Anyone care to discuss herd immunity? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
AMum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So, I got the "well you have the luxery of not vaxing b/c everyone else does" guilt trip the other day. So, talk to me about this, share your responses when people bring this up.

Thanks,

Ashlea
AMum is offline  
#2 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 11:01 AM
 
Ophelia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MinneSNOWta
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One of the main things is that some vaccines don't prevent transmission, so 'herd immunity' is moot for those. People who don't research this stuff think that ALL vaccines contribute to herd immunity. Ones I can think of that don't:

DTaP (not sure about diptheria part but think that is same)
Polio
?

I like this for explaining herd immunity:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=149

DS 2006 nocirc.gif DiaperFreeBaby angel1.gif March 2010, DD 2011

Ophelia is offline  
#3 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 11:31 AM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


First- as mentioned, not all vaxs can create herd immunity.

Second- The ones that do, I really wish they didn't. MMR seems to work quite well. This has skewed what used to be childhood diseases into adulthood and created all sorts of problems.

Personally, I think our society would be healthier overall without mass vaccination.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
#4 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 03:09 PM
 
wunderbubble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
none of my decisions were based on the theory of herd immunity

anyone who does do research on vaccines ....does not base thier decision on herd immunity

doctors like to tell thier patients that the 'bad or non vax' mothers don't vax because of herd immunity because it's an easy way to end the conversation without giving any real info and make non vaxers look bad, but it is not the truth...if the doctors truely believe that that is the reason people aren't vaxing then they are too stupid to have a medical license as far as i'm concerned.
wunderbubble is offline  
#5 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 04:42 PM
 
Scattershoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMum View Post
So, I got the "well you have the luxery of not vaxing b/c everyone else does" guilt trip the other day. So, talk to me about this, share your responses when people bring this up.

Thanks,

Ashlea
I think it is important to note that this herd immunity/you are sucking off the good parents approach to getting people to vaccinate is the most recent attempt by a movement that is dying to stay afloat. Since so many people trusted the "experts" and their children ended up severely damaged, the movement is in trouble. People don't just jump when they say "jump" any more. Now the tactic is guilt. When people resort to guilt, I see that as pretty pathetic.

If someone mentioned herd immunity to me I'd tell them this:

1. A number of vaccines don't prevent transmission. I like what a previous poster said, and I'd ask them if they knew which ones. This is just to show them that they really don't know anything, and they shouldn't be challenging my decisions for my own children.

2. This is most important for me. The childhood diseases such as chicken pox, measles, mumps and rubella are NORMAL. They are developmental stages for the immune system. This is where I'd bring up chicken pox. Most people still recall how harmless it was when they had it. Of course a generation or two from now it will somehow be remembered as a horrific disease that laid waste to children.

3. A number of the other vaccines are just silly. It's just stuff they came up with and then put out a p.r. campaign to get parents to be afraid. Of course someone might say, "so you think polio is silly?" No actually I don't, but I do know several people who had polio, which they called something else, who had all received their polio shots.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
Scattershoot is offline  
#6 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:31 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
The herd theory is actually a very old theory. Someone tried to lay that guilt trip on me over thirty years ago. Obviously I did not buy it.

I am surprised that this canard is still being floated around by the pro-vax community. Can't they come up with something new?

For the record, my youngest unvaxed child did get measles, so much for the herd theory. He probably got it from a recently vaxed child who was shedding. I, unvaxed, got whooping cough from all of my vaxed classmates at age six and I passed it on to my unvaxed five year old sister.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#7 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:37 PM
 
Attached Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd say "Even if I lived prior to herd immunity (because I prob won't convince them it doesn't exist) I'd still choose to not vaccinate. With modern medicine, these diseases are not dangerous. By the 1950's pretty much noone was dying of things like measles, mumps and rubella. And I mean chicken pox... PULEEZ... it was a right of passage when we were kids. Noone was afraid we were going to DIE from it. And for my mom, it was the same with things like measles. It was simply a minor inconvenience and childhood right of passage and getting it actually strengthened the immune system. I'd far rather have my child go thru that than to inject them with formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum and bits of diseases derived from aborted fetal tissue!"

That's about what I'd say.
Attached Mama is offline  
#8 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
AMum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks all, I actually got this gem from a friend who created and followed her own selective and delayed vax schedule. I was really caught off guard. It seemed to me that her delivery was somewhat wry and smug. Her kids have pretty bad allergy/asthma issues. She did as a child as well. Could be hereditary, could be vax related.
AMum is offline  
#9 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:39 PM
 
Attached Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
The herd theory is actually a very old theory. Someone tried to lay that guilt trip on me over thirty years ago. Obviously I did not buy it.

I am surprised that this canard is still being floated around by the pro-vax community. Can't they come up with something new?

For the record, my youngest unvaxed child did get measles, so much for the herd theory. He probably got it from a recently vaxed child who was shedding. I, unvaxed, got whooping cough from all of my vaxed classmates at age six and I passed it on to my unvaxed five year old sister.
Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it. Which brings up another point. I'd also mention how most everyon I know of who has gotten chicken pox and whooping cough were already vaccinated against it. So not only do vax not create herd immunity, they often don't even create individual immunity.
Attached Mama is offline  
#10 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
AMum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like that AttachedMama. I knew there was a reason "herd immunity" was bogus, but it has been so long since I'd done research on vaccines I'd forgotten.

My kids had a well visit today with our family doctor and she recommended I read http://www.amazon.com/Saying-Vaccine...8246416&sr=1-1

Why would that book be $55?!?! I hope the library has it.
AMum is offline  
#11 of 13 Old 08-08-2008, 11:44 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attached Mama View Post
Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it..
It was 1960-1. I also had a classmate with a brace on her leg from a bout with polio. I did not get that disease.

I also had a teacher whose husband had polio during WWII; he had a slight limp from it.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#12 of 13 Old 08-09-2008, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
AMum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attached Mama View Post
Wow - you are the first person I've heard of who has gotten whooping cough and was not vax for it. Which brings up another point. I'd also mention how most everyon I know of who has gotten chicken pox and whooping cough were already vaccinated against it. So not only do vax not create herd immunity, they often don't even create individual immunity.
Huh, all three of my non-vax kids had whooping cough when my youngest was a newborn, three years ago.
AMum is offline  
#13 of 13 Old 08-09-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Attached Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, I'm sure people get it when not vax. Just that I've found it rather ironic that up until now the only people I knew of who had gotten it were vaccinated against it.
Attached Mama is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off