When after a shot do children show signs of autism? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 20 Old 10-22-2008, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, I know I'm being incessant (spelling?) here....but when after a shot do children show signs of autism? I am seriously still stressing about all this!
Thanks:-(

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#2 of 20 Old 10-22-2008, 07:43 PM
 
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Most kids are diagnosed between ages 4 and 5.

For some kids it can be just one shot, for some kids it is the last shot after a whole bunch of them that will cause neurological damages.

I think you don't see autism right away, it is a change in the child that keeps getting worse. At least that's how have read it described several time.
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#3 of 20 Old 10-22-2008, 10:12 PM
 
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Just chiming in again- vaccines do not cause autism. They can cause brain injury that has many of the same symptoms, though.
It can be quickly, or not show up for quite a while.

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#4 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 01:37 PM
 
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...and that brain injury may be diagnosed as autism.
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#5 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I am just wondering b/c we (stupidly!) had vax's the other day and my dd2 has had diarhea (sp?) but otherwise is acting normal, and my youngest has been lathargic, and of course my mind goes to the worst possible case......and I guess I'm just worrying, if we don't do anymore vax's, are they going to be ok? Like when do these people see this 'change' in their kids after having vax's that is autism?

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#6 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 02:33 PM
 
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Just chiming in again- vaccines do not cause autism. They can cause brain injury that has many of the same symptoms, though.
It can be quickly, or not show up for quite a while.
Can you please provide sources for your statement that vaccines do not cause autism? It is my understanding that the question is far from settled and that the only people who maintain this assertion indisputably are pharmaceutical companies and their government enablers like the CDC and FDA. Would love to see more information on this.

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#7 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Some kids change very suddenly within days or weeks of vaccination. In my ds' case, he had a severe DTaP reaction and began to gradually fall behind on milestones and started developing sensory issues, which got progressively worse very quickly. He never had obvious speech issues, just odd things like speaking in the 2nd person and often changing words around to make them iliterative. Finally, 2 years after the reaction, we started putting 2 and 2 together and realized he would need to be evaluated for autism.
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#8 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 02:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
Can you please provide sources for your statement that vaccines do not cause autism? It is my understanding that the question is far from settled and that the only people who maintain this assertion indisputably are pharmaceutical companies and their government enablers like the CDC and FDA. Would love to see more information on this.
Ditto. Autism is diagnosed by a set of behaviors and characteristics, not by a root cause (or causes).
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#9 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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Some kids change very suddenly within days or weeks of vaccination. In my ds' case, he had a severe DTaP reaction and began to gradually fall behind on milestones and started developing sensory issues, which got progressively worse very quickly. He never had obvious speech issues, just odd things like speaking in the 2nd person and often changing words around to make them iliterative. Finally, 2 years after the reaction, we started putting 2 and 2 together and realized he would need to be evaluated for autism.

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#10 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by highlandmum View Post
Yeah, I am just wondering b/c we (stupidly!) had vax's the other day and my dd2 has had diarhea (sp?) but otherwise is acting normal, and my youngest has been lathargic, and of course my mind goes to the worst possible case......and I guess I'm just worrying, if we don't do anymore vax's, are they going to be ok? Like when do these people see this 'change' in their kids after having vax's that is autism?

I would keep an eye on the diarrhea - obviously the body is trying to clear something out. If your dd2 had any live vaccines at the recent visit, cp or MMR - I would give her some vit A supplements from a natural source (like cod liver oil). The measles virus depletes vit a and vit a is needed for the immune system to function properly. My son started having bouts of diarrhea after his second MMR (sometimes lasting over a month) - I was concerned, but his ped wasn't, and I really didn't think anything of it until his language and eye contact started unravelling. The recurring diarrhea was definitely the first sign that his body was having trouble clearing the viruses. Doesn't sound like its soon enough to tell with your DD - but vit a can't hurt if you are worried.
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#11 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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Most kids are diagnosed between ages 4 and 5.
While that is true, in order to be classified as autism, as the American Psychiatric Association currently defines it, the symptoms must show up before the child is 3 years old.

Typically, adverse reactions, including severe reactions or injury, will show up within the first month or two of the vaccination--with the majority happening within the first week. For some kids, the regression happens within the first few days, but I've heard of it happening as long as 2 months after the vax.

But to be fair, regressive autism typically happens by 12-24 months, regardless of whether you vax or whether you delay. It's rare for regressive autism to happen after 2 years old and not have it be related to the vaccine or other serious attack on the body (infection, etc.).

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#12 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 05:38 PM
 
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While that is true, in order to be classified as autism, as the American Psychiatric Association currently defines it, the symptoms must show up before the child is 3 years old.

This is a common misconception. One of the subsections on the DSM IV diagnosis checklist indicates symptom onset by age 3, but this criteria isn't needed for diagnosis if 6 other items (or more) are met. You can check that here http://www.autism-pdd.net/checklist.html#checklist.

My son is most definitely autistic, and he was most definitely NOT autistic by age 3.
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#13 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 07:41 PM
 
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Typically, adverse reactions, including severe reactions or injury, will show up within the first month or two of the vaccination--with the majority happening within the first week. For some kids, the regression happens within the first few days, but I've heard of it happening as long as 2 months after the vax.
That also depends on the age of the child; mild brain damage from a vaccine reaction wouldn't be as noticable in an infant as it would be in a toddler.
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#14 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 13Sandals View Post
This is a common misconception. One of the subsections on the DSM IV diagnosis checklist indicates symptom onset by age 3, but this criteria isn't needed for diagnosis if 6 other items (or more) are met. You can check that here http://www.autism-pdd.net/checklist.html#checklist.

My son is most definitely autistic, and he was most definitely NOT autistic by age 3.
He regressed at what age?
My suggestion is to look into metabolic disorders or another medical reason for your son's regression. It is very unusual for autism to appear after age 3 and I would say that when it does it is always something else.
My son regressed between 18 and 24 months. Looking back he didn't point until 15 months and didn't always respond to his name--he had signs as a baby. But he didn't "look" autistic to anyone untrained until after age two. It was then that he lost pretend play and began to do repititive things and etc. He didn't have vaccines but he does have a metabolic disorder (mitochondrial) and during that time frame was showing increasing signs of that disorder. He regained all or most of his lost skills when we started treatment for his metabolic disorder at age 3.5 to 4.

Regression is a red flag for metabolic disorders. That includes those who regress with vaccines as well as those who regress without them. Vaccines (or fever or illness or fasting or a host of things) can trigger a metabolic crisis which does damage and the child loses skills. Sometimes they regain them over time and sometimes they don't.

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#15 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 08:38 PM
 
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The most common reaction reported to us in our practice is that parents start to notice the decline around 2-3 weeks after the shot. The decline most often is a gradual slide into autism.

Occasionally we get parents who within hours of the vax report an adverse reaction and those children usually start regressing almost immediately. They are also they hardest to bring back.

(Above comments based on parents observations of over 2800 children with autism as reported to the doctor)
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#16 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 13Sandals View Post
This is a common misconception. One of the subsections on the DSM IV diagnosis checklist indicates symptom onset by age 3, but this criteria isn't needed for diagnosis if 6 other items (or more) are met. You can check that here http://www.autism-pdd.net/checklist.html#checklist.

My son is most definitely autistic, and he was most definitely NOT autistic by age 3.
LOL...ok, I am trained in psychological diagnostics (including several doctoral-level courses), have worked in the autism field since 2002, and have an autistic child. The criteria for diagnosis autism requires some developmental issues occuring before age 3. It's a pervasive developmental disorder and as such, part of the early development must have been affected.

In addition, in order to have autism diagnosed, critera categories A, B, AND C must have been met--not just the 6 from category A. So yes, the onset of social difficulties MUST have been started prior to age 3 (not full blown autism, and not the diagnosis...but there must have been some social delays, irregularities, or quirks before age 3).

You can't just diagnose autism if only the first 6 criteria are met. In addition, Autistic Disorder (Autism) and Autism Spectrum Disorders are 2 different things--PDD-NOS does not have to meet A, B, and C, but Autistic Disorder does.

Perhaps, that might change in the future--diagnostic procedures always do. But, in the DSM-IV-TR, the current diagnostic standard in the US, irregularities must have occured prior to age 3 for a true autistic disorder diagnosis. Of course, there are people getting autism diagnoses who don't truly meet criteria...right or wrong, it happens. But a true diagnosis must meet current diagnostic standards. In 2011, the DSM-V is coming out, and it might be completely different then.

ETA: If you're at all curious about the actual DSM-IV-TR statements (which are not all on that site you linked), I can pull out my DSM and type them out. It's about 6 pages long though, and goes through the entire algorhthm for diagnosis. It's complicated, and long. LOL!)

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#17 of 20 Old 10-23-2008, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, so my dd will be 3 in feb....she had a dtap 4wks ago and another dtap two days ago. AND two days ago she had some (1/2-3/4) of an mmr (she moved her leg and it spilled out) She does have some bowel issues (allergies) that we are working through, but she has had a LOT of diarhea since the vax's two days ago.
Should I worry?

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#18 of 20 Old 10-24-2008, 12:02 AM
 
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Hi -

I've recently read "Healing the new childhood epidemics" by K. Bock. In the appendix at the end of the book it offers some advice for supporting your child's system before & after vaxing. It says many of the guidelines recommended in this book come from "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Children's vaccinations" (so it sounds like that might be another book for you to get your hands on asap if you are looking for post vax supportive measures & info).

I'm not listing everything in that chapter, but he does mention if your child is old enough to take supplements, give vitamen C, A, zinc & something called "transfer factor" - he recommends starting these things before vax & continueing for 1-2 weeks afterwards. So that may be something to look into. Dosages are not listed, so you would need to research that. He recommends cod liver oil as the source of the vitamen A.

He also recommends breastfeeding if you still nurse, a very healthy diet. If you think there is an adverse reaction contact your ped, be proactive to help them overcome their symptoms thru extra rest, fluids, healthy diet, supplements.

HTH! I'm no expert on any of this, just happened to have the book in front of me & thought it might give you some steps to take to help your daughter if it's needed.
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#19 of 20 Old 10-24-2008, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you! That does help...I've been giving her a multi as well as some cod liver oil, and lots of orange juice (in fact, the oil and OJ are mixed-lol) I wish I knew what 'transfer factor' was.......

me, dd1, dd2, ds, and #4 due March 1. dbf has 2 of his own, so it will be an adventure!

i like making things. 

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#20 of 20 Old 10-24-2008, 10:15 AM
 
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Thank you! That does help...I've been giving her a multi as well as some cod liver oil, and lots of orange juice (in fact, the oil and OJ are mixed-lol) I wish I knew what 'transfer factor' was.......
Transfer factor is distilled from colostrum and is intended to help with establishing proper immune function. It's expensive.

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She does have some bowel issues (allergies) that we are working through, but she has had a LOT of diarhea since the vax's two days ago.
Should I worry?
The fact that you've got pre-existing allergies and now you're seeing a deterioration in gut function is a red flag to me. Not necessarily ASD, we all seem to manifest toxin and gut issues differently (my kids manifest them quite differently from each other) but I'd be concerned, and step up the healing measures you're working on for the gut issues. Not sure how much you hang out in Allergies, they have a good approach to healing the gut and allergies.

Bock's book is really good, it's out in paperback now.
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