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#1 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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DS2 has his first ever trip to the doctor (yay homebirth!) tomorrow for his 2 month appointment (though he is almost 11 weeks old.)

DS1, now 26 months, is what I will call "blindly vaccinated." DH is a physician with a MPH, and when it became apparent that he would vehemently disagree with not vax'ing or perhaps even delaying, I conceded. And then knew that I could not both concede and research, and so did not research. Is there any penance big enough to mitigate the guilt even just a little bit? Reading through posts here tonight makes me want to throw up. Literally, really, just throw up. What did I do to my baby for the sake of preserving peaceful dinner table conversation with my spouse? Where are my mama bear instincts?

DS1 has multiple food allergies which appeared within a month of his 2 month appointment. He has asthma. He has chronic eczema which I am about to start ANOTHER elimination diet to solve.

Well, I found my mama bear instincts. I am not conceding to anyone this time around, but neither have I exactly embraced the idea of research vaccines. Sure, with two kids it's hard to find the time. Sure, there is an overwhelming amount of info. But I think what has really prevented me from coming into this forum (this is my first time in the vaccines forum, in spite of being a member since 2006) is the guilt I feel for fully vaccinating Ovi.

That and my discomfort at having to be the one to figure out what to do about vaccines in our family while I am the one getting a PHILOSOPHY doctorate, not the one with a medical degree FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

I very casually brought up vaccines with DH about a month ago saying that we needed to figure out which, if any, vaccines Lio would be getting. He threw up his hands and said that I could be the one to deal with it.

And here I am, at the 0 hour, "dealing with it." Sigh.

The short answer, though, is that my baby will not receive a single shot tomorrow. Period. 30 minutes here has told me that much.

But now I need to figure out how to begin my research and how to present my findings to DH before our next WBV.

So this is my introduction, and I hope to find some friends and mentors here as I enter this crazy, anxiety-producing maze.

Distraction is not the same thing as play.
Be part of the diaper free revolution. 

DS1, 6 years.  DS2, 4 years.  DS3, brand new!  (April 2012)
 

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#2 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 04:44 AM
 
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Sherry Tenpenny DO's videos are great. What the CDC Documents and Science Reveal. And her book Saying No To Vaccines is expensive but also VERY good, comes with a DVD.

Your hubby needs to be on board with this. BUT I would not hesitate to lie.

In the meantime, you could just go to the Ped, and do NOT argue, just say "OK, can you please write down the type (DtaP, etc.) and brand (Wyeth, Glaxo, Novartis, etc) and I will research them further" type of talk. Get the actual package inserts (NOT the useless Parent Info sheets from the CDC...) and also do your own research on the brands and the ingredients.

Sometimes the peds can make the "choice" real easy for dads, too, unwittingly, by choosing vaxes which are even more dangerous than the "safer" ones.

Liora, Frum Jew In Beijing, Mom of Three (one "Almost Autistic" healed in 3 years with biomed and one amazing girl with Down syndrome using Targeted Nutritional Intervention (TNI)
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#3 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 11:54 AM
 
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I can totally understand where you are coming from. Because I was not assertive enough, DS got his 2, 4, 6, 9 and 12mo shots because DH bullied me into it. I live with the guilt and also have not been able to forgive him for it yet. I begged him to hold off until I could research more.

As you know, it's better not to get all your info from one source but here are two great sources I recommend:

Book - Vaccinations by Aviva Jill Romm
http://www.insidevaccines.com

There ARE other doctors out there who are wary of vaccines, the two that come to mind are Dr. Jay Gordon (he has a great middle-of-the-road DVD and is a well-respected ped) and the doc at HomeFirst in Chicago who does not vax his patients: http://www.homefirst.com/ Maybe your husband will listen to them. Also Dr. Sears has a vaccine book. I have not read it yet but heard there are some questionable stats in there. However he is very concerned about the aluminum in shots.

DS 2006 nocirc.gif DiaperFreeBaby angel1.gif March 2010, DD 2011

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#4 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 12:37 PM
 
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Welcome...glad you found your way here and good for you!
I was fortunate enough to have done 3 years of exhaustive research before I even became pregant with my first baby. I told my husband basically that DS would be vaxed "over my dead, cold, lifeless body".....luckily my husband conceded. I have presented him with my research and he has looked at a tiny bit of it, but really leaves it up to me. I can imagine how difficult it is being that your hubby is an MD. He was brainwashed like every other medical student. But there are plenty of MD's out there that have learned the truth and oppose vaccines or at least encourage a less agressive schedule.

Dr. Joseph Mercola http://www.mercola.com
Dr. Jane Orient (she is the executive director of the American Association of Phyicians and surgeons) www.generationrescue.org/pdf/orient_atrisk.pdf
Dr. Donald ****** http://www.donaldmiller.com/
Dr. Richard Moskowitz http://www.*********/vaccines/moskowitz.html
Dr. James Howenstine http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/howe...s03feb07.shtml
Dr. James R. Shannon (former director of the National Institute of Health) is quoted "The only safe vaccine is the one that is never used"
That is just a handful.... there are so many more

I am sorry your son has issues, but you can't beat yourself up. Many people come to the conclusion that vaccines are not safe because they have a child who has suffered because of them. You are certainly not alone.

Have your hubby read "what your doctor may not tell you about vaccines by Stephanie Cave, MD http://www.amazon.com/What-Doctor-Ab.../dp/0446677078
Also Sherry Tenpenny's book is AWESOME! as pp said.
I would also suggest looking at the following websites:

http://www.novaccine.com
http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com
http://www.vaclib.org/indexdoc.htm#legal
http://www.nmaseminars.com/AboutDrT.html
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.chetday.com/vaccinationmyths.htm
http://insidevaccines.com/
http://www.vaccinenation.net/
http://www.knowvaccines.com/
http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/flu.html
http://vaccinationnews.com/
http://www.vaccinerights.com/
http://www.vierascheibner.com/

Good luck and Im glad you found your mama bear instincts!!

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#5 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 12:47 PM
 
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Personally I'm not a book person for things like this. I don't want to know who thinks what, I want to know what the numbers say. Look for more primary sources like CDC, VAERS, vax company info (for stats and reactions) etc.

Not what they *think* Not what they "suggest" but what the data says.

For each vaccine research and find- ingredients, reactions, chance of death, efficacy, etc.

For each disease research and find- treatments (look in older parenting and nursing books), complications, numbers of cases in your area, chance of death.

When I weighed those against each other, I did not find any vaccines that were worth the risk for my kids.

-Angela
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#6 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 12:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Personally I'm not a book person for things like this. I don't want to know who thinks what, I want to know what the numbers say. Look for more primary sources like CDC, VAERS, vax company info (for stats and reactions) etc.

Not what they *think* Not what they "suggest" but what the data says.

For each vaccine research and find- ingredients, reactions, chance of death, efficacy, etc.

For each disease research and find- treatments (look in older parenting and nursing books), complications, numbers of cases in your area, chance of death.

When I weighed those against each other, I did not find any vaccines that were worth the risk for my kids.

-Angela

Soem of the books are good for this because they have all the references right there. They are not opinions, but nicely condensed facts backed up by research and it's all right there for you. Sherry Tenpenny's book does everything you described above

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#7 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, all. I'm back from his first WBV, and I realized something about DH. He is still in residency-- this is his last year-- and our doctor is, out of necessity due to our insurance provider, one of his faculty. I hadn't fully put myself in his shoes, but I did today. It is one thing for his crazy, tandem nursing, elimination communicating, baby wearing, sleep sharing, whole foods eating wife to say, "mm, no vaccines today thanks-- I need to research them a bit more." It is another thing for him as an underling with a reputation yet to build to do that.

Not to say that there aren't folks out there with the ability to stick their neck out like that-- I know there are. But I also know that DH is not one of those people.

So now I am content with my role as the resident vaccine researcher! I have my packet inserts. I read through the DTaP and lordy, was it overwhelming or what!

Here we go!

Distraction is not the same thing as play.
Be part of the diaper free revolution. 

DS1, 6 years.  DS2, 4 years.  DS3, brand new!  (April 2012)
 

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#8 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 08:36 PM
 
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Good for you for doing the research. As you said your dh is in a very particular position and he needs you to be the asserive one. He will come to appreciate what you are doing for his child. I know from experience. DD was in exactly the same situation and she has two intact (first fight), vaccine free (second fight), totally allopathic medicine free (continuous squabbles but getting much less) sons, ages almost 3 and 5.

That is one lucky baby you have now!

Don't beat yourself up over what you didn't do. Sometimes mommy instincts take a while to surface. And by the time they do, they already vaccinate the heck out of kids. I think it is very clever on their part.
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#9 of 15 Old 11-07-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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Please don't beat yourself up. I hear people on here all the time say, my kids have no allergies, asthma, exzema, and are never sick. Both of my boys are unvaxed and one of them has terrible food and seasonal allergies, had exzema until I took dairy out of my diet, and is sick a lot. I think now that I know more though, I'm realizing he's not sick, but dealing with allergies. Not that I'm telling you to vax, I'm still antivax. I just don't want you to blame yourself for all those things because he could have had them even if he wasn't vaxed.
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#10 of 15 Old 11-08-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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Can you find a homeopath or naturopath ped/FP? Even if you didn't have views that differ from the mainstream medical community, it would still seem odd to be seeing a dr. who was also over your DH.....

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#11 of 15 Old 11-09-2008, 02:01 AM
 
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I found Dr. Mendelsohn's book "How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor" very helpful. He not only talks about vaccines, but also about vpd's and treatment.

Good Luck!
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#12 of 15 Old 11-09-2008, 10:57 AM
 
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Best of luck to you.

A few strategies that came to mind I would relay to you in your situation:

1) Tell DH that you can be the bad cop and be sure to let your doc know that this is coming from you, if that makes your DH much more comfortable to save face with this boss.

2) I would tell your ped that you are merely thinking of delaying for a while, given the autoimmune issues of dc1. You could delay indefinitely, and you'll find around the 2nd birthday that you can very easily justify a selective schedule at that point or you can keep delaying.

3) Stick with research that cannot be attacked by your standard MD. Mercola may not fly, so don't even cite him. That will distract from the discussion. I would DEFINITELY get your DH to read Mendelsohn's "How to Raise Healthy Kids in Spite of Your Doctor" with you, because it will be very thought-provoking for him, too. I also think Cave and Sears may be OK. I agree with the strategy to really look at raw data from the CDC, too.

4) Check out insidevaccines.com, too, for some great analysis of studies and data.

5) As had as it may be for both of you, get on the same page about your dc1. Admit to each other that his health is not what you want for dc2. Be detectives of all the things that interfered with his immune system (any antibiotics you or he took, non-vaginal delivery, any formula the first 3 months, any vaccines). All of these things could have altered his bacterial flora, and do your best to avoid all of these things for your ds2 and compare their health the first six months.

I am happy you got in touch with your mamma bear. Forgive yourself and move forward with awareness that you are being the best mother you can be in the moment.

::: Just another WAHM using this forum to put off picking up toys and cleaning my house.
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#13 of 15 Old 11-09-2008, 12:54 PM
 
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1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#14 of 15 Old 11-09-2008, 01:05 PM
 
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Hi,

I don't think I have anything new to add in terms of advice. You have come to the right place to get information so that you can make an informed decision.

Yay to your mama bear for coming out and , it sounds like your first visit went well (although complicated).

Megan, mama to her little boy (Feb2008) and introducing our little girl (Dec 2010)
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#15 of 15 Old 11-10-2008, 03:12 AM
 
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The new Tenpenny book has a list of studies all throughout the book (as do the Neil Z ****** books although those are footnoted at the end of the book).

Print out a whole stack of studies, and demand your MD hubby defend vaccines in light of that very valid research.

Liora, Frum Jew In Beijing, Mom of Three (one "Almost Autistic" healed in 3 years with biomed and one amazing girl with Down syndrome using Targeted Nutritional Intervention (TNI)
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