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#61 of 184 Old 04-17-2009, 01:41 PM
 
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Well, Eden had her first emergency trip to the after-hours ped clinic on Wed. Some common newborn rash, I guess. Not dangerous, just splotchy and kinda zitty looking. <snip>

And a question - how much does your bf baby spit up? Eden never spit up at all until yesterday and then she was doing it a lot. I wasn't counting poops, but they felt kinda less than usual (but lots of pee). I'll count today...she had one early this am but it was super thick, not her usual watery with curds....maybe I ate something she didn't like?
The rash reminds me of dd1's "cradle cap". I forget just when it kicked in, but hers extended all over her neck and down to her torso...very scary looking...and was, after all, just a common newborn rash. Dd2 seems prone to skin things too--she wasn't 24 hours old when one of the nurses asked me which side of the family is prone to skin problems, because she develops little patchy rashy bits pretty easily. That would be my side of the family.

Eliza varies on the spit up, but she definitely has days when I wonder if she's getting anything at all from what she eats, since it all seems to come up. I've been trying to remember to pause her every 10 minutes or so and try to get a good belch--that seems to head off the spit up later. Read somewhere recently that some breastfed babies will hardly poop at all, because the milk is so well digested. Haven't noticed that myself, but I'd say that as long as you're getting wet diapers, things are probably ok. I think I ate something that Eliza didn't like a few days ago--had a couple of leafy green poops with giant curds. Ick. I'd taken a couple of acidophalus [sp?] tabs the day before, in an attempt to rebalance my system after antibiotics, so I cut that out. Don't know if it was the cause, but I haven't seen it since.

Mom of two girls.
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#62 of 184 Old 04-17-2009, 03:17 PM
 
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Ds1 was a HUGE spitter upper, I so don't miss that. But Ds2 doesn't burp or spit up at all...its really weird but he also doesn't comfort nurse like Ds1 did, so that probably has something to do with it.

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#63 of 184 Old 04-17-2009, 03:53 PM
 
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well, we've had 3 poopy diapers in the last 5 hours, so no longer worried

Mama to one little blur, watching everything move too fast. Eden 4/10/2009.
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#64 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ack! i'm leaking from t'other side..that's new!


That was a suprise to me too! Took DS to the ped at 3 days and I went braless because my nipples were way too tender. Started nusing him while waiting for the ped and couldn't figure out why there was a huge wet circle on my shirt. Thankfully I had a black tshirt on under a thick sweater Wish someone had warned me ahead of time that the not-in-use boob leaks when you're nursing a newborn.
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#65 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 02:24 AM
 
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...that I'm not the only one who is finding the biggest challenge to having a new one to be dealing with the 2.5 year old older sibling?

Because, I feel terrible that new DD is by far the easiest infant, she's really not at all any stress, it's the toddler that makes me want to tear my hair out and run for a cave somewhere far, far away.

Anyone? *hears crickets*
Oh, totally there. And wasn't there a post above, as well?

As for me, no real tear, bottom is fine, nursing- I have an oversupply AGAIN, and trying to block feed I think may not be doing my ducts any good, but who's complaining as baby gained back her birth weight in two days (!) and had gained an ounce by day three. Afterpains were worse than the first time but then, I did it without so much as Ibuprofen this time and I'm glad. Lochea is still coming and it did with DD for six weeks! But it doesn't hurt so whatever.

The little one is perfect and she is a pretty easy baby though she does cry at diaper changes even though we use cotton cloths warmed by hot water for wipes- she just hates being undressed. Other than that, a decent nurser (could use a bit more top lip), a wonderful sleeper, and a hairy little monkey baby that looks like mommy.

Her sister has been a real trooper although definitely acting up. Dealing with the toddler takes MUCH more energy but we've been managing. Tips that have helped:

-Play a game w/toddler every time you nurse the baby. Catch (w/ a very soft ball), read, sing songs, etc. (My aunt suggested this, she ought to know, she had three, all of them within four years, and then twins to top it off when she was 42! : And BF them all for at least a year!)
-Ask toddler to help get things. Let them do as much as possible for the baby (put down the pad for changing, etc.).
-Let toddler have her own "baby" to take care of, to nurse, etc.
-Let other people take the baby as much as possible. I'm a lot more generous with this baby than with my first.
-Indulge the toddler in baby wishes. You want a sippy? Okay. You want me to "change your diaper"? Okay. (We pretend.) You want to be held like a baby and put down for a nap? Okay. I draw the line at nursing because my nipples do NOT need the stimulation but otherwise I try to indulge her.

So far, she has been acting up a bit but nothing unbearable. We'll see when my mom goes back to work...

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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#66 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 12:10 PM
 
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nak
best advice i ever got re: sibs was to let your older one hear you tell the baby "[baby], i can't hold you right now because i have to do [xyz] with [older sib]". the older sib likely hears you say that to *them* a lot (i have to nurse the baby, i have to change the baby, etc) so it really helps for them to HEAR you telling the BABY to wait for once. even though we all make the baby wait sometimes anyway, without saying it out loud, it really does help the really concrete thinking little ones to *hear* them being chosen over the baby.
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#67 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 01:00 PM
 
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okay... almost 3 weeks pp and feeling that emotional roller coaster many mommas here have mentioned. Had bit of a meltdown yesterday....
Parker must be going through a growth spurt... because it seems he wants nothing else then to nurse ALL THE TIME. Which is fine, and doesn't bother the boobs - but it makes nighttime AWFUL! I had him on a 3/4 hour sleep block overnight... but not anymore! Every 2-3 hours he wants to eat! I pumped yesterday and had DH give him his first bottle and that went over great! I finished the feeding at the boob and he didn't seem to be confused at all. But after taking 1.5 ounces from the bottle and then another 10-15 of nursing... he still woke up 2.5 hours later! ACK! I had spent most of the day in PJ's reading and nursing... DH came in a said "so what are you going to do today?" he later claimed that he was just worried, and didn't think it was "healthy" to stay in bed all day - but it really didn't go over well with me. I snapped back "the same thing I do every other day, nurse him and nap!". We both ended up ignoring each other for the rest of the day until we hashed it all out that night.
It started with me sobbing because I thought DH was thinking I was lazy (being in bed all day) when everything I was reading about was telling me that all I needed to focus on now was bonding and nursing. I was frustrated, and feeling like my DH wasn't trusting me and what I was doing...
I told him that I just need some comfort and reassurance from him that I'm doing a good job - that he sees how hard I'm working to get things right and that he loves me for doing what's best for our baby. He claimed he was doing those things.... I said I needed to hear it a bit more...

Today is better (by far) and I think the way I felt had more to do with getting so little sleep the night before...

I'm also trying to eat a bit better... it seems I'm already back to my old habit of shipping meals (or eating late)... which also isn't good for me (or breastfeeding)....lol.

sigh.... up and down, up and down.... but it's all so worth it when that tiny little boy is snuggled in my arms and completely content.

Kim - momma to Parker James REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif3/31/09 and Eva Lorraine energy.gif3/17/12

 

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#68 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 02:42 PM
 
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I've had three meltdowns so far, about one a week. The last had dh and I huddled in the (very small) master bathroom, hashing things out...because my inlaws were here and had, as far as we could tell, decided not to stay put in two guest rooms, but had decided that one would sleep on the living room sofa. And dd1 and dd2 were asleep in the bedroom.

Mom of two girls.
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#69 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 03:06 PM
 
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Just crashing this thread to say you guys are amazing!!! Im reading all of this thread and it giving me more confidence on what Im about to expect and how to deal with it. The bfing stuff is priceless!!!!

wife. dd1 : dd2
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#70 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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nak
it's suddenly starting to hurt a bit (sting) when i pee, which it wasn't before. should i be concerned?

and i am still having a bit of tenderness in my abdomen/uterus area. i notice it when i move around or walk. i'm 9 days post partum. i can't remember how long it took me to feel like i was back to normal last time. i thought it was before 9 days...but maybe not?

anybody else still feel *off* at 9 days pp?
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#71 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 05:48 PM
 
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i wanted to ask here whether its normal to be dropping a ton of weight quickly while bfing. i mean id heard its faster, but at this point i only have 7lbs till im at my pp weight. with dd1 (ffd), it took me 3 mos to get back there and i gained less with that pg. i probably shouldnt be complaining, lol. im eating more now than i did while pg too. is this ok?? i think i may add more calories because i dont want to go too far below my pp weight, i dont think it would be healthy. also wanted to mention that gwyn met her little cousin today who is 16 mos old. they are too cute together! and im having the same emotional issues others are at 17 days pp. threw a fit at dh after being up most of the night with baby who was having gas issues and would not sleep. ugh! otherwise we are doing well, and im loving reading about all the new babies being born!

Leah- mama to Audrey born 12/29/03 and Gwyneth born 4/1/2009! Soon to be TTC #3!
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#72 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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nak
it's suddenly starting to hurt a bit (sting) when i pee, which it wasn't before. should i be concerned?

and i am still having a bit of tenderness in my abdomen/uterus area. i notice it when i move around or walk. i'm 9 days post partum. i can't remember how long it took me to feel like i was back to normal last time. i thought it was before 9 days...but maybe not?

anybody else still feel *off* at 9 days pp?
I'm 21 days PP and still feeling bogged down thanks to the tears. Well, more accurately, I feel like I've been on the first day of my period since the birth. I was still having the burning/stinging painful pees at 9 days PP (it seemed to peak right around then) so I'd say if you had a tear, you're well within the range of normal

Mentally, the first 10 days were rough. Made a placenta smoothie on day 10 and have been feeling on top of the world ever since
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#73 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:07 PM
 
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i wanted to ask here whether its normal to be dropping a ton of weight quickly while bfing. i mean id heard its faster, but at this point i only have 7lbs till im at my pp weight. with dd1 (ffd), it took me 3 mos to get back there and i gained less with that pg. i probably shouldnt be complaining, lol. im eating more now than i did while pg too. is this ok?? i think i may add more calories because i dont want to go too far below my pp weight, i dont think it would be healthy. also wanted to mention that gwyn met her little cousin today who is 16 mos old. they are too cute together! and im having the same emotional issues others are at 17 days pp. threw a fit at dh after being up most of the night with baby who was having gas issues and would not sleep. ugh! otherwise we are doing well, and im loving reading about all the new babies being born!
Absolutely! I lost all my weight within 10 days pp with DS1 and then I started losing even more I really had to eat alot. It was great! And I was the envy of all my gfs and neighbors. I expected the same this time around and it's not happening It's really upsetting me. I have about 8lbs to go before I am my pre-pg weight and I am 3 weeks pp. Many of my clothes still do not fit and I am really not eating much (I am so hungry but really trying to stick to a modest amt of calories- I feel like I really should be down to nothing at this pont and I am not!) Apparently, my 'dieting' is not affecting my milk supply at all - my breasts are in overload or something... I am making a ton of milk. What the heck is going on with my body, I wonder? I can't lose this last 8 lbs even though I am exclusively BFing and being real careful about how much I eat, and I am making a ton of milk despite my efforts at not eating too much. It's crazy. Someone tell me one day soon I'll wake up and all the lbs will be gone! The other strange thing was last time I lost quite a bit of hair (I have alot so no big deal and I know it's normal for that happen pp), I shedded ALOT for little while starting a couple of weeks pp. This time around no hair falling out yet - not even my non-pg normal daily amt - it's as if I am still pg, my scalp is hanging on to every strand.
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#74 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:23 PM
 
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Absolutely! I lost all my weight within 10 days pp with DS1 and then I started losing even more I really had to eat alot. It was great! And I was the envy of all my gfs and neighbors. I expected the same this time around and it's not happening It's really upsetting me. I have about 8lbs to go before I am my pre-pg weight and I am 3 weeks pp. Many of my clothes still do not fit and I am really not eating much (I am so hungry but really trying to stick to a modest amt of calories- I feel like I really should be down to nothing at this pont and I am not!) Apparently, my 'dieting' is not affecting my milk supply at all - my breasts are in overload or something... I am making a ton of milk. What the heck is going on with my body, I wonder? I can't lose this last 8 lbs even though I am exclusively BFing and being real careful about how much I eat, and I am making a ton of milk despite my efforts at not eating too much. It's crazy. Someone tell me one day soon I'll wake up and all the lbs will be gone! The other strange thing was last time I lost quite a bit of hair (I have alot so no big deal and I know it's normal for that happen pp), I shedded ALOT for little while starting a couple of weeks pp. This time around no hair falling out yet - not even my non-pg normal daily amt - it's as if I am still pg, my scalp is hanging on to every strand.
i keep wondering about my hair too. i was expecting to be losing gobs by now.good luck with the 8 lbs- it will come off!! im still wearing my bella band, other wise my pants are still too tight in the waist. so dont feel too bad.

Leah- mama to Audrey born 12/29/03 and Gwyneth born 4/1/2009! Soon to be TTC #3!
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#75 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:31 PM
 
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nak
best advice i ever got re: sibs was to let your older one hear you tell the baby "[baby], i can't hold you right now because i have to do [xyz] with [older sib]". the older sib likely hears you say that to *them* a lot (i have to nurse the baby, i have to change the baby, etc) so it really helps for them to HEAR you telling the BABY to wait for once. even though we all make the baby wait sometimes anyway, without saying it out loud, it really does help the really concrete thinking little ones to *hear* them being chosen over the baby.
That is a great, great idea and thank you. I will do that next time I hear #2 fussing when I know it's not super urgent.

I do not know what my PP weight is but it's not been a week. I'm shoveling the Nutella and buckwheat waffles and omelettes and red meat, though, as I lost a lot of blood. I must have lost a liquid pound of blood, plus 7.5 lbs of baby, though, so that only leaves me 12 lbs to go, maximum.

HOWEVER- it is all on my butt so I can't wear my old jeans! And I think my hips expanded permanently this time. That's okay- I wasn't big so whatever. If I have to go out and buy a bunch of size four jeans, nobody's going to go hungry.

Last time hair loss started at 3 months for me, and it never thickened back up, but this time, I have found hairs on baby from day three. I will be bald!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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#76 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:49 PM
 
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And I think my hips expanded permanently this time. That's okay- I wasn't big so whatever.
This is what i am afraid of! I could use hips, actually, as long as I slimmed down I wouldn't mind a more hourglass shape, seriously ... BUT my jeans! I have two pairs of Lucky jeans and one pair of Red Engine that I LOVE LOVE LOVE and that I paid an arm and a leg for... none of them will even fit me if my hips are permanently expanded! So, despite the fact that I would probably look better with a bit more hip, I want my jeans to fit!
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#77 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 06:52 PM
 
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nak
best advice i ever got re: sibs was to let your older one hear you tell the baby "[baby], i can't hold you right now because i have to do [xyz] with [older sib]". the older sib likely hears you say that to *them* a lot (i have to nurse the baby, i have to change the baby, etc) so it really helps for them to HEAR you telling the BABY to wait for once. even though we all make the baby wait sometimes anyway, without saying it out loud, it really does help the really concrete thinking little ones to *hear* them being chosen over the baby.
I just did this after reading this and DS1 was so pleased. And then he was really sweet to the baby after I was finished helping him (baby wasn't in dire need of me so it really worked out). Great advice - I think it really made DS1 feel better and realize he was still just as important to us too.
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#78 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 08:19 PM
 
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I;m finally a pp mama now :

Surprisingly I feel really good, this, so farm is my best pp. I actually feel better today, 36hrs after giving birth than I did last Sunday.

The after pains are ROUGH though. I've been taking 2 tylenol #3 and 800mg motrin I'm going to start using my afterease and hopefully wean down the pain killers some tomorrow

The kids are thrilled with the baby DD1 is so so happy. I think she held Eden more today than anyone else, me included

I got 3 stitches I'm kinda of nervous about them. I had stitches with DS1 and I had tons of issues with them. I just wouldn't healed and ended up having to have them cauterised :
Anyone have any tips for helping them heal?

mum to Christopher (6/98) Elizabeth (2/05) twins Aaron and Dominic (7/10/06) and new baby Eden (4-18-09)
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#79 of 184 Old 04-19-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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I got 3 stitches I'm kinda of nervous about them. I had stitches with DS1 and I had tons of issues with them. I just wouldn't healed and ended up having to have them cauterised :
Anyone have any tips for helping them heal?
I had no episiotomies but did have stitches after DS1 and 2 and never had any problems. I just made sure I was religious about (warning TMI!) 1. pat after peeing (don't rub or wipe - the tissue can tear a bit), 2. rinse with warm water from the peri bottle every single time you are at the potty (did this for like 4 weeks). Rinse from forward to back (so hold the bottle pointing at the front and let it spray to the back. Can use some witch hazel in the water if that helps.

That's it though. Nothing complicated. Just tried to keep it really clean and actually moist. Sometimes the drying that happens (from hormone changes) after birth can make the skin so dry the stitches dry out and get infected. Hope this can help you!
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#80 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 01:34 PM
 
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nak
it's suddenly starting to hurt a bit (sting) when i pee, which it wasn't before. should i be concerned?

and i am still having a bit of tenderness in my abdomen/uterus area. i notice it when i move around or walk. i'm 9 days post partum. i can't remember how long it took me to feel like i was back to normal last time. i thought it was before 9 days...but maybe not?

anybody else still feel *off* at 9 days pp?
I'm 10 days pp and feel like the adrenaline is just wearing off...got the pee thing here, too. drinking lots of water helps.

nursing question:

the lc said if my flat nipple hurt too bad to nurse i could pump it and save the milk and only feed baby on the other side. this morning i woke up and decided the pain was ruining our bf experience and i needed to pump that side...but i don't want to double my supply...how often should i pump to avoid engorgement, but not terribly increase my supply?

Mama to one little blur, watching everything move too fast. Eden 4/10/2009.
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#81 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 02:01 PM
 
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I'm 10 days pp and feel like the adrenaline is just wearing off...got the pee thing here, too. drinking lots of water helps.

nursing question:

the lc said if my flat nipple hurt too bad to nurse i could pump it and save the milk and only feed baby on the other side. this morning i woke up and decided the pain was ruining our bf experience and i needed to pump that side...but i don't want to double my supply...how often should i pump to avoid engorgement, but not terribly increase my supply?
Not PP yet but bfing questions I can help with. If you aren't nursing on that side right now to let it heal then you need to pump as often as baby would nurse, every 2-3 hours right now. You want to send the signal to that breast to continue making milk instead of decreasing production.

There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.
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#82 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 02:30 PM
 
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Not PP yet but bfing questions I can help with. If you aren't nursing on that side right now to let it heal then you need to pump as often as baby would nurse, every 2-3 hours right now. You want to send the signal to that breast to continue making milk instead of decreasing production.
And in any case, you can always freeze the milk you pump for later use.

Mom of two girls.
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#83 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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And in any case, you can always freeze the milk you pump for later use.
yeah, i plan to...

Mama to one little blur, watching everything move too fast. Eden 4/10/2009.
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#84 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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Great to catch up on all of you! Can't wait to join you PP!
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#85 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 03:02 PM
 
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Kate I'm confused, are you not wanting to nurse on that side at all?

mum to Christopher (6/98) Elizabeth (2/05) twins Aaron and Dominic (7/10/06) and new baby Eden (4-18-09)
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#86 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 03:24 PM
 
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I don't know...right now I'm just taking a break...I just couldn't do it this morning. I'm going to see if some of the swelling goes down and try again, but if things don't get better, I don't know what I'll do. Part of the issue I think is that my breasts are completely different from each other and baby has a really hard time latching on the larger one, which tends to be more full of milk, anyway. I've been hand expressing a bit before getting her latched, just so she can get a mouthful. It usually takes 5-6 latch attempts to get her on that side, which is probably part of the reason it's so swollen. And I know I've been totally tensing up in anticipation of the pain and likely pulling back at times and spoiling her latch. My 'good' breast still had a semi-flat nipple, but baby was able to suck that into shape by day 8 or so and now I just have a slight tingle at latch and nursing has actually become enjoyable for us on that side. The other side just keeps getting worse.

Mama to one little blur, watching everything move too fast. Eden 4/10/2009.
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#87 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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the lc said if my flat nipple hurt too bad to nurse i could pump it and save the milk and only feed baby on the other side. this morning i woke up and decided the pain was ruining our bf experience and i needed to pump that side...but i don't want to double my supply...how often should i pump to avoid engorgement, but not terribly increase my supply?
I would pump as often as the baby would nurse. If you are not nursing in addition to pumping, that should not up your supply. What would increase your supply is if you were pumping AND nursing, and thus getting twice the stimulation. I think pumping one side is a great idea. It might pump the nipple into shape as well.

Hold on. Okay. Because I just realized, that since baby will be nursing twice as often on the other side, you will end up with 150% of the supply you need if you pump as often as she "would" be nursing on that side (twice what you need on one side, and as much as you need on the other). So you could either:

(a) Just accept that and plan to gradually reduce her nursing on the good side after the difficult side is ready, or;
(b) Feed her the pumped milk from a bottle, say, at night, when your DH can do it, so that your good side is not nursed as much, or;
(c) Accept the prospect of permanent lopsidedness and only express manually but otherwise do not nurse much on the difficult side at all, and let them have different supplies.

I cannot think of any other options but if I were you, I'd go for (a). I have an oversupply issue as well but not flat nipples and I know how painful it is but at least if you work on the good side later, then first of all it will be later and you will have more stamina to deal and also, it will get more frequent relief.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
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#88 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 05:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wobblykate View Post
yeah, i plan to...
i dont have any advice, just wanted to give some sympathy. dd was able to draw my nipples out, but not until after 10 or so days of terrible pain. i would hesitate while trying to get her to latch as well, which caused even more problems. now our nursing relationship is much more enjoyable, but it is still a bit harder to nurse on the flatter side. good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Leah- mama to Audrey born 12/29/03 and Gwyneth born 4/1/2009! Soon to be TTC #3!
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#89 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 06:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Hold on. Okay. Because I just realized, that since baby will be nursing twice as often on the other side, you will end up with 150% of the supply you need if you pump as often as she "would" be nursing on that side (twice what you need on one side, and as much as you need on the other).
This was my worry...but I don't really want to bottle feed her at all until 4 weeks. I guess I'm just hoping a day off will make a difference in how the nipple feels and I'll be able to nurse that side again. For today, I'm pumping the left side every 3 hours, (baby actually feeds more like 1.5-2 hrs) and only pumping for 10 minutes max (baby's entire feeding averages about 45 min, some of which is pacifying). I just got 4 oz in 3 feedings, don't know if that's oversupply or not. My nipple already feels better, but I'm worried that taking a break will negate all the work she's already done to pull the nipple out. Sigh.

Mama to one little blur, watching everything move too fast. Eden 4/10/2009.
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#90 of 184 Old 04-20-2009, 09:24 PM
 
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nak

i had this issue w/ds1 and it led me to supplement w/formula bc both sides were like that and i could.not.take.the.pain.

until he was 4mo and i realized that all the breaks i'd taken were only setting me back

so i threw away the formula at 4mo and spent the next 5 days in sheer agony until my nipples calloused (sp?) over and it was smooth sailing after that.

this time around (dc#3 after nonstop nursing and tandemming for 6 yrrs) my right nipple is sore every time, bc my dd had stopped nursing on that side during my pregnancy and it got unused to nursing.

so my advice, from experience, is (unfortunately) to just tough it out. which really really really sucks, i know. but i fear that your breaks will only postpone the callousing and you'll spend a longer time in torture.
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