Question about serotype replacement - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 3 Old 06-04-2008, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't been on here for a while, so my apologies if this has been asked ad nauseum.

I need some clarification about serotype replacement. With Hib and pneumococcal disease, which of the following is the case? (Forgive me if I am not using the terms correctly.)

A. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases (all of them - A, B, C, etc.) have remained the same, but there are fewer cases of Hib B and more cases of the other type.

B. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases have gone down, due to the vaccination, so the percentages of the other serotypes have gone up proportionally in comparison to B.

And the same question relative to pneumococcal disease (the Prevnar vaccine) -- there are clearly more cases now being reported of strands not covered by Prevnar, but

A. Has the total number of cases stayed the same, with non-Prevnar strains increasing in number?

or B. Are the non-Prevnar strains increasing proportionate to Prevnar strains, but the total number of cases has gone down?

And could anyone point me to some studies about this?

Thank you!
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#2 of 3 Old 06-04-2008, 04:18 PM
 
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Will these help?

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?page_id=24

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?page_id=31

http://www.healthcarerepublic.com/ne...resistant-bug/

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=803491

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=24

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=574250

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=816429

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=803208

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=845418


Most discussion links are for serotype replacement but there are quotes and links to actual studies. Hope that helps! I have bookmarks galore.

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#3 of 3 Old 06-04-2008, 09:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junomama View Post
I haven't been on here for a while, so my apologies if this has been asked ad nauseum.

I need some clarification about serotype replacement. With Hib and pneumococcal disease, which of the following is the case? (Forgive me if I am not using the terms correctly.)

A. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases (all of them - A, B, C, etc.) have remained the same, but there are fewer cases of Hib B and more cases of the other type.

B. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases have gone down, due to the vaccination, so the percentages of the other serotypes have gone up proportionally in comparison to B.

And the same question relative to pneumococcal disease (the Prevnar vaccine) -- there are clearly more cases now being reported of strands not covered by Prevnar, but

A. Has the total number of cases stayed the same, with non-Prevnar strains increasing in number?

or B. Are the non-Prevnar strains increasing proportionate to Prevnar strains, but the total number of cases has gone down?

And could anyone point me to some studies about this?

Thank you!
Ok...

Quote:
A. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases (all of them - A, B, C, etc.) have remained the same, but there are fewer cases of Hib B and more cases of the other type.
The overall number did dip down for a while, but now it's back up to where it was when the conjugate vaccine was introduced.
You can see it here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

And read about it here:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...10.1086/518283

Quote:
In addition to the proportional increase in cases of non-type b Haemophilus influenzae disease in the post-H. influenzae type b vaccine era, the incidence of invasive H. influenzae disease was found to be approaching the rates of H. influenzae type b disease that were documented in the prevaccine period. Fifty-six percent of invasive disease now occurs in individuals aged >10 years.


Quote:
B. The total numbers of Haemophilus influenzae cases have gone down, due to the vaccination, so the percentages of the other serotypes have gone up proportionally in comparison to B.
Nope. That's what the CDC would like you to think, though.


Quote:
And the same question relative to pneumococcal disease (the Prevnar vaccine) -- there are clearly more cases now being reported of strands not covered by Prevnar, but

A. Has the total number of cases stayed the same, with non-Prevnar strains increasing in number?

or B. Are the non-Prevnar strains increasing proportionate to Prevnar strains, but the total number of cases has gone down?
Overall pneumococcal cases ARE down right now, but Prevnar increases h-flu and staph infections "absolutely" (as opposed to just "relatively") AND non-vaccine pneumococcal cases have risen "absolutely" (not just relatively) over where they were pre-vaccine, and it was also seen in the Prevnar clinical trials in the Prevnar'ed kids compared to the placebo'ed kids.

You can see it in this study:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi...10.1086/498745
When you look at this chart from that study:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/act...F498745&id=fg1

Here's some more stuff:
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?page_id=146

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1482988

Quote:
If the association is causal and acquisition of S. pneumoniae eradicates S. aureus carriage, then use of pneumococcal vaccines may eliminate the “protective” effect of S. pneumoniae against S. aureus carriage and an increase in S. aureus carriage will follow. Increased S. aureus otitis media has been observed among vaccinees in a pneumococcal conjugate vaccine randomized trial (23). Whether the current increase in severe community-acquired S. aureus infections, including methicillin-resistant S. aureus (6), is partially caused by the recent introduction of the pneumococcal conjugate vaccine is yet to be determined.
So the overall net benefit to these two vaccines appears to be zilch.

Hope that helps.

ETA:
Here's a good three part series about it.
part one
part two
part three
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