New here, and just wondering... - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
bordermomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: currently GA, moving to S. Texas
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi all~

I'm Cheri, wife to Donald and momma Nathan (9/11/98) Daniel (8/29/00) and Elijah (10/16/02) and we currently live in GA. I'm writing really to get opinions and advise. My children are non vaccinated by our choosing BUT we are moving in 4 weeks to live very near a border town. I currently live in an area that has a fairly high rate of immigrants moving in also. Our ped is ok with our choice...it of course is his job to support vax and remind me of the issues out there etc but he doesn't pressure me or condesend my decision. Anyway, I've been thinking/worrying lately because we are moving so close to an area where there will be a very high concentration of unvax children (losing the 'herd immunity') and with lower living conditions and hygine etc. I don't want to make a decison based on fear, but I also don't want to lead my children into an area where they will be targets and have to live with the guilt of something I ''could'' have prevented. Along this note what could I do to boost immunity (I give vit c and echinaeca) and to help keep them as healthy as possible in these circumstances?

Warmly~
Cheri
bordermomma is offline  
#2 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 08:31 AM
 
goodpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pittsboro, NC
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...the only thing, as far as I see it, that you'd be accomplishing by vaxing at this point would be weakening their immune systems when they do come up against whatever is waiting at the border.

You see, what vaxes do is substitute "chronic" disease for "acute" disease.

This is one reason that we are now having new epidemics of infectious diseases that used to be far less frequent. The vaxed kids immune systems are so spent that they can't muster an
"acute" response to anything.

Take a look at this graph from the CDC of all places (that's how stupid they are):


http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/emergplan/box01.htm


Look at the little inset chart there, starting 1982 when they really got the vax system up to full steam. See what I mean?


It sounds like you need a refesher on why you didn't vax in the first place.

Best 150 pages I ever read (and I've probably read more than 10 times that in 2.5 years):

Jamie Murphy's "What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization"

Also, as much organic as you can afford, bottled water for drinking-- municipal is full of crap.

Greens, Greens and more Greens!

start checking out this place: http://www.ewg.org


Procreate, Lactate, Disseminate!


Ray

P.S. Any breastfeeding at your house?
goodpapa is offline  
#3 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 03:14 PM
 
Tracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "It's Chinatown, Jake"
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
whoops double post

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

Tracy is offline  
#4 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 03:15 PM
 
Tracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "It's Chinatown, Jake"
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is there any particular disease your most concerned about?

I live in Los Angeles, there is only one other city in the world that has more Mexican Nationals than Los Angeles and that is Mexico City.

I take my unvaxed child to the park, downtown, at times we ride the public transit... I don't worry too much about it.

Polio has been eradicated out of this hemisphere so that doesn't concern me. Even mealses is not partiularly high in Mexico. Not that would bother me... I grew up with all the childhood diseases.

For me I boost my son's immunity system with vitamin C and with some probiotics...

there have been no cases of Hib in this county of 10 million people...

which one concerns you maybe more research on the disease stats or treatment might be helpful...let us know...

good luck

tracy

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

Tracy is offline  
#5 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 05:32 PM
 
IslandMamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
this is a teeny tiny bit OT, but..

Goodpapa, I have a question about the graphp. I want to show it to my ped in my effort to back my non-vax decision, but I have a ahrd time reading the inset chart.

What is the interval of numbers on the left.... is it still per 100,000 people?... I can't see if the zeros are in there or not. I'm assuming it must be.

If so, that graph alone is enough of a smoking gun for me. Good grief.
IslandMamma is offline  
#6 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 05:32 PM
 
IslandMamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
this is a teeny tiny bit OT, but..

Goodpapa, I have a question about the graph. I want to show it to my ped in my effort to back my non-vax decision, but I have a hard time reading the inset chart.

What is the interval of numbers on the left.... is it still per 100,000 people?... I can't see if the zeros are in there or not. I'm assuming it must be.

If so, that graph alone is enough of a smoking gun for me. Good grief.
IslandMamma is offline  
#7 of 16 Old 10-06-2003, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
bordermomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: currently GA, moving to S. Texas
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for all your responses.

Your right papa I need to go back again and reread all my information. I know we are doing what is right for our family...but I've been getting lots of ''but your moving to the edge of the country, there will be lots of stuff just waiting'' from my extended family and so it's causing me to second guess myself.

Yes I've breastfed all my boys. All were exclusively bf until 6 months, my oldest till he was 8 -- because he showed no interest in solids till then. The oldest two bf till they were 17 months...sadly my youngest who will be one next Thursday self weaned about 3 weeks ago

Anyway, again I appreciate your input so much.
bordermomma is offline  
#8 of 16 Old 10-07-2003, 11:03 AM
 
goodpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pittsboro, NC
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...for bringing that to my attention. Actually, the inset "y" numbers make no sense at all. It looks like they start with "two" and repeat "2", then "3" twice, etc.

I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Your doc will probably be peeing in her/his pants too much to notice.


No more human sacrifice!


Ray

P.S. When I first saw this graph 2.5 years ago there was a "click to enlarge" feature that is gone now.

I honestly think the "powers that be" don't even know it's there.
From the looks of it I'll bet that not everyone at the CDC is on board with the VAX HOLOCAUST.
goodpapa is offline  
#9 of 16 Old 10-08-2003, 04:37 PM
 
irishprincess71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Highjacking the thread for a minute here -

Hilary -

in a recent thread you stated that immunable diseases had decreased drastically not from vaccinations but from better hygenie, cleaner invironments and better eating, i.e. access to "greens" as Goodpapa put it . And yet on this thread you stated

Quote:
It is my experience that immigrant children brought up in these situations where perhaps their houses and facilities are somewhat more basic, have far less allergy problems, and far stronger immune systems than children brought up where everything is pristine, or whatever went before, or came after, was scrubbed with a ton on antiseptic
How do these two trains of thoughts meet? If "dirtier" environments develop naturally stronger immune systems then how does cleaner environments lead to less diseases?
irishprincess71 is offline  
#10 of 16 Old 10-08-2003, 06:37 PM
 
Gale Force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nestled in the Sierras
Posts: 5,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
On the CDC graph -- I assume that the y-axis goes 20, 25, 30, 35, etc. It looks like the second digit is not showing with whatever graphic software they are using.

On the immigrant issue, I think I just saw an article somewhere about immigrant children being healthier. I'll have to see if I can find it. Life is a little crazy here so I didn't even read it, just registered its existence in my brain. From the headline, I assumed that it was because immigrants don't eat as much junkfood. Even a diet is poverty may be more nutritious than what I see kids eating for lunch -- a Big Gulp and a super-sized bag of chips.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

Gale Force is offline  
#11 of 16 Old 10-08-2003, 10:13 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,437
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
When people are living in extremely unsanitary conditions:

say 20 households sharing one sink and one outhouse, dirty drinking water, one bath per week or less, poor diet with insufficient fresh fruit and vegetables, etc., etc. then disease will be common and infant mortality will be high. Add to this thousands of people living crowded together, adulterated foods (chalk in the bread is one I've heard of), no birth control except abstinence and illegal abortions...I'm not nostalgic for the good old days unless I could be a member of the ruling class

The conditions I've described were common in European and North American cities until around 1910, although some cities were much better than others. They are common today in some developing countries.

A moderate amount of dirt, such as being around pets and farm animals, playing outside, living in a house where germs are allowed (lysol not sprayed on all surfaces, and so forth) seems to support a healthy immune system.

Childhood illnesses, with fevers, also seem to be a good idea, so the current tendency to give tylenol or whatever, whenever the temp goes up, probably whacks the immune system too. Not to mention using vaccines to prevent the normal childhood illnesses.

So, it is all about moderation. Don't wash your floors everyday, let your children crawl around in the grass (unless chemlawn has been visiting) and even eat the occasional bug. Pets are good, dirt is good, breastmilk is the best.

Cheers,
Deborah
Deborah is online now  
#12 of 16 Old 10-08-2003, 10:17 PM
 
Tracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: "It's Chinatown, Jake"
Posts: 12,452
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, my own understanding is that the big bugaboo is really around the topic of water. That's where cleanliness helps bring down disease, but dusty, dirty floors etc...not a problem and probably far better than a fully clean chemical house.

I'm sure Hilary will show up with a thought.

Check out New Moon on my Astrology Site

http://tracyastrosalon.blogspot.com/

 

Tracy is offline  
#13 of 16 Old 10-08-2003, 10:32 PM
 
irishprincess71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks ladies - that does make sense.

The only thing that I get really intense about in my house is DS sticking his shoe in his mouth to eat it and trying to pick up the cat litter (can you say yuck). And of course since having a baby I probably get around to cleaning my bathrooms about once every 2 months.
irishprincess71 is offline  
#14 of 16 Old 10-09-2003, 11:46 AM
 
goodpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pittsboro, NC
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...GREAT POST!





Ray
goodpapa is offline  
#15 of 16 Old 10-09-2003, 11:58 AM
 
cat_astrophe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: State of Confusion, Official Tour G
Posts: 1,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, I needed an excuse not to mop the floors today.... How can I make time to mop when there is so much research to do anyway?
cat_astrophe is offline  
#16 of 16 Old 10-09-2003, 06:50 PM
 
amnesiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: at the end of the longest line
Posts: 4,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
amnesiac is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off