Let's get the facts straight (rant) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My niece was recently vax'd for Gardi.sil. It came up at a family gathering when some of us noticed the bruising on her arm. I was surprised because I know her and her parents and it just wasn't something I'd thought they'd choose.

I mentioned it to my SIL in passing today. She told me that the ped told her that it helps protect against cervical cancer and they recommend it for all girls 12 and up. SIL was shocked when I explained that it protects against certain strains of HPV, an STD, which causes cervical cancer. If you're not engaging in at-risk sexual behavior then the vaccine isn't going to decrease your odds of developing cervical cancer.

I'm sure I'm biased, because I come from a religion and culture where sex is reserved for marriage, but I'm so tired of the commercials and doctors making it sound like everyone will benefit from this vaccine! I would have no problem vaccinating my girls if they wanted it or we had any reason at all to think they had chosen not to follow the religion of their parents. I want them to be healthy more than anything. I get that it's easier to default vax all girls because not all of them will be comfortable enough to say they want it, and many parents will say their daughters "don't need it" when, in fact, they do. I do get that. But I think that girls and their guardians have a right to all the facts before getting a vaccine!

But I don't think it should be an automatic to vax for HPV, and I REALLY have issues with how the doctor presented this to my SIL. He's lucky he's not MY doctor :

Rant over.
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#2 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:15 PM
 
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I can't tell you how freaking tired I am of hearing "cervical-cancer vaccine." It makes me crazy!
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#3 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:15 PM
 
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I wish there was more "truth in doctoring". It seems so often that drs don't tell you the risks of what you are doing and it's scary. I mean, what she was told was a lie, it is not what her dr told her it was. Why isn't there a consequence for a dr giving wrong, not just mistaken or unknown, but flat out wrong info?? I've had more than one experience where I've researched and challenged a dr on something and it has not been well recieved.
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#4 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
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#5 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:20 PM
 
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Yeah, I think they're really campaigning hard and it's ridiculous.

"I'm going to be one less!" is their tagline for it One less WHAT, exactly? Person who gets an STD that doesn't lead to cancer? Maybe.

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#6 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamaofprincesses View Post
My niece was recently vax'd for Gardi.sil. It came up at a family gathering when some of us noticed the bruising on her arm. I was surprised because I know her and her parents and it just wasn't something I'd thought they'd choose.

I mentioned it to my SIL in passing today. She told me that the ped told her that it helps protect against cervical cancer and they recommend it for all girls 12 and up. SIL was shocked when I explained that it protects against certain strains of HPV, an STD, which causes cervical cancer. If you're not engaging in at-risk sexual behavior then the vaccine isn't going to decrease your odds of developing cervical cancer.

I'm sure I'm biased, because I come from a religion and culture where sex is reserved for marriage, but I'm so tired of the commercials and doctors making it sound like everyone will benefit from this vaccine! I would have no problem vaccinating my girls if they wanted it or we had any reason at all to think they had chosen not to follow the religion of their parents. I want them to be healthy more than anything. I get that it's easier to default vax all girls because not all of them will be comfortable enough to say they want it, and many parents will say their daughters "don't need it" when, in fact, they do. I do get that. But I think that girls and their guardians have a right to all the facts before getting a vaccine!

But I don't think it should be an automatic to vax for HPV, and I REALLY have issues with how the doctor presented this to my SIL. He's lucky he's not MY doctor :

Rant over.
I totally agree. We, too, are part of a religion that reserves sex for marriage. IDEALLY, for us, my kids will follow through with this and it won't be an issue in their health, either. (I realize they may not, but they're only 8 and 6 and 5 mos -- we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.)

I guess my big gripe w/ it is that it's touted as life saving, like alllll the rest and ppl just blindly buy into it. Sheeple.

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#7 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maygee View Post
I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
amen

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#8 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:33 PM
 
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What really bothered ME about the advertising here in Canada is one commercial that has a girl sying she's smart, so she is getting the vax. EXCUUUSE ME??? WTF?

No commment on the religion thing.
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#9 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:38 PM
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preacher, meet choir over here. s:

honestly, i say the same thing over and over and over and over.

now, in my worldview, sex before/outside of marriage is ok. that is, "risky" sexual behavior is acceptable behavior (when consciously chosen, an extension of healthy sexuality, etc).

i want to educate my children--daughters and sons--about sexuality, sexual health, sexual relationships. i was raised this way, with no judgment about sex before marriage or what have you--only that there are choices and that choices have consequences. some good, some not so good. so when making choices, we have to weigh those consequences.

if my daughter chose to become sexually active as a teen, and would then likely have many partners, i might talk with her about this vaccine and it's benefits.

then, she can choose whether or not she wants this vaccine.

but i wouldn't just give her a vaccine because she could decide--as i did--to not have sex with someone until she's in a committed relationship (though we were not married at the time). and if that relationship ends (say, divorce, etc), she could then decide if the vaccine is right for her or not.

i really don't like the marketing of this vaccine either.

it might also be noted that of the 4 types of HPV most likely to lead to cervical cancer (which, btw, is not the only way that cervical cancer manifests anyway), most women clear it out of their systems before there is any problem what so ever. so, while many people get HPV, very few actually get these four strains, and since most women clear it out of their system naturally, only a few of the women who get these strains of HPV actually develop cancer from these strains.

so, in reality, it doesn't protect from very much at all.
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#10 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maygee View Post
I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
Great post
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#11 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:40 PM
 
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I totally agree. We, too, are part of a religion that reserves sex for marriage. IDEALLY, for us, my kids will follow through with this and it won't be an issue in their health, either. (I realize they may not, but they're only 8 and 6 and 5 mos -- we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.)
That's all fine and good, but rape happens to chaste people, too.
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#12 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maygee View Post
I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
Agreed! Wonderfully put!

Mama to DS (05/04) and DD (11/05), married to a wonderful DH.
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#13 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't mean to make it sound as though it's a bad thing to opt for this vaccine, or that if you do you must be immoral. I can see many reasons for choosing it. My rant is about the doctor giving incomplete/inaccurate information.

I, personally, would not get it for fear of contracting HPV from a rape. The odds of that are not sufficient for me to choose the vaccine. Again, if someone wanted it for that reason that's their choice, but this doctor didn't give enough information regardless.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by mentioning MY religious choices. I wouldn't force them on anyone, including my kids.
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#14 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 05:54 PM
 
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The "one less" campaign also bugs me because shouldn't it be "one fewer?"
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#15 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 06:31 PM
 
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I hear ya, sister! I had to go to the quack back in December for the flu/fever/whatever it was and he spent more time talking down to me about how I should get the vaccine than he did talking about why the hell I was actually THERE! I told him, NO, I am NOT sexually active and will not be sexually active until marriage, and that the guy I marry would have the same standards THUS I had no interest in the vaccine (I didn't even want to get started on how I'm anti-vaccines!), and he just totally ignored me and said "Well you never know what'll happen." UM yeah, thanks for ignoring me and essentially saying that I might change my standards. Hmm maybe when hell freezes over and pigs fly!

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#16 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 06:36 PM
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The "one less" campaign also bugs me because shouldn't it be "one fewer?"
Exactly! How smart is the character in the ad, again? Hmmm? And the people selling this vax can't even get their grammar right? Hmmm!
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#17 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
 
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Slightly OT, but when I was in hospital a few weeks ago being induced for pre-eclampsia, the doctor who took my medical history ('Is there any disease in your family?' Um, no, none of my ancestors ever died... what the fish?) BERATED me for not having annual cervical smears. Now, my GP had told me it wasn't that vital for me, as I was young and not sexually active until marriage, but anyway... I was staggered by the nerve of the guy. He was supposed to be taking my history, not spouting public health announcements, and given that I was 24 hours away from having a BABY, did he really think I was in the mood to hear about cervical smears? *mutter*

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#18 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 07:09 PM
 
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Yearly? You get them that often in the USA?

ours are like 3 yearly or something unless you have a history of abnormal smears.. mine are 6 monthly cos I 've had several borderline ones on the past so I can't remember exactly how long it's supposed to be.
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#19 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 07:15 PM
 
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I'm not for this vaccine but it has nothing to do with 'morals'.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#20 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 07:40 PM
 
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This annoys me because it is NOT a cancer vaccine. It's an std vaccine. ARGH! Why don't they at least market it for what it really is, especially since HPV is not that only cause of cervical cancer.

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#21 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by maygee View Post
I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
:

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#22 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 09:25 PM
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The "one less" campaign also bugs me because shouldn't it be "one fewer?"
No, the exception to the "fewer" rule is when you're only talking about a difference of one.

I ate three apples. I now have fewer apples.

Or, I ate one apple. I now have one less apple.

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#23 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 09:34 PM
 
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This annoys me because it is NOT a cancer vaccine. It's an std vaccine. ARGH! Why don't they at least market it for what it really is, especially since HPV is not that only cause of cervical cancer.
this.

it drives me CRAZY!
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#24 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 09:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maygee View Post
I hear your frustration, but I can't agree with this argument because is turns it into an test of morality. HPV is a std but it is so incredibly common that attaching any stigma is ridiculous. It's not that HPV is an std and therefore preventable by "purity" and I am CERTAIN that there are many honorable people with HPV. My argument is that cervical cancer is easily detected in the very early stages with regular exams and paps, therefore making a dubiously effective, possibly harmful injection unnecessary, and when pushed on every child, unethical. We don't even need to bring "morals" into it.
YES YES YES YES YES!

HPV is shockingly common.
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#25 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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I think the whole ad campaign is incredibly misleading. I think that it should be changed.

To my husband I am wife, to my kids I am mother, but for myself I am just me.
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#26 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 10:11 PM
 
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This annoys me because it is NOT a cancer vaccine. It's an std vaccine. ARGH! Why don't they at least market it for what it really is, especially since HPV is not that only cause of cervical cancer.
Because they won't get as many parents getting an STD vax for their daughters as they will a cancer vax.
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#27 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 10:12 PM
 
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I agree with all of you about Gardisil. I also want to point out the lack of testing that has been done. I don't have the numbers in front of me but the trial group was a very small amount (maybe 5000?) and was only done several years ago. We/they have NO IDEA what this vaccine might do to these girl's bodies down the road. Infertility, tumors, cysts, etc.
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#28 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 10:17 PM
 
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I'm not for this vaccine but it has nothing to do with 'morals'.
:

Apart from the rather alarming evidence that this particular vaccine may carry some very hefty risks, listen closely to the marketing:

This vaccine may help to protect against a few of the factors which may contribute (they don't say cause, if I'm not mistaken) to the development of some cases of cervical cancer.

So even the ad is saying that the vaccine is at best dubious in its helpfulness.

I have other objections but I'll keep them to myself for now
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#29 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 10:20 PM
 
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I totally agree. We, too, are part of a religion that reserves sex for marriage. IDEALLY, for us, my kids will follow through with this and it won't be an issue in their health, either. (I realize they may not, but they're only 8 and 6 and 5 mos -- we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.)
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That's all fine and good, but rape happens to chaste people, too.
Do you mean that people should get the vaccine because they might be raped?
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#30 of 100 Old 04-02-2008, 10:35 PM
 
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Yearly? You get them that often in the USA?

ours are like 3 yearly or something unless you have a history of abnormal smears.. mine are 6 monthly cos I 've had several borderline ones on the past so I can't remember exactly how long it's supposed to be.
It depends on the doctor (and probably your insurance carrier). My doctor now does a test for HPV on your first visit. If you're positive, you get a yearly pap. If you're negative, she does it every other year. The other doctors I've had in the U.S., though, did it yearly. When I lived in Australia, Medicare (the national health coverage) would pay for a test every two years. I asked my doctor about it and she said that statistically, almost all cervical cancers will be caught in time with the every two year testing. It was an economic decision made by the government - it cost them less to test every other year and miss some people (and pay for the cancer treatment) than it did to pay for women to be tested every year.
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