Excluding unvaxed kids from school during 'outbreak' - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-16-2008, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Has anyone had to deal w/ this before? I was just reading over our rules for the schools here and realized if ANYONE at the kids' school (well, AJ's the only one who would be in school this year) gets measles, he's automatically out of school for 14 days. If ANYONE gets rubella, he's out for 23 days! That's the one I don't get. I'm assuming we just do all his work at home, but w/ attendance policies like they are (after 10 missed days the state would get notified) would we have problems w/ them trying to hold him back etc. I would fight of course, but I hate extra hassles.

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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Old 03-16-2008, 01:31 AM
 
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Nope, and I have a 4th grader.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:37 AM
 
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NO, and my kids are grown.

We have been in public & private schools.

I am glad that they HAD to tell ME first about an outbreak and I feel sorry for the others that they may not be told or would be told later.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:35 AM
 
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I've been running into this with daycare. We're in a DoD sponsored facility and it says that anyone with a relig. exemption has to remove the child whenever there is a documented outbreak of disease. We've only had to remove her once b/c of chickenpox in the month since we've filed our exemption letter. This doesn't make any sense to me. I mean they didn't tell all the other non-vaxed kids to go home! There are dozens of children and babies who are too young for the vax but they get to stay. We had to remove our DD because we had an exemption on file. I thought it sounded like religious discrimination. But what the h*!! do I know??
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:26 AM
 
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I don't understand why this doesn't make sense.

Quarantine is a long-respected response to disease outbreaks.

Vaccinated kids' chances of getting the disease are far lower than those of unvaccinated kids.

It stands to reason that only the unvaccinated kids need to be quarantined.

Why would you want your kids to go to school in that case? You don't know whether some children might have weakened immune systems and therefore might be especially at risk if they were exposed.

A big reason for vaccination is so that we don't all have to get quarantined all the time, since we live in such densely populated areas and kids are exposed to such large populations of potential carriers (at school) so often.

I don't see the big deal.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:27 AM
 
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Well, by the time someone physically breaks out with something, they've already exposed everyone around them. Most diseases are most contagious before outbreak.

But, it's not true that vaxed kids have a lesser chance of getting sick. 80% of children who get vaccinated are still likely to still get the disease they were vaccinated for (like rubella and pertussis). Some of the vaxes shed.

The thought that vaxed kids are ""safer" is ludicrous.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mahtob View Post
I don't understand why this doesn't make sense.

Quarantine is a long-respected response to disease outbreaks.

Vaccinated kids' chances of getting the disease are far lower than those of unvaccinated kids.

It stands to reason that only the unvaccinated kids need to be quarantined.

Why would you want your kids to go to school in that case? You don't know whether some children might have weakened immune systems and therefore might be especially at risk if they were exposed.

A big reason for vaccination is so that we don't all have to get quarantined all the time, since we live in such densely populated areas and kids are exposed to such large populations of potential carriers (at school) so often.

I don't see the big deal.
The big deal is that it really doesn't make any sense. What covertlycrunchy mentioned about her child having to stay home (because of having a religious exemption on file) while other children who are not vaxed (because of being too young to receive the vax) would be allowed to attend. This is completely absurd and discrimination IMO. In addition to this, vaccines are not 100%, so there are children who are vaxed who would still get the illness anyway and continue to spread it - even without the children who are vax-free attending. It's completely absurd.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahtob View Post
I don't understand why this doesn't make sense.

Quarantine is a long-respected response to disease outbreaks.

Vaccinated kids' chances of getting the disease are far lower than those of unvaccinated kids.

It stands to reason that only the unvaccinated kids need to be quarantined.

Why would you want your kids to go to school in that case? You don't know whether some children might have weakened immune systems and therefore might be especially at risk if they were exposed.

A big reason for vaccination is so that we don't all have to get quarantined all the time, since we live in such densely populated areas and kids are exposed to such large populations of potential carriers (at school) so often.

I don't see the big deal.
Ummm the big deal is that soon all non vax kids will need to be home schooled if the schedule keeps increasing. They are adding the flu shot to every age soon. So when 1 kid in DS's school gets the flu, he needs to stay home for 10 days? What about the chicken pox? What about the new super bug/cold vaccine they are working on?

What about the fact that most of the kids who get sick in these "outbreaks" are vaccinated yet the unvax kids need to stay home....

I could go on.

To the OP. I too worry about the state laws on absences. Doesn't the no child left behind say something like if you miss 20 days in a school year, you fail the grade and need to redo it? I really worry about this.

I do not want to home school and neither does DH but he keeps reminding me over and over that we might be forced to do this by the time DS is in school.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:30 PM
 
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One child getting sick from the flu does not constitute an outbreak of flu, so no, that will not be an issue.

And when was the last outbreak of measles, mumps, rubella, or diptheria at your local school?

Quote:
mentioned about her child having to stay home (because of having a religious exemption on file) while other children who are not vaxed (because of being too young to receive the vax) would be allowed to attend
Now that is irrational but that is not what the original poster posted about. What would be consistent for covertcrunchy's school to do would be to ask all the children to stay home.
Quote:
Well, by the time someone physically breaks out with something, they've already exposed everyone around them. Most diseases are most contagious before outbreak.

But, it's not true that vaxed kids have a lesser chance of getting sick. 80% of children who get vaccinated are still likely to still get the disease they were vaccinated for (like rubella and pertussis). Some of the vaxes shed.

The thought that vaxed kids are ""safer" is ludicrous.
1. Just because people have been exposed does not mean it is wise to continue exposing them, as more and more people get sick. As soon as the school knows that children are falling ill, it seems reasonable to order a quarantine. And moreover, the vaccinated kids who were exposed, in many cases, will not be able to carry the disease, whereas the unvaccinated children can. I know this is not true for all diseases but it's true for some. So yes, it does make sense to quarantine people. Your first sentence seems to imply that quarantine in and of itself is useless, which we know is not the case. (Some people against vaccination, in fact, insist that polio is being eradicated almost solely through quarantine! Which is odd, I think, but whatever.)

2. Can you please give a statistic for, 80% of children who are vaccinated are going to get the disease for which they've been vaccinated? Because that would imply that something like 78% of the population under 40 has had measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, polio, pertussis, tetanus, and so on. I think we know that this is false.

Some of the vaccines shed, but not forever! They shed for a few days, and when we say "shed", we do not mean, fall off the body like stray hairs. We mean, they come out, usually in the person's feces. So if people are not washing their hands, and getting vaccinated at the age of seven, that's an issue. But most of the shedding is long over before kids are at school (MOST, I said, not all) and anyway, it is not likely to infect people in institutions with modern santiation.

Finally, in every outbreak of pertussis and measles in North America and in Europe, a much larger percentage of the unvaccinated population was affected. The evidence is so overwhelming that I'm not even going to post the tens of Pub Med documents here. If you can post a single case of an unvaccinated community coming out of an outbreak better off, from a reputable scientific publication, I'll eat my words.

3. Are you suggested that vaccination confers no immunity for any disease? Go ahead and suggest it, but any cursory examination of studies from around the world, from Libya to Russia to America to Peru, shows that vaccinated children do fare better.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have no problem w/ my kids being sent home as necessary, but 23 days being excluded from school (just reread the rules, that's 23 days from the rash onset of the last known case) b/c a 6th grader that my child has never seen at school has rubella? The other diseases are all 'quaratine can be reccomended if sick child has CLOSE contact to unvaxed child but isn't always reccomended', that makes sense, the 2 I posted don't make sense to me. The child who actually has rubella is contagious (from what I've read 7 days prior to the rash and 7 days after the rash appears, but only has to stay home at LEAST 4 days from after the rash starts and then can come back to school. Our school does NOT exclude for cp which is fine w/ me.

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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Old 03-20-2008, 03:42 AM
 
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One child getting sick from the flu does not constitute an outbreak of flu, so no, that will not be an issue.
HA! One child? HA!

This season, every single one of my friends with a baby or child had the flu shot. DS and I did not. We ALL got the flu. Every single mom in our group, every single baby. What kind of schools exist where only one child gets the flu? I'm curious.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:45 AM
 
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Mahtob,

Some parents want their kids to be exposed to measles and mumps.

Natural immunities and whatnot.

Kelly, mama (12yoDS), doula, RN, and writer.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mahtob View Post
One child getting sick from the flu does not constitute an outbreak of flu, so no, that will not be an issue.
The OP has already clarified that if ANYONE gets a case, it is considered an "outbreak". So it very well could be an issue.

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Old 03-20-2008, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MilkTrance View Post
HA! One child? HA!

This season, every single one of my friends with a baby or child had the flu shot. DS and I did not. We ALL got the flu. Every single mom in our group, every single baby. What kind of schools exist where only one child gets the flu? I'm curious.
Yeah Exactly! This flu or virus or whatever is going around this year
is an epidemic. It's bad.
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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AJ had the flu, Ilana had a small part we think, not too bad, the rest of us missed it thankfully. There are a TON of people here who have gotten it, including many people I know who had the vax. The flu vax is not required here, they can't quarantine for that. The 2 I mentioned are the only 2 that they absolutely will send an unvaxed child home for, no matter what. I just wondered if anyone had been through it.

Jennifer, LPN and nursing student, Doula, CPST, and VBAC mama x3 to
AJ (5/03), Evan (12/04), Ilana (11/06), Olivia (2/09), and Unity (8/2012)

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