Do you thinks kids might be traumatized by getting shots? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 02:59 AM
 
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Quote ...I have a SEVERE needle phobia, and yes, shots can traumatize kids. Doctors will NOT take this seriously, even now that I am grown up. I can't even drive past a hospital without feeling serious amounts of anxiety. Yes, my phobia is directly related to receiving shots as a child.

Me tooo... and I didn't get near the amount they give today.... I didn't feel good about them as a child, and I don't feel good about them now. Nothing has changed, and not just because they were traumatic.
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#32 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 10:42 AM
 
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My terror of needles does play into my decision not to vaccinate my children... Because the fear is so strong I can't separate it out of the equation. I wish it didn't factor into my decision, but it does.
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#33 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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I have been very afraid of needles since I was little. I had a surgery when I was 9 and the doctor tried to put a needle in my hand for the IV and I jumped up on the bed and said there was no way he would be doing that. That the only way he could do that is after I was asleep (put out for surgery.)

The first time I decided I would try to be brave was for a tetanus shot when I was 11 and I took it without crying or whining and after I got the shot I stood up and immediately passed out and hit my head against a door and scraped my chin on the carpet. And after that my arm hurt very bad where I got the shot for a few days and I could not sleep. It was horrible.

When I was pregnant with my son it sucked because I did the usual prenatal stuff at the clinic as I did not know there was any other choice. They took my blood and stuff and I managed to get through that but it sucked.

It seemed like I was in preterm labor at 34 weeks so they tried to put an IV in me for fluids and they ended up poking holes all over my hands and wrists. It was so painful too! I wanted to take the needles and poke them with it to see how they liked it.

So, yeah. I think vaccinations and other things that require needles are horrifying and possibly traumatizing. I think needles should only be used in the most extreme cases, not for everything. And personally I don't think vaccines are necessary.

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#34 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 11:47 AM
 
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oh ya. I'm definitely traumatized by the shots and other medical procedures I was forced to get. I mean really...ANY time a person is held down, screaming and crying, while ANYthing is done to them against their will, especially somethign painful..how in the heck is that NOT traumatizing? Makes me ill even to discuss this, even though i'm sitting in my own home as an adult woman.
I remember after i understood what they were going to do, I would run away and try to escape every time. One time, i couldn't have been much more than 5, I had a really serious case of poison ivy and it got to the point that the doctor said I woudl need to have a steroid shot(we're HORRIBLY allergic to PI in my family). i heard the word shot and went ballistic...I remember pushing my mom so hard she fell against the wall and according to her, she lost her breath, i ran down the office hallway, decked a nurse, and out into the large medical complex. I ran and ran until I found a little decorative tree thing and hid behind it, alone and crying, scared out of my mind.

finally my dad came and found me. He tried to be so nice, but basicall yI was carried back and had to have the shot.
I also have memories of a surgery i had to have wqhen i was like 3 or 4..being held down, and NOONE could get a fricken IV in me...nurse after nurse tried and tried until I was a pincushion, I was tied down to a gurney, screaming and crying, being stabbed repeatedly over and over and over....

how could anyone think things like that are NOT traumatic?

I think the difference is how "important" or "necesary" you believe the tradeoff to be. It makes me ill that so many parents not only believe vaccines are necesary, but that they are SO necesary, they are worth the trauma that goes into them. It boggles my mind.

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#35 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 11:51 AM
 
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Even the very neccesary x-ray was horrific, he was screaming in that scared scream I have never heard of him, me forcing him to drink that stuff while they try to get a picture- yes, even necessary treatment can be severely traumatizing and I would not minimize that just because it was a better cause to me than a vaccine.
Everyone knows their child best. I was speaking about my own, not yours. I hope you're not implying that I minimize what my child has gone through by refusing to label her as "traumatized". That doesn't mean what she's been through is any less painful, believe me, I was there for two surgeries with long recoveries, two severe dehydrations with many repeat IVs, MRIs, Xrays, etc. I don't minimize any of it but as her mother, I can see whether she is traumatized or not and in my opinion, she's not. I see no lasting effects, she's fine at the dr's offices, barely flinches when they draw blood, etc. That's not to say anything about anyone else, just that I don't think I could say "ALL children are traumatized by vaccines". I know some of them are. I wasn't, but my sister was like the ones described above, running around the office, running outside and hiding. Of course now she's comfortable enough with needles that she has many tattoos and piercings. What was traumatic at the time didn't result in a traumatized person, and IMO, there's a difference. That's all.

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#36 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 12:56 PM
 
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I know what you mean, Bri.

I just think that sometimes non-vaxers are misunderstood-because people act as if non-vaxers only qualifies "bad and evil vaxes" as traumatizing and everything else as fine and dandy. All I wanted to say is that even medical procedures that I deem necessary are traumatizing, that's all.

I completely agree that everyone knows their child best- I just took issue with "and what about other medical procedures?", that's all.

And boy, do I dream of medicine as seen in Star Trek-healing a broken arm in a matter of minutes, analyzing somebody's blood without any pain-our medicine and treatment is still pretty much "butcher style".
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#37 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HeatherRD View Post
I can't stand the thought of putting my child through that. But then again, what if they need blood drawn at some point? They are going to have to face a needle sometime, right?

Opinions?
Yes. We don't vaccinate, but we have a severely food allergic child. She has had two blood draws and also skin-prick allergy testing (one time). The blood draws will be at least yearly until she is 5 or 6. The first blood draw was fairly traumatic for her, but the second much less so.

I do think the approach both the parents and the medical professionals take to the draw can be helpful. My ped, for example, recommended getting a toy doctor's kit for dd and acting out/letting her act out all the things that will/do happen to demystify them and let her work out her feelings. She NEVER holds children down to give shots and she always does pretend practice runs on the parents or a stuffed animal first, so that the child knows what to expect. We are very open with dd about what is going to happen at the blood draw, and this includes explaining the reasons for the context of her allergies. We bring favorite toys and a food treat along with us, and she eats the treat while the draw is going on.

I don't think needles HAVE to be traumatic, but I do think they can be, particularly if the emotional experience for the child is dismissed or glossed over (and again, this depends on the child--I was never especially scared of needles as a kid, for whatever reason, and I'm still not--when I get a blood draw, I much prefer watching everything they're doing).
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#38 of 57 Old 09-27-2008, 08:33 PM
 
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Do you thinks kids might be traumatized by getting shots?
Does a tick suck blood off a dog's behind?

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#39 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 01:36 AM
 
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Wow. I'm so sorry.

If shots can indeed be traumatizing, is this reason enough not to vax, regardless of any other reasons?

I can't stand the thought of putting my child through that. But then again, what if they need blood drawn at some point? They are going to have to face a needle sometime, right?

Opinions?
My DD doesn't get shots, but did have to get blood drawn at one point. She was always soooo wonderful with the dr & nurses prior to getting blood drawn. It was really a pleasure to bring her to the doc! Then, once we had to hold her down for the blood draw, and they were unsuccessful in BOTH ARMS, and then we had to go to a lab for 2 more unsuccessful attempts...she was definitely traumatized. It was horrible!!!!

She was so scared of the doc's office after that, but did manage to get over it after 3 trips or so. I swore I would never put her through that again! Then, wouldn't you know, she had another borderline lead result and hemoglobin with a heelstick, and the doc wanted a draw.

Soooooo... I requested the EMLA cream. ::: It went beautifully! DD was a little angel and didn't feel a thing! :: I can't recommend it highly enough!

All this to say: I think they can get over a once or twice trauma (although I don't doubt there are some small lingering effects). But if it were to happen over and over again at every visit to the ped, in such a short time span, I can definitely see that there could be some issues over it.

OTOH, shots aren't as bad as a blood draw, are they? They are definitely quicker, right (depending on the situation, I guess)?

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#40 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 03:01 AM
 
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OTOH, shots aren't as bad as a blood draw, are they? They are definitely quicker, right (depending on the situation, I guess)?
Some shots hurt way worse.
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#41 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 09:16 AM
 
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Some shots hurt way worse.
Yup, I will have blood drawn before I will get another shot. I can have blood drawn no problem, but shots hurt for DAYS, sometimes longer.
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#42 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 11:33 AM
 
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A blood draw is generally way better, IMO, and according to everyone I've spoken with about it with.

#1-With a blood draw, you're not going in very deep. With shots, you're either going into the deep layers of the skin or you're going into the muscle. There's also the potential to hit a bone if the wrong length needle is used and/or the medical assistant or nurse is unskilled or just messes up.

#2 With a bood draw, a small amount of blood is being removed, which in and of itself does not hurt. With an injection, liquid (sometimes viscous and/or caustic) is being forced into your cells and tissues.

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#43 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 11:40 AM
 
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omg I would rather have blood drawn every day for a month than get a shot. You can take it out but don't put anything in. <shudder>

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#44 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 04:23 PM
 
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I'm so glad the OP brought up this topic because it's one that I've wondered about for a long time. I, like so many of you, was held down as a child for shots. My mother actually had to bring my grandfather to the health dept. to hold me down when I went to get my boosters for kindergarten. I remember this experience vividly and when I discuss it, it brings tears to my eyes. Oh the helplessness and yes, I believe, trauma.

I also think that this is the main cause of my life long needle phobia and decision to give birth at home and avoid vaccinations (and circumcision) for my children. I don't mention this when people ask me about why we don't vaccinate, but I think I'll start including it in my reasons.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone!

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#45 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 04:30 PM
 
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I would be careful to include "needles hurt" in any "why I don't vaccinate" soapbox speech of mine...because it won't "reach" the recipient the way I mean it and will turn out to be a "not only they want to keep their special child safe, but also keep them away from needles-so that we, the good parents can hurt our children by doing the right thing yaddayaddayadda".

I wouldn't give that kind of ammunition, because I know how stuff gets turned around against you, it's the "yeah, because we vaccinate and poke our children with needles, you can keep your's painfree and pure, you parasite". I can just hear it, unfortunately.
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#46 of 57 Old 09-29-2008, 06:05 PM
 
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I think it can be traumatic and create trust issues, for sure.

My dd, who has never had a shot, loves to go to the doctor, LoL. They have hurt her before though, blood draws on a couple of ccoasions, a procedure that was painful, and looking in her infected ears a couple of times was owie. Mama cried. I never like to see her hurting.
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#47 of 57 Old 09-30-2008, 04:28 AM
 
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The way I look at it is, the AAP and the CDC don't consider the the trauma of shots as being worthy of being brought into the equation, but I, as the mother, absolutely must.

They consider all that 100% irrelevant, but I do not, and will not.

It's not "the one and only" deciding factor for me, but I'm not ashamed of factoring it into my decisions. Nobody else besides us is looking out for our babies here. The AAP/CDC think it's fine if your baby gets 7 shots in a day. We are completely on our
own here.

Let me say it again:
We are totally on our own here. Our pedis and the CDC could hardly care less about the pain and trauma of shots. They would give our kids 10 shots a day, every day, all year, if it would, in theory, have a good predicted outcome. The trauma of shots never has and never will matter to them.
The CDC/AAP doesn't believe kids can be traumatized by shots.
So if you believe differently, you're on your own.
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#48 of 57 Old 09-30-2008, 08:23 AM
 
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That's a good point, MK. It's easy to let our intuition about health get run over by the allopathic know-it-all aproach: that it must be quantifiable to be meaningful.

Pain is a very real part of the body's biochemical function, with ramifications outside of its specific location.
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#49 of 57 Old 09-30-2008, 11:43 PM
 
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Well, do keep in mind that all the spiffy combination shots that they are coming up with are supposedly with the intention of reducing the number of shots per visit...Not that they came up with this brilliant idea themselves. Obviously it stems from parents' concerns at the number of shots, and pharma's concerns at not being able to continuously inflate the number of vaxes given if they can't find a way to alleviate the parents' concerns at the number of shots.

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#50 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 10:03 AM
 
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one other factor in the combo shots: patents/money

older versions of shots are not money makers: look at the single measles and the single rubella and the single mumps--patents have expired on all of them

the ideal for the drug companies would be new combos coming out every time the patents are about to expire on the old ones

from that point of view serotype replacement is a great blessing--Prevnar can be replaced, legitimately, with a new vaccine at an even higher price, containing several added antigens, which are now causing disease

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#51 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 10:05 AM
 
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The last time I took Jo to get a shot, the DTap, she began crying as soon as they touched the alcohol pad to her leg. Then I had to hold her still while they gave her the shot and she was hysterical. She was terrified. I got home, called my hubby and told him that the both of us had been traumatized by the situation and that I just don't think its right to hold her down against her will and do that to her. So I don't think we're getting shots anymore. It was the fourth time she had a shot, and she's been getting one at a time. I can't imagine those poor babies who gets several shots at once. I'm really beginning to think that its child abuse to forcibly hold them down and hurt them like that. I mean, what's the difference between that and torture?

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#52 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 11:06 AM
 
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I think it can be traumatizing. I don't remember it being so for me. I'm not the sort who can remember toddlerhood and younger, but I do remember getting something when I was kid age, and not being upset by it. But, then my life had a lot of pain in it, I don't think a shot came close.

I think it can be more traumatizing if the parents are rough while holding down, lie about the pain, expect no tears, demanding the kid to suck it up etc. I can imagine the whole experience makes the actual shot much worse.

I think if one decides to vaccinate, there are for sure ways to make the process easier. It doesn't have to be mom pinning the kid, nurse making light of the process and child screaming for dear life while being told to shut their mouths. Frankly acknowledging that it will hurt, is far better than pretending it's ok, it just feels like a mosquito bite. Letting the kid be upset and cry, not shaming them into silence (or attempting to). And if there is a need to hold them down, it can sure be done in a gentle and "I'm lending you my support" way than a "strap you down" way. I think also, no matter how old, talking to the child about it afterward acknowledges their feelings and help them work through the pain of the shot and the process is a much more productive way to do it.

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#53 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 11:16 AM
 
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I think they can be traumatizing if the child is told it wont hurt, is not allowed to roll play, etc. I was never traumatized about it. My parents did not lie to me and tell me it would not hurt. They told me what would happen, it would hurt, and described the feeling. They then told me I will be sore after wards, but the intense pain will stop shortly after the needle comes out. I do not fear dr.'s/nurses for that reason now. I never really found the pain from a shot to be severe, though.

We selectively/delay vax and describe everything to my kids, too. We roll play as well. They know exactly what will happen at the dr.'s office. One of my things, is I refuse to restrain my kids. I have the nurse do that. I do the comforting afterwards. We then do something fun afterwards.
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#54 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 11:30 AM
 
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absolutely.

the lying part is just as bad. "this wont hurt!" and then holding them down. ick.

i still remember when my parents said we were going to dairy queen and then took me to get my kindergarten shots

i remember being like 9 and having to go get a Hep A immuneglobulin because my dad had it. and i was arguing with my mom that i'd rather just get the virus, because my dad wasnt that sick. but they hauled me in to get it anyway, SO THEY DIDNT HAVE TO MISS WORK TO TAKE CARE OF ME.

i remember the look of betrayal in my kids eyes when i let them get shots before i knew better

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#55 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 12:08 PM
 
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I think they can be traumatizing if the child is told it wont hurt, is not allowed to roll play, etc. I was never traumatized about it. My parents did not lie to me and tell me it would not hurt. They told me what would happen, it would hurt, and described the feeling. They then told me I will be sore after wards, but the intense pain will stop shortly after the needle comes out. I do not fear dr.'s/nurses for that reason now. I never really found the pain from a shot to be severe, though.

We selectively/delay vax and describe everything to my kids, too. We roll play as well. They know exactly what will happen at the dr.'s office. One of my things, is I refuse to restrain my kids. I have the nurse do that. I do the comforting afterwards. We then do something fun afterwards.
Thanks GooeyRN! This is comforting to know someone's experienced a supportive approach and came through it ok.

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#56 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 01:53 PM
 
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I don't really remember my shots very much. I do remember getting them when I was older like six for school. I don't remember it hurting or even being held down at all. I got it done on my own as my Mom had my sister with us and was holding her for her shots.

What I do remember is getting blood taken and fainting when I was 16 and I ended up on the floor. Ever since then I hate getting blood taken. I insist they let me lay down for it and I can't watch. I had gotten blood taken before I fainted and it never bothered me, I used to love watching. I even had IV's and such before then. But since then I have a phobia of needles.

I do think one horrible experience can cause a phobia but I don't think shots themselves are a horrible experience. But it can be made into one depending on how they are performed.

The the pain from the shots have not played in any way into our vaccination decisions.

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#57 of 57 Old 10-01-2008, 07:13 PM
 
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I don't think its all in how the performance goes either.

You ask someone in the military how they feel after being shot up with the same shots your giving your babies.

I have heard many say it was a horrible experience, and they felt like crap for months.

Soooo... I honestly think that it is the fact past the needle that causes trauma. Anyone saying that a baby doesn't have the ability to think that way... well, they sure remember when they get into the office don't they!
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