Help, weird vaccine reaction? :( - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, despite my fears about vaccines, I have been going ahead with the Dr. Sears vaccine schedule with our DS. My fears about the diseases outweighed the other fears.

We started at 12 weeks with DTaP and Rotavirus (going to stop doing this one though), and a month later (a week ago) we went back for Hib and Prevnar. He had a horrible reaction to one of those two - screaming all day, screaming himself to sleep, arching his back, a weird whiny cry he has never done before in between screaming, etc. We gave him Tylenol once or twice that day and he was close to back to normal the next day (but slept like all day) and is "normal" now, EXCEPT for something that doesn't really make sense to me but that is definitely different.

When I pick him up by under his arms, his arms feel different, it feels like how it felt when he was younger, or like when he is sleeping. Like he isn't "helping" anymore, kwim? DH doesn't notice it and thinks I'm nuts, but I think that's b/c he is much stronger in upper body strength than me and so when he picks up DS it's more by around his chest than relying on hooking his underarms at all.

I hope I am describing this in a way that makes sense. He just feels like weaker when I pick him up that way, but I know it isn't that he has necessarily gotten more "weak" b/c he is still doing great with tummy time and since the shots has continued to advance in his abilities, he now grabs things, is stronger in his arms pushing off things, etc. It's just when I pick him up that way that there is a serious difference.

He hasn't been back to the pedi. yet but I know she will probably say he feels fine, etc. My whole family agrees he is the same, but I keep trying to tell them, I am his mom, I am with him all day, holding and picking him up all day, I pick him up more times a day every day than anyone else, DH would be the only one who might pick him up enough to tell a difference but again, he goes about it a different way.

What kind of reaction could this be? Do you think it is a reaction?

I know that if I explain to my pedi. that it started after the vaccines she may brush it off at least in her own mind b/c she knows I am concerned about vaccines and she knows that's why we're delaying some and spacing them out, etc. And, I don't think she'll think there's any issue anyway. He can still use his arms just fine and has even learned to grab things since the two shots. It's JUST when I pick him up, it's like he is not "helping," it's like he is asleep, or sort of like a toddler who does NOT want to be picked up and puts his arms in the air. Sometimes his arms will go up like that or sometimes sort of behind him. I'm sorry, it's hard to describe.

And my family seems to think I am just paranoid about vaccines too and I am just like projecting this weird thing onto DS. But why would I do that - I've never heard of such a strange, random side effect and I didn't "make" anything up after his first two vaccines.

Any thoughts or advice??

Obviously after his reactions to the Hib and Prevnar I am seriously wondering where we should go from here with continuing to vax or not vax. Not sure what to do.
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#2 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 11:35 AM
 
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That is very common reaction with the DTaP. The screaming, arched back, etc. It's really scary isn't it!

I would take him to your doctor as soon as possible just to check everything out and have his "non-reaction" (if they view it as such) documented. I would definately want the doctor to take a look.

** edited to say...I meant the "non-reaction" part sarcastically but wasn't clear enough on my actual point.

I think it could be a reaction and should get some attention.
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#3 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 11:42 AM
 
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Sounds like a reaction to me. I would definitely report it.

NO WAY I would continue vaccinating after a high pitched screaming fit reaction.

If you're truly SO scared of all the diseases- you need to do more research. STOP the vaccines until you have finished your research. There is NO rush.

-Angela
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#4 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Sounds like a reaction to me. I would definitely report it.

NO WAY I would continue vaccinating after a high pitched screaming fit reaction.

If you're truly SO scared of all the diseases- you need to do more research. STOP the vaccines until you have finished your research. There is NO rush.

-Angela
I completely agree.
This all sends off alarm bells to me. The screaming, the more limp body, etc.
I do not think you are projecting, and it is unfair for you family to say that. You are his mama and you know him best.
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#5 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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what am I supposed to do now? No one is going to believe me that his body is doing this thing differently.

And is there a reason the high-pitched screaming is such a red flag? Believe me, it absolutely breaks my heart to hear him scream like that, but on the other moms forum I'm on, it seems like the high-pitched screaming is the "norm" (horrible I know) after shots. Is there something I'm not aware of though (i.e. is it thought that the screaming is more than pain/soreness?).

Has anyone ever heard of the reaction I am describing in terms of his arms when I pick him up?

And I agree with what you are saying that I need to research more, but I will be honest that the more research I do, the more confused I am, the more paranoid I am - about the diseases, and the vaccine dangers. Everything I read seems biased one way or the other. I thought that selective and delayed vaxing was the answer for us, but now I'm not so sure, but the numbers and info about the diseases are still just too frightening for me to skip them all together. I am most concerned about Hib and whooping cough. I am also most concerned (obviously) about diseases that are most likely to be deadly for infants.
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#6 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momtokev View Post
what am I supposed to do now? No one is going to believe me that his body is doing this thing differently.

And is there a reason the high-pitched screaming is such a red flag? Believe me, it absolutely breaks my heart to hear him scream like that, but on the other moms forum I'm on, it seems like the high-pitched screaming is the "norm" (horrible I know) after shots. Is there something I'm not aware of though (i.e. is it thought that the screaming is more than pain/soreness?).

Has anyone ever heard of the reaction I am describing in terms of his arms when I pick him up?

And I agree with what you are saying that I need to research more, but I will be honest that the more research I do, the more confused I am, the more paranoid I am - about the diseases, and the vaccine dangers. Everything I read seems biased one way or the other. I thought that selective and delayed vaxing was the answer for us, but now I'm not so sure, but the numbers and info about the diseases are still just too frightening for me to skip them all together. I am most concerned about Hib and whooping cough. I am also most concerned (obviously) about diseases that are most likely to be deadly for infants.
For now you put on your mama-bear hat and protect your baby. The high pitched screaming often comes from brain inflammation. It's a well known reaction to some vaccines.

The Dr. Sears schedule is neither really delayed nor selective. It is nearly every vaccine available almost exactly on schedule.

Don't read opinions. Read information. Numbers. How many cases. How many reactions. Ingredients. Then branch out and research how to treat the diseases.

Whopping cough- not a danger past 6 months really. A pain, but not a danger.

Hib- you didn't have this vax- did you ever worry? Have classmates drop dead? This is one of the bacterial vaccines- does a GREAT job of eliminating a few strains- problem is the way bacteria work, a different bacteria fill the void. The strains covered in the vaccine are almost un-heard-of now. Still getting the same problems (meningitis etc) Pre vaccine by age 5 nearly all children were immune without any serious signs of illness.

You say you're scared of the diseases. Which other diseases scare you? Have you looked at numbers of cases? What's the chance your child will ever come into contact with them, much less as an infant?

-Angela
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#7 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:41 PM
 
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Stop talking about it with everyone and their brother irl. The only one that has input in this decision is your DH.

Yes, your dc's reaction is common, but that does not mean it is not harmful or a warning of possible things to come with continued vaccination.


Quote:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ht=DTaP+SCREAM
It has been established that pertussis and measles-containing vaccines cause encephalitis. For the purposes of VICP guidelines, onset of encephalitits from pertussis-containing vaccines is 24-48 hours and between day five and fifteen for the MMR, M, MR and R vaccines.

From the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the late 80's:

The neurologic signs and symptoms of encephalopathy may be temporary with complete recovery or may result in various degrees of permanent impairment.

Signs and symptoms such as high-pitched and unusual screaming, persistent inconsolable crying, and bulging fontanel are compatible with an encephalopathy, but in and of themselves are not conclusive evidence of encephalopathy
. Encephalopathy usually can be documented by slow wave activity on an electroencephalogram.


Today it reads:

The following clinical features alone, or in combination, do not demonstrate an acute encephalopathy or a significant change in either mental status or level of consciousness as described above: Sleepiness, irritability (fussiness), high-pitched and unusual screaming, persistent inconsolable crying, and bulging fontanelle. Seizures in themselves are not sufficient to constitute a diagnosis of encephalopathy. In the absence of other evidence of an acute encephalopathy, seizures shall not be viewed as the first symptom or manifestation of the onset of an acute encephalopathy.

FTR, they have put a name to this adverse reaction: Crying Syndrome or Screaming Syndrome.

Now to put things into perspective -- how many parents of the of the signficiant number children who have experienced this type of reaction are told to go to the emergency room in order to do the necessary testing for encephalitis?

In just a ten year period (1991-2001), there were 10,000 reports of unusual crying and screaming syndrome. Just in this period alone. Couple that with the fact that just a tiny amount of vaccine adverse events are even reported . . .
Most people on this board do not vaccinate, some partially vaccinate, some are not vaccinated themselves, and there are a couple who are the second or third generation vax free. My first is partially vaxed and my second is completely vax free .


For an even handed treatment of the issue I recommend "Vaccinations, A Thoughfull Parents Guide" by Aviva Romm. For keeping your dcn healthy and to treat VPDs: "Naturally Healthy Babies and Children: A Commonsense Guide to Herbal Remedies, Nutrition, and Health" by Aviva Romm and "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by pediatrician Dr. Mendelsohn. Also, take a look at the links in my siggy.

This is a good group and it also has message boards.
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#8 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:46 PM
 
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Hib only protects against one serotype. This vaccine works so well that it is putting itself out of a job, as a majority of these infections are being causes by another serotype (see the inside vaccines link for more on this).

Meningitis is an infection that causes inflammation of the membranes covering the brain and spinal cord. Non-bacterial meningitis is often referred to as "aseptic meningitis."

The most common causes of meningitis are viral infections that usually resolve without treatment. However, bacterial infections of the meninges are extremely serious illnesses, and may result in death or brain damage even if treated.

Meningitis is also caused by fungi, chemical irritation, drug allergies, and tumors.
  • Bacterial meningitis is most commonly caused by one of three types of bacteria: Haemophilus influenzae type b, Neisseria meningitidis, and Streptococcus pneumoniae bacteria.
  • The bacteria are spread by direct close contact with the discharges from the nose or throat of an infected person.
  • Bacterial meningitis can be treated with antibiotics.
  • Prevention depends on use of vaccines, rapid diagnosis, and prompt treatment of close personal contacts.

Bacterial meningitis is a serious infection of the fluid in the spinal cord and the fluid that surrounds the brain.

What is bacterial meningitis?
Meningitis is an infection of the fluid in the spinal cord and the fluid that surrounds the brain. Meningitis is usually caused by an infection with a virus or a bacterium. Knowing whether meningitis is caused by a virus or a bacterium is important because of differences in the seriousness of the illness and the treatment needed.
VIRAL MENINGITIS is usually relatively mild. It clears up within a week or two without specific treatment. Viral meningitis is also called aseptic meningitis.
BACTERIAL MENINGITIS is much more serious. It can cause severe disease that can result in brain damage and even death.

What bacteria cause bacterial meningitis?
Bacterial meningitis is most commonly caused by one of three types of bacteria: Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), Neisseria meningitidis, and Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Where is bacterial meningitis found?
Bacterial meningitis is found worldwide. The bacteria often live harmlessly in a person's mouth and throat. In rare instances, however, they can break through the body's immune defenses and travel to the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. There they begin to multiply quickly. Soon, the thin membrane that covers the brain and spinal cord (meninges) becomes swollen and inflamed, leading to the classic symptoms of meningitis.

How do people get bacterial meningitis?
The bacteria are spread by direct close contact with the discharges from the nose or throat of an infected person. Fortunately, none of the bacteria that cause meningitis are very contagious, and they are not spread by casual contact or by simply breathing the air where a person with meningitis has been. (So 'just living in the doormrooms is not enough).

What are the signs and symptoms of bacterial meningitis?
In persons over age 2, common symptoms are high fever, headache, and stiff neck. These symptoms can develop over several hours, or they may take 1 to 2 days. Other symptoms can include nausea, vomiting, sensitivity to light, confusion, and sleepiness. In advanced disease, bruises develop under the skin and spread quickly.
In newborns and infants, the typical symptoms of fever, headache, and neck stiffness may be hard to detect. Other signs in babies might be inactivity, irritability, vomiting, and poor feeding.
As the disease progresses, patients of any age can have seizures.

Who is at risk for bacterial meningitis?
Anyone can get bacterial meningitis, but it is most common in infants and children (not college students). People who have had close or prolonged contact with a patient with meningitis caused by Neisseria meningitidis or Hib can also be at increased risk. This includes people in the same household or day-care center, or anyone with direct contact with discharges from a meningitis patient's mouth or nose.

How common is bacterial meningitis?
In the United States, bacterial meningitis is relatively rare and usually occurs in isolated cases. Clusters of more than a few cases are uncommon.


Most people with viral meningitis usually start getting better within 3 days of feeling sick and recover within 2 weeks. Bacterial or severe viral meningitis may require treatment in a hospital, including:
  • Antibiotics: Antibiotics are given only when bacteria are causing the infection.
  • If meningitis is causing pressure within the brain, corticosteroid medicines such as dexamethasone may be given to adults or children.
  • Measures to reduce fever.
  • Measures to prevent seizures.
  • Oxygen therapy.
  • Monitoring fluids. Liquids are given into a vein (IV) if you have an infection and are vomiting or are not able to drink enough.
  • Monitoring blood chemicals. Frequent blood tests are done to measure essential body chemicals, such as sodium and sugar in the blood.
A person who has severe meningitis may need to be treated in the intensive care unit (ICU) of a hospital.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#9 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 12:50 PM
 
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I might not be remembering correctly so correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the package inserts tell parents that if the baby screams for more then 3 hours then you should not continue to vaccinate.

Is this correct? It’s been a long time since I looked into this and could be way off but it’s worth looking into.

I also remember reading something about loose limbs being a reaction to certain vaccines. I’m not sure if that means what you are describing or totally loose like the child can’t lift their arm.

I would look into it. I don’t have time right now but here is a link to the vaccine inserts and you can look up the ones you got at the last appointment.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
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#10 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momtokev View Post
I am most concerned about Hib and whooping cough.
the hands down best thing you can to do protect your child from Hib is to continue breastfeeding. serotype replacement is a real problem and a real concern with real consequences, and it just hasn't been talked about yet. dr. sears does not mention it at all in his book, and imo that is a tremendous oversight. once you learn about it, it becomes much easier to rule out this vaccine and do what has been scientifically proven to decrease the incidence of invasive disease due to haemophilus influenzae...nurse your baby!!

as for whooping cough, yes it is concerning, but again, this vaccine (and particularly the pertussis portion of the vaccine) is pretty reactive. there is actually a name for the high pitched crying/screaming that you described and it is called the 'dtap scream' for good reason, as it is the vaccine that causes it the most often. it might be 'common', but it is in no way 'normal'.

the best way that i've found to alleviate fears about disease is to learn as much as you can about how to treat them. there are allopathic, holistic, herbal, nutritional as well as good old fashioned 'common sense' ways to treat the childhood illnesses.

but there is absolutely no known way to 'treat' a vaccine reaction. how could there be, when the medical establishment hardly recognizes that reactions occur?

also, vaccines do not work 100%, so vaccinating does not absolve anyone from doing the requisite research about how to treat illness. since vaccines aren't anywhere near being totally effective, there is still the 'worry' of what to do if your child still gets pertussis, or mumps, etc. etc. PLUS the added 'worry' of vaccine reactions.
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#11 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 01:23 PM
 
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FYI - breastfeeding protects against ALL strains of Hi, not just b, and even after weaning

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/26/2/443
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#12 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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I can only say I hate the Dr. Sears vaccine schedule. Actually any vaccines. I have come to believe a lot of those doctors who write those books don't even vaccinate their own kids but they got to toe the party line or they won't get published.

Your child most likely got brain encephalitis from DTaP.

There is a whole book dedicated to that shot - DTP. It's from H. Coulter and it's called A Shot In The Dark. And by gosh that's what it is. They give kids shots and have not clue of how that child will react.

I am so sorry for your child and I am so glad that my dd does not vaccinated our grandchildren. They are so healthy and I really believe it's because they have never been vaccinated.

You don't have to take your child to doctors. You don't have to inject all that stuff into your child. You don't have to do anything except what is in your mommy gut and tells you it's the best for your child. You are the only one who has to deal with the child is there is a life-long vaccine reaction. And believe me, it happens a lot. There are thousands, if not millions of vaccine damaged kids out there. Many of them die of leukemia and other horrible long term adverse affects to the vaccine. Awful things that we never had in children when I was growing up. So sad!
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#13 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 04:23 PM
 
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I'm not as wise as the other mamas here but I do know what you are going through. That high-pitched scream is only "normal" because it happens so often. My dd had that too at 2 mth shots and I've never gave her another one since then. It broke my heart when I found out that was a vaccine reaction, and not "normal" at all.

I see what you are trying to describe about your LO's arms being limp and that doesn't sound normal to me at all even if no one else agrees with you. If YOU think something's wrong, then you're probably right. If I were you, I'd stop vaccinating for now until you are certain you want to continue.

no point in talking to your pedi about it, I say. When I told ours, he said it's her "being 2.5 month old" -whatever that means

I also hate Dr sears' vaccine schedule! (and his book ) I recommend reading another book in the vaccine issues.
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#14 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 04:33 PM
 
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I would guess that either he is experiencing some pain from inflammation that's making him unwilling to "help" you pick him up, or it could be some low grade hypotonia from a neurological event. The screaming is consistent with that as well. My daughter has hypotonia due to a rare disorder and I often describe picking her up or holding her as similar to a sack of potatoes.

Continuing to give vaccines to children who have previously reacted to them seems in some ways similar to repeatedly exposing an allergic person to a known allergen- the reactions become more severe each time. Of course, sometimes vaccine reactions are actually allergic reactions and sometimes they're not, and then there is a lot that isn't understood based on the medical community's eagerness to cover up rather than study reactions. But what I am saying is that I would expect his next reaction to be as bad or worse. Whether that risk is more or less than the diseases is up to you to decide. Start with what you are most concerned with and read everything you can from reputable sources.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#15 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 04:44 PM
 
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I wouldn't care what anyone else said was normal.

Screaming for any period of time, much less for HOURS is not okay with me under any circumstance. I would NOT allow anyone to talk me into thinking that was "normal" and would not put my child through that.

I agree w/ PP. If you think something isn't right then it probably isn't. I would make sure to have your Ped document the adverse reaction.
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#16 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 04:45 PM
 
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[QUOTE=momtokev;10745758]OK, despite my fears about vaccines, I have been going ahead with the Dr. Sears vaccine schedule with our DS. My fears about the diseases outweighed the other fears.

We started at 12 weeks with DTaP and Rotavirus (going to stop doing this one though), and a month later (a week ago) we went back for Hib and Prevnar. He had a horrible reaction to one of those two - screaming all day, screaming himself to sleep, arching his back, a weird whiny cry he has never done before in between screaming, etc. We gave him Tylenol once or twice that day and he was close to back to normal the next day (but slept like all day) and is "normal" now, EXCEPT for something that doesn't really make sense to me but that is definitely different.

When I pick him up by under his arms, his arms feel different, it feels like how it felt when he was younger, or like when he is sleeping. Like he isn't "helping" anymore, kwim? DH doesn't notice it and thinks I'm nuts, but I think that's b/c he is much stronger in upper body strength than me and so when he picks up DS it's more by around his chest than relying on hooking his underarms at all.

I hope I am describing this in a way that makes sense. He just feels like weaker when I pick him up that way..."



My advice....FOLLOW your INSTINCTS. I should have done that with my daughter after she had a similar reaction as you desribed (minus the weakness) after her first set of shots, and with the next set, it got much worse and she began head-banging, clawing, and having mild, brief seizures. She is four now and I believe her behavioral and sensory issues are due to the shots.

When my second daughter was 5 months old, I was working full time, and pumping and leaving my milk with her. Well, one day I was very low on pumped milk, so I sent her with bottles which were half soy formula, half breastmilk. I felt so wrong doing it. In my head, I thought...lots of people use formula...full time, at that..and this is just a tiny bit of supplementing...she is getting so big, surely her stomach will be able to handle it. But in my heart, it just felt very wrong. I had a sick feeling about it in the pit of my stomach.

Well they called me that afternoon to say that she wasn't "tolerating" the milk I sent. She had violently vomited up the first bottle, then seemed ok, so they gave her another bottle, and she threw that one up too. I rushed over there, crying, and nursed her. She seemed the way you described your son...weak, lethargic...just not herself. She was like that for a few days following. I think that soy milk just ripped into her little stomach...maybe she has a soy sensitivity, I don't know. But I definitely should have listened to my instincts on that one. I felt so guilty for making my baby sick.

Loving mother, Devoted Wife
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#17 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 08:44 PM
 
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I understand that "fear" you are talking about. But like the other mothers said.... breastfeeding is the BEST protection you can give your baby. Why don't you take a look at some kids that aren't vaccinated. I know lots of mothers that have chosen not to vaccinate and their children are sooo healthy (inlcuding my DS). I hear way more about children having vaccine reactions then catching any of the diseases. We don't need to inject all that junk into our bodies, our God-given immune system works just fine on its own.
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#18 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 10:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momtokev View Post
We started at 12 weeks with DTaP and Rotavirus (going to stop doing this one though), and a month later (a week ago) we went back for Hib and Prevnar. He had a horrible reaction to one of those two - screaming all day, screaming himself to sleep, arching his back, a weird whiny cry he has never done before in between screaming, etc. We gave him Tylenol once or twice that day and he was close to back to normal the next day (but slept like all day) and is "normal" now, EXCEPT for something that doesn't really make sense to me but that is definitely different.

When I pick him up by under his arms, his arms feel different, it feels like how it felt when he was younger, or like when he is sleeping. Like he isn't "helping" anymore, kwim?

....

Obviously after his reactions to the Hib and Prevnar I am seriously wondering where we should go from here with continuing to vax or not vax. Not sure what to do.
Hang on everyone...if I'm reading her post correctly, her DS had the screaming after Hib and Prevnar, not DTaP. I don't believe that prolonged high pitched screaming is common after Hib or Prevnar. I'd have to look at the insert again.

Now, just for discussion purposes...is it possible there was anything else bothering your DS that day? A tooth? Uncomfortable clothes? Something you ate that passed through your breastmilk and upset him system? That would explain the crying, arching back, etc. It *could* be purely coincidental that it happened around the time he received a vaccine. Hib and Prevnar are two of the least reactive vaccines there are. If he was going to react with screaming, it's MUCH more likely with DTaP.

FWIW, and before I get flamed, I don't vax anymore...my DS2 has an immune deficiency associated with his chromosomal deletion and in the process of researching vaccines in relation to his specific case, I came to the conclusion that none of the vaccines on the current schedule are right for either of my sons right now. I constantly re-evaluate and watch disease trends, vaccine safety studies, ingredients, etc.

Back to your post...the appearing limp when lifting him issue... It does seem odd. Did it start at the same time as the screaming, or shortly before/after? It would make sense to me that he was a bit limp the day he was doing all the screaming, that's really draining to a baby. Is it *possible*, just possible, that it started then, freaked you out a little, and you think it's still happening because you're so scared that it's happening? Does that make sense?

I am in no way underscoring your concern at all, but there might not be a need to jump to the conclusion that it was a vaccine reaction. And please, no flames for this, I'm just trying to evaluate all alternatives. I give DS2 RSV immunoglobulin once a month because of his special needs...after his first dose of it he got sick within 36 hours with a severe stomach virus that lasted for 8 days...I freaked out thinking it was a reaction, then my 2 yr old also got sick and I realized I was over-reacting. DS2 has an immune deficiency, it's much more likely he simply picked up a stomach bug at the drs office when he got the RSV vaccine.

So, the screaming was not the DTaP scream, it may or may not have been vaccine related. The limpness, depending on when it started, may or may not be vaccine related. I'd say what you should do is get some videotapes of him doing normal activity so you can compare them later if you have further concern.

As far as vaxing further...only you can make that decision. The decision tore me up until we had the final diagnosis for DS2. His case is a little different since he's special needs...he's the one child that WOULD die from Pertussis or RSV or flu. But he's also more likely to react to the vaccine.

So it's a very painful decision for some of us... , I understand. No judgement here, just support while you navigate through the decision.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#19 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, 2boyzmama, yes, the screaming was after Hib and Prevnar. He actually didn't seem too bothered after the DTaP and Rotavirus, but sleepy. No flames from me, I appreciate your thoughtful response, the possibilities you mentioned are definitely reasonable. The videos are a good idea. Sorry to hear about your son, that must be hard.

Thanks everyone for your responses and support.. definitely lots to think about.

Also, today my sister was over and playing with DS, she said to me randomly how it seems like there is a little more "resistance" in his arms when she goes to pick him up. She is not one of the family members I've talked to about this situation. While I don't think I was imagining things to begin with, it's very upsetting and scary to hear someone else notice the same thing with him.. obviously I'd rather me just be crazy than have him really have something wrong. Do you think this could be temporary? Today was one week exactly after the two shots.

Does it seem strange to anyone else that his arms just feel that way when picking him up - that he hasn't lost arm strength in general, he grabs things just fine, etc.. ? When I describe this to the doctor she may say, well, there's not a problem if he is meeting his developmental milestones.
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Hang on everyone...if I'm reading her post correctly, her DS had the screaming after Hib and Prevnar, not DTaP. I don't believe that prolonged high pitched screaming is common after Hib or Prevnar. I'd have to look at the insert again.
You are a more careful reader than I was , but I there are posters here that have reported similar reactions to the Prevnar vax. Prevnar supposedly rivals DTaP in the number of vaccine reactions; perhaps that came from a VAERS comparison?


Quote:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=prevenar
This was a study of VAERS reports from 2/2000 - 2/2002:


SOURCE: Wise, R. Journal of the American Medical Association, Oct. 13, 2004; vol 292: pp 1702-1710. News release, JAMA/Archives.


A study conducted by researchers Robert Wise, MD, MPH, of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and colleagues analyzed data from the national Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) during February 2000-February 2002, the first two years since Prevnar was licensed.

Prevnar vaccine protects infants and toddlers (the most vulnerable age group) against infection caused by the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae. Prevnar fights potentially lethal pneumococcal infections, such as infection of the brain and its surroundings, infection of the blood stream, and severe pneumonia.

A vaccine against pneumococcal infection is given as part of routine pediatric practice and is typically given to children at ages 2, 4, 6, and 12 to 15 months, with catch-up doses through 9 years of age.

Reviewing more than 4,000 reports of side effects after licensure of the Prevnar vaccine, Wise's team found that most reports were for "minor adverse events" previously seen while the drug was being tested in clinical trials.

"Common adverse events in the first days after vaccination included injection site reactions, fever, irritability, drowsiness, restless sleep, decreased appetite, vomiting, and diarrhea," write the researchers.

Most reports of side effects (74%) occurred in a setting where multiple Prevnar vaccinations where administered at the same time. In the majority of cases (87%) reported symptoms began a week after vaccination.

However, 600 cases were described as "serious events," including 117 deaths and 34 cases of invasive pneumococcal infection indicating possible vaccine failure. The interval between time of death and vaccination with Prevnar varied although the average was 51 days.

Of all the reported cases nearly 38% included at least one neurological symptom, such as altered walking or stance, and seizures were reported in 400 cases.

"Although allergic reactions, prolonged or abnormal crying, fussiness in infants, dyspnea [breathing difficulties], and GI distress are common childhood symptoms apart from immunizations, their occurrence with positive rechallenges after PCV increases the possibility of occasional causal relationship with vaccination and, therefore, warrants continued surveillance for these events," the authors write.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#21 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 01:20 AM
 
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Does it seem strange to anyone else that his arms just feel that way when picking him up - that he hasn't lost arm strength in general, he grabs things just fine, etc.. ? When I describe this to the doctor she may say, well, there's not a problem if he is meeting his developmental milestones.
Obviously I haven't been paying attention today; I didn't realize this is so recent. It seems likely to me that he would eventually recover from that, though you may want to keep notes on it in case you need to follow up on it later with a specialist.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#22 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 02:08 PM
 
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The following is what hilary butler has to say on the topic:

Quote:
...we had a lot of this in 1987, after a vaccine called menomune A. okay, that's not Hib or Prevnar, but it's a "bacterial meningitis" vaccine.

There were two types of weakness noted.

One was [weakness similar to what was described], but it was accompanied by a reluctance to be touched, to have diapers changed. Some paediatric neurologist speculated that it could be mild Guillain barre, which any vaccine can cause. 99% of GBS is abortive, which means it only involved the limbs and stops. 1% goes on to affect and switch off the breathing, which can be scarey, or affects the arms and shoulders long term.

The other type of weakness was hypotonia, but this was more generalised.... Usually about a month later, the mother would notice strabismus, or 'vacant' staring spells, which by another couple of months would develop into petit mal, or other types of seizures. But a mother has to be on the ball to see them, because they usually look quite different to grand mal seizures. There's a whole raft of different types.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#23 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 04:30 PM
 
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you may want to keep notes on it in case you need to follow up on it later with a specialist.
Yes, absolutely document everything right now. Get a notebook and write down the date of the vaxes, which vaxes, the reactions, the changes in behavior, etc. Hopefully he has no long term issues but if he does your log will be very helpful in his treatment.

So sorry you are dealing with this. And I agree with the others, stop vaxing until you know what is going on with your son and have had time to do more research.

The Most Important Person on earth is a mother...She has built something more magnificent than any cathedral-a dwelling for an immortal soul, the tiny perfection of her baby's bodyâ¦-Cardinal Mindszenty
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#24 of 24 Old 03-13-2008, 04:59 PM
 
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Is it possible he is fighting off some kind of infection and the lymph nodes in his armpits are swollen and tender? I know this happens to me sometimes when I've got a flu/cold bug.

That said, 4 mos was the age my son was when he had a vaccine reaction. He woke up the next day paralyzed or limp from the neck down. He didn't move his arms, legs, fingers, nothing below the neck for 25 hours. It was terrifying. Needless to say, we don't vax anymore.
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