vax-others see reasons they should vax.
Do you get Mothering Magazine?Lots of good articles with references in them -
Hilary?

::
momma to 4
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#4 of 7 Old 08-22-2003, 12:23 AM
 
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my dh and i refused hep b at birth for our newborn son and plan to delay and then selectively vaccinate this baby. My two girls are both fully vaxed, but i am a slow learner i spose

anyway, i started here...

http://www.909shot.com/PressReleases/prthimersol.htm

and u can run searches on google and find some great info there too. also check out the vaccination archives here, i got some good info there
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#5 of 7 Old 08-22-2003, 12:30 PM
 
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here's my cheat sheet that has a lot of sources which may be helpful for your research.

good luck

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...threadid=57794

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

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#6 of 7 Old 08-23-2003, 01:08 PM
 
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1) Why do our governments not require that the drug companies make vaccines safer?

Because they feel the "benefits" outweigh the risks

Or that they do a study(long term, especially) of any sort, that PROVES that vaccines do not put our children at risk for conditions like Autism, ADD, ADHD, IBS, Asthma, a host of other diseases/ailments, and possibly death?

That kind of testing would cost too much and no one would profit.

What do our governments gain by not requiring the drug companies to make safer more effective vaccines?

Money Money Money, position, power

2) I realize that cutting corners = better profits for the drug companies. Why don't they make these vaccines safer? Especially when their own children/other family members may be getting these vaccinations? What's in it for them, other than greed(if anything)?


You don't know how many of those who are really "involved" in the process vaccinate their own children.

3) What do you say in response to organizations like the CDC, who refute most claims the people who choose to not vaccinate have sometimes made, as "misconceptions", on their website?

I choose to believe an immunologist with over 40 years experience over the CDC replete with conflicts of interest.

4) What do you say in response to people/health organizations that claim that the ONLY reason some of the population feels comfortable NOT vaxing their children is because MOST people ARE vaxed?

I would say that is a lie. My decisions re: vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with the vax status of others. Most of the vaccines given today I did fine without, so why should they be pushed on my children?

That non/selective vaxers benefit from the risk others have assumed by being vaccinated/having their children vaccinated?

Everyone has the ability to decide which risks they are willing to assume.

5) Do you think a lot of diseases(like small pox and polio) would still be prevelent in much of today's world if not for vaccines?

They were already on the decline BEFORE the vaccines came about , so no, I don't think they would be prevalent. This isn't 1915 anymore. Look at TB, no vaccine for it, yet cases are on a steady decline WITHOUT a vaccine. Would you give credit to a vaccine if one were available? Would you believe it if others tried to tell you that the disease was on the decline BEFORE the vaccine, or bow under the accusation that you are just a conspiracy theorist?

Would you vaccinate your child against these diseases in a world where most didn't vaccinate, if the odds were that your child would contract them?

No, I contracted many of them as a child. Who should decide which parts of nature should be messed with?

6) What are your thoughts on herd immunity?

I think it's a bunch of ca ca. They tell us epidemics would ensue if the vaccination rate fell below 90%. Well, it's below 90 in almost every state in the US...

Do you feel you are putting others at risk by not having your child vaccinated so that the diseases do not have a chance to mutate? If not, why?

Are you implying my unvaccinated child is full of mutating diseases? Do you feel that the vaccinated children are taking away me and my children's ability to natural boosting?

I would appreciate a link from one of your doubting friends that shows a long term study done on the saftey and effectiveness of injecting a child with up to 40 vaccine doses before he is 5 years old, just one. Can you (or they) manage that?
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#7 of 7 Old 08-23-2003, 01:37 PM
 
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I don't vax because I witnessed my cousins permanant and severe reaction to DPT in the 70's. My mom selectively vaxed me. I did read up on it more when I had dd but that was nearly 15 years ago and I can't remember my sources anymore.
Regardless, no source is ever as life changing as personal experience. BTW, my mom is in her mid 50's so I don't agree that no one of that generation questioned vaxing. She wasn't a hippie and didn't care if something was natural either.
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