**NEW PIX**VADs being misdiagnosed due to widespread vaccine usage - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know that Pertussis is often mis-diagnosed due to widespread vaccination, and I've heard that Measles is often now called "non specific viral rash", and Rubella is majorly under-reported.

My older son is covered with scabby/yellow crusty spots that I thought were bug bites initially, but now--especially after finding them on two neighbor kids--I suspect are actually chicken pox. He has them all over his head, neck, back, stomach, and groin. There are new ones appearing every few hours. None on his arms, legs, or face. I took him to the dr because my youngest son is special needs including an immune deficiency. (my youngest son, by the way, has two spots that look like bug bites, not blistering or scabbing yet, but they've been there less than 24 hours)

The dr said he thinks it's impetigo, not chicken pox, and I quote "especially since Ian has had the vaccine, as have the neighbor kids who have the same rash." I pointed out to him that I thought impetigo started in one general area and spread outward from there, and Ian has them widespread in no noticeable pattern. Also that new ones are still popping up. He said that it doesn't look quite like chicken pox, he's almost sure it's impetigo.

I'm fine with treating Ian with some antibiotics since many of his spots look pretty nasty (the yellow crusty and scabby areas from several spots kind of meld together, especially on his head) but I went ahead and called Connor's infectious disease dr to talk it over with him. He put in an anti-viral for Connor because of his known immune deficiency. He said that waiting until we know for sure that it's chicken pox will lose some time for treating it, and if it turns out to not be chicken pox, the antivirals won't hurt him.

SO...looking for opinions here. Do you think that the drs are more hesitant to diagnose chicken pox now that there's a vaccine for it? And what do you all think about the anti virals for Connor??? Or for that matter, the abx for Ian? I'm going to take some pictures of the spots tonight, I'll post an update when I upload them.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#2 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 08:25 PM
 
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Sure, sometimes they are initially misdiagnosed. A big part of the problem there is that vaccination alters presentation so it's not always so obvious. Another thing is that with many diseases public health has become more reliant on lab confirmation so it's possible that things were overdiagnosed previously.

So yeah, it's possible it could be the pox. And it's also possible some of those pox/spots/whatever could have a secondary bacterial infection. If I had a seriously compromised child like yours then I'd probably wouldn't hesitate with anti-virals if I felt there was a good chance it was cpox. But you're there witnessing everything firsthand so you're really the best judge of things.
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#3 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 08:26 PM
 
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Yeah i heard they like to mess with the stats so more people get their kids vax'd.

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#4 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post
Sure, sometimes they are initially misdiagnosed. A big part of the problem there is that vaccination alters presentation so it's not always so obvious. Another thing is that with many diseases public health has become more reliant on lab confirmation so it's possible that things were overdiagnosed previously.

So yeah, it's possible it could be the pox. And it's also possible some of those pox/spots/whatever could have a secondary bacterial infection. If I had a seriously compromised child like yours then I'd probably wouldn't hesitate with anti-virals if I felt there was a good chance it was cpox. But you're there witnessing everything firsthand so you're really the best judge of things.
You have some very good points here...I hadn't thought about overdiagnosing before vaccines...very good point. The dr did tell me that since Ian had the CP vax, he might not present "typically", and because Connor is so young and gets so much breastmilk, he also might not present with a "typical" case.

Great, nothing can ever be "typical" in my household!!!

I am going to start the antivirals with Connor. I see a questionable spot on his back now, it's just red and slightly raised, might be the start of a spot. Ian has even more than he did a few hours ago, and some of them are bothering him now. I'm a little hesitant about the abx for him, I need to research impetigo more and also research the side effects of abx for a viral infection...if it's not impetigo.

Off to google...

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#5 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 09:04 PM
 
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Many young adults are misdiagnosed with 'atypical chronic bronchitis' when they really have pertussis.

My DS and my niece both had measles but were too young for the vaccine; the young doctor who first saw them with their rashes said that it was a "viral infection manifested by a fever and skin rash". Isn't that what measles is?

The older, more experienced doctor dxd them with measles.

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#6 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I put a few pictures on my blog. They aren't very good pictures, I'll try again tonight to get some better ones.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#7 of 36 Old 06-24-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post
Another thing is that with many diseases public health has become more reliant on lab confirmation so it's possible that things were overdiagnosed previously.

.
What do you think about the prevaccine pertussis deaths stats? Wouldn't a lot of them have probably really been human metapneumovirus (and others)?
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#8 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 12:30 AM
 
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double post

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#9 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 12:31 AM
 
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Those look like the spots my older kids had.I took them in and was told it was just thier eczema given hydrocortisone and that they could go back to school.The spots kept coming so I kept them home and took them for a second exam where they took me seriously.My oldest had the vaccine so of course he can't get the pox. He was the one who took the longest to recover. They are telling some parents here that it just a rash thats going around.

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#10 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 12:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Many young adults are misdiagnosed with 'atypical chronic bronchitis' when they really have pertussis.

My DS and my niece both had measles but were too young for the vaccine; the young doctor who first saw them with their rashes said that it was a "viral infection manifested by a fever and skin rash". Isn't that what measles is?

The older, more experienced doctor dxd them with measles.
Not just adults with pertussis either - I actually just worked with a 4 month old baby that was initially dx as bronchitis until the PCR came back. I also just closed a case today that the doc initially diagnosed as measles but it was ruled out when labs were drawn. So it does go both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay
What do you think about the prevaccine pertussis deaths stats? Wouldn't a lot of them have probably really been human metapneumovirus (and others)?
I think they could have been a lot of things back then. Even something like mycoplasma. And I think a good chunk of mumps cases were incorrectly diagnosed back then too.
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#11 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 03:10 AM
 
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Those pics look like the early stages of chickenpox. The elongated oval shape of one of them looks very much like my daughter's first chickenpox spots.
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#12 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Those look like the spots my older kids had.I took them in and was told it was just thier eczema given hydrocortisone and that they could go back to school.The spots kept coming so I kept them home and took them for a second exam where they took me seriously.My oldest had the vaccine so of course he can't get the pox. He was the one who took the longest to recover. They are telling some parents here that it just a rash thats going around.
Just a rash that's going around? That's crazy!!! Sure, lots of rashes go around, but a blistery one that gets scabby and crusty?? At least our dr was kind enough to admit that it's harder to dx CP now that the vaccine is being widespread.

Grr.

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#13 of 36 Old 06-25-2008, 06:08 PM
 
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I clearly remember what my spots looked like when I had chicken pox as a kid and I'd say those look like CP to me. I remember them getting hard and crusty and itchy. When picked they scar the skin easily.

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#14 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 08:04 AM
 
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If it helps to put your mind at ease, I took anti-virals for chicken-pox when I came down with it in my 2nd trimester. It did help, I was over the worst of it in about 10 days, and neither DD nor I seem to have suffered any negative side-effects from it. It does look like CP to me too.

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#15 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 08:23 AM
 
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My son had measles when he was 9mths old, a very mild case, and barely even noticed by him. My friends twins got an identical rash to my sons, when they were 19mths old (after their MMR at 12mths), and the dr diagnosed "non-specific viral rash", because he didnt suspect measles due to them having had the vaxx at 12mths. She then went and saw another dr for an unrelated reason, who saw the twins and diagnosed measles, including a blood test. He told her that many dr's dont diagnose measles because they have also been brainwashed by the propoganda of "once vaxxed, always immune"
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#16 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 09:43 AM
 
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Its hard to tell by the pics - it doesnt look like it to me though. Heres what my daughters belly looked like on day one: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...3/DSC_0098.jpg

Does he have any on his head? I've heard that one of the tell-tale signs is having atleast one pox on the scalp.

Any new pics?
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#17 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 12:13 PM
 
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Measles is often misdiagnosed, and in some parts of the world it is over-diagnosed by quite a bit (hence the "amazing success" of the measles vaccine in Africa), so I don't think that example is equivalent. You need a blood test. I don't know if there is a blood test that confirms chicken pox - anyone?

Just throwing that out there, because I am just learning about it.
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#18 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 01:11 PM
 
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It looks pretty pox-y to me, and the fact that he has them on his head is more evidence in favor of CP.

Best wishes to your itchy ones!

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

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#19 of 36 Old 06-26-2008, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I put new pictures on my blog. I just don't know what's going on. Ian has been misbehaving a lot, kind of whiney and sensitive, but doesn't appear "sick". Neither does Connor. Both are eating well, playing well, sleeping well, etc. (of course now that I typed that, all hell will break loose tonight!)

I'm confused and not sure if I should be worried. I have to call the dr tomorrow with an update on both boys, and I have no idea what to tell him. I don't want to pay another copay to take them both in jsut so the dr can be confused with me, you know?

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#20 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 01:57 AM
 
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Drs often lie because the alternative would be to say that a person has mumps or measles and the vaccine simply does not work.
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#21 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 02:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
Its hard to tell by the pics - it doesnt look like it to me though. Heres what my daughters belly looked like on day one: http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...3/DSC_0098.jpg

Does he have any on his head? I've heard that one of the tell-tale signs is having atleast one pox on the scalp.

Any new pics?
:

I had CP at 17 - then my sister 3 weeks later, then our cousin, etc.- and clearly remember being absolutely covered in them!
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#22 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 03:22 AM
 
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I had the chicken pox as an adult. The initial photos look very similar to what I had. The lessions that are red around them might be swollen due to clothes rubbing on them. BTW, I also had a reaction to the anti-viral medication (Zovirax) that I took for CP that resulted in a red rash all over my body. Could this be what is happening to your little one? My full body rash started in my groin and armpits and then spread all over my body. If you think this might be the case talk to your doctor ASAP. I don't want to alarm you, but my full body rash was diagnosed as scalded skin syndrome, a form of toxic shock. I don't know if it was the correct diagnosis, because I've gotten it after taking antibiotics too, but since your little guy has a compromised immune system, I think it is worth mentioning to your doctor.

Hope your little ones are feeling better soon!

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#23 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Alright, another update

I just saw Ian's spots for the first time today (he was asleep when I left for work at 5:45am) What looked like hives in his groin yesterday have finally turned into blisters and some have already crusted/scabbed. The spots are looking similar to what was/is on his head/shoulders/back. And he has new spots today that he didn't have yesterday (four in one armpit, two new ones on his stomach) So I guess it's all the same rash after all, just that his groin was warmer, moister, and was being rubbed by his underwear, so it presented differently. So I'm buying into the chicken pox theory for him now. I will continue him on the Augmentin on the off chance that some of his spots are impetigo (or some other infection...some of them look pretty nasty, especially on his scalp)

I haven't seen Connor yet, he was down for a nap when I got home. The dr told me that since he's pretty young, and breastmilk still comprises a majority of his diet (and I had a *severe* case of CP) then he might not get many spots, even with his immune deficiency (once again, thank god I breastfeed!!!!!! I've said it before, but I honestly think that breastmilk is the only thing that saved his life as a newborn/infant. At the very least he would have been seriously ill)

Connor's heat-rash-like rash came on a whole two weeks before a fever, and then another whole week before the spots on his butt appeared, so it's definitely not a medication reaction. He is on anti-virals now as a precaution in case he has been exposed to chicken pox. I'm going to continue the full course because I'm convinced now that Ian has cp.

Whew!! Not all questions definitively answered, but a better idea at least!

Thanks, everybody, for your help!!!!

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#24 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 05:35 PM
 
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I'm glad it seems like you've got an answer, but what a bummer that this came to _your_ household! Plenty of folks with kids with no health issues would love CP and can't get it, and your family, with a really good reason NOT to want it, ends up with it. I hope it all resolves uneventfully.
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#25 of 36 Old 06-27-2008, 09:41 PM
 
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BTW- there are some nice dermatology pics for comparison here:
http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin/md/chickenpox.html
http://dermatlas.med.jhmi.edu/derm/
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#26 of 36 Old 07-02-2008, 05:06 PM
 
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I think my dd is at the beginning stages of CP as she was exposed about 17 days ago. Her dots do not look anything like the ones posted here. Her's are very small and look like pimples, but some are clustered together. Do they start off real small and then open/weep/crust over? She has more today than she had a few days ago, but they seem real slow to come out too. Low grade temp, not wanting to eat, otherwise acting normal.
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#27 of 36 Old 07-02-2008, 07:12 PM
 
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Amnesiac, I am guessing the images in the first link are the rather extreme cases? Bullous (or however that's spelled) chickenpox looks particularly bad. Those images don't seem like the standard childhood diseases everyone would want their child to get.
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#28 of 36 Old 07-02-2008, 08:51 PM
 
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Not just adults with pertussis either - I actually just worked with a 4 month old baby that was initially dx as bronchitis until the PCR came back. .
WAs this child fully vaxed?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#29 of 36 Old 07-02-2008, 09:04 PM
 
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Some of them are, yes. Keep in mind that some of those are in high risk patients (like elderly or otherwise immune compromised) and some of them are just to demonstrate potential (relatively rare) complications like what secondary infection looks like or to show variations like lesions on mucous membranes etc. That site is IAC so it's goal is to encourage vaccination. But it's still of value to be able to see images of variations & complications.
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#30 of 36 Old 07-02-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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NO. I asked if the four month old that you mentioned in post #10 who was originally dx with bronchitis until the PCR came back was fully vaccinated.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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