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Old 01-19-2010, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know I'm not the only one dealing with opinionated family members/acquaintances/strangers comments about HS'ing. I don't apologize for our choice but I am getting pretty tired of the comments. So what do you do when "pass the bean dip" just won't cut it and you would actually like to "defend" your position?

Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"

I've had friends who have purposely kept their kids in classes with "mean" teachers to try and teach their kids how to "cope" in the real world. I don't agree with their reasons but at the same time....sometimes I wonder if I *am* too soft/protective of my kids.

anyone else?

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Old 01-19-2010, 06:13 PM
 
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My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."

Dealing with bullies or peer pressure in the workplace as an adult has nothing to do with school or the public school experience. Do you run and tell the teacher when someone bullies you at work?! No, you deal with them like an adult, because you're an adult. That's just a weird comparison to even make, IMO. If I met an adult who expected the social structure of an adult workplace to resemble high school in any way, I would think they had major issues.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:29 PM
 
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i get this a lot.

sadly we are not even kindy age yet -- but around here he is already a year pst when everyone from non-homeschooling families starts pre-school and when he was TWO i had a "friend" who's dd is a full 11 months younger wanting to compare research on the best schools. She still sends me stuff about every great program and preschool she finds.

I get an "extra dose of it" I feel (maybe i am wrong) because Theo has some SN and comes across as "jsut immature adn in need of more structure / rules / discplien" .. so i get a lot of "you're coddling him" and "ytou won't let him grow up" and "he needs time away from you" and such like that.



It is getting to be a pain already -- i think what gets me is the idea that school would fix his SN or fix him ..and the undertone of comment on our whole parenting that is tied into homeschooling.

wish i had answers.

A

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Old 01-19-2010, 06:42 PM
 
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My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."

Dealing with bullies or peer pressure in the workplace as an adult has nothing to do with school or the public school experience. Do you run and tell the teacher when someone bullies you at work?! No, you deal with them like an adult, because you're an adult. That's just a weird comparison to even make, IMO. If I met an adult who expected the social structure of an adult workplace to resemble high school in any way, I would think they had major issues.
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:18 PM
 
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There are lots of adults who have trouble dealing or are freaks or whatever else it is that people say will happen to your homeschooled kid.But most people went to school so obviously it's not school that is teaching kids how to grow up to be well balanced functioning adults.

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Old 01-19-2010, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by lynsage View Post
My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."

Dealing with bullies or peer pressure in the workplace as an adult has nothing to do with school or the public school experience. Do you run and tell the teacher when someone bullies you at work?! No, you deal with them like an adult, because you're an adult. That's just a weird comparison to even make, IMO. If I met an adult who expected the social structure of an adult workplace to resemble high school in any way, I would think they had major issues.
Love this, Thank you!!!


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Originally Posted by Momma Aimee View Post
i get this a lot.

sadly we are not even kindy age yet -- but around here he is already a year pst when everyone from non-homeschooling families starts pre-school and when he was TWO i had a "friend" who's dd is a full 11 months younger wanting to compare research on the best schools. She still sends me stuff about every great program and preschool she finds.

I get an "extra dose of it" I feel (maybe i am wrong) because Theo has some SN and comes across as "jsut immature adn in need of more structure / rules / discplien" .. so i get a lot of "you're coddling him" and "ytou won't let him grow up" and "he needs time away from you" and such like that.



It is getting to be a pain already -- i think what gets me is the idea that school would fix his SN or fix him ..and the undertone of comment on our whole parenting that is tied into homeschooling.

wish i had answers.

A
I truly understand you. My SN son has lots of behavioral challenges so I too get the "he needs to be in school" lecture

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There are lots of adults who have trouble dealing or are freaks or whatever else it is that people say will happen to your homeschooled kid.But most people went to school so obviously it's not school that is teaching kids how to grow up to be well balanced functioning adults.
I like this one! Thanks!

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Old 01-19-2010, 09:06 PM
 
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I know I'm not the only one dealing with opinionated family members/acquaintances/strangers comments about HS'ing. I don't apologize for our choice but I am getting pretty tired of the comments. So what do you do when "pass the bean dip" just won't cut it and you would actually like to "defend" your position?

Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"

I've had friends who have purposely kept their kids in classes with "mean" teachers to try and teach their kids how to "cope" in the real world. I don't agree with their reasons but at the same time....sometimes I wonder if I *am* too soft/protective of my kids.

anyone else?
That whole "dealing with mean bosses" thing really bothers me. People are acknowledging that school sets children up to accept less in life and to "deal with" abuse, but they don't see it. I want my children to grow up to be assertive and firm and not to be "yes men" I intentionally raise them to have no fear of authority. Respect, yes, but not that unhealthy fear that cripples the American working class and keeps them in jobs they hate and in lives that are meaningless.

So, I guess my response to that would be "So, you want me to raise my children to be a "yes man?" Or, "I wouldn't let a stranger borrow my car, but I'm supposed to hand my child to strangers?" Ugh.

I'm reading "The Underground History of American Education" Now, so I guess I'm kind of fired up about it. Really good read. I don't agree with all of it, but enough of it is true to assure me that I'll never put my children in that institution if I don't have to.

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Old 01-19-2010, 09:17 PM
 
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My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."
Best response ever

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Old 01-19-2010, 09:47 PM
 
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My kids have had to deal with all that on playgrounds and in organizational groups that they belong to. They don't need to sit in a room for 9 hours to see how life is.

I call it "playground justice." They're doing perfectly fine.

Welcome to the Real World she said to me, condescendingly, take a seat. Take your life; plot it out in black and white.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That whole "dealing with mean bosses" thing really bothers me. People are acknowledging that school sets children up to accept less in life and to "deal with" abuse, but they don't see it. I want my children to grow up to be assertive and firm and not to be "yes men" I intentionally raise them to have no fear of authority. Respect, yes, but not that unhealthy fear that cripples the American working class and keeps them in jobs they hate and in lives that are meaningless.

So, I guess my response to that would be "So, you want me to raise my children to be a "yes man?" Or, "I wouldn't let a stranger borrow my car, but I'm supposed to hand my child to strangers?" Ugh.

I'm reading "The Underground History of American Education" Now, so I guess I'm kind of fired up about it. Really good read. I don't agree with all of it, but enough of it is true to assure me that I'll never put my children in that institution if I don't have to.
ITA! My oldest dd14 is learning how to deal with "authority". She has had to email a few of her teachers for school (she does a virtual academy at home). I had to have her reword her email because she came off sounding a tad bit disrespectful...one of her sentences were "No offense, but this is not the only class I have". I'm glad she isn't intimidated by authority but she still needs to learn how to reel it in a bit...

I want to read that book...it sounds like something that would fire me up too!

We pulled her out of our local public high school after two weeks because 1. There were 4500 students there and 2. It was more of a juvenile hall situation than a school. She has been hs'd on and off since first grade. She went to a small private school where my dad teaches for 8th grade last year. She made principals list (the good one ) and had a 3.8 GPA. On the day we registered her for HS, the assistant principal told her "I don't expect any trouble from you, and I expect you to be on time". He talked to her like she was coming from prison or something. He also questioned her about her "friends". He asked if she had any friends from the neighborhood that went to the high school too....she said no......He then went on to tell me "Wow, when you say she had been homeschooled, you meant she never left the house!"

So, all that to say that I'm glad she doesn't have fear of authority as she shouldn't. I tell her she needs to show respect for others regardless of their age/gender/race/religious beliefs/etc. if she wants to receive respect in return.

PS. When we left the school that day, I told her the principal was a jerk.

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Old 01-19-2010, 10:09 PM
 
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Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"
An adult has the option of finding a new job. A child (without a parent's intervention) does not have the option of finding a new school. It is irritating when uninformed people assert that school is anything resembling adult life.

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Old 01-19-2010, 10:46 PM
 
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I would say "well I guess if the kid is use to conforming to other peoples expectations, and suppressing their own ideas then they would have plenty of experience to qualify them to work for a jerk.

I don't want my kids to work somewhere they aren't happy . If I am unhappy I change jobs or careers. Life is not all about "the job" and I think that is why so many people are unhappy in this world.

My 9 yr old pretty sensitive and yielding . Part of my goal of hs is to give him assertiveness so he doesn't have to take the jive. I don't think the classroom is gonna do that for him. Dh was just commenting last night about how he was glad that ds isn't at school being bullied or teased. We know he would probably get a big dose of teasing if he were in school.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:53 PM
 
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What exactly is a "mean boss"?

IME, most of the bullying that goes on in schools would be considered harassment and/or assault in the adult world.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:57 PM
 
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What exactly is a "mean boss"?

IME, most of the bullying that goes on in schools would be considered harassment and/or assault in the adult world.


My first day at a college (that I no longer attend BTW) I was 5.25 minutes late for my first day of class. (The teacher's measurement, not mine). As I attempted to open the door to enter the classroom, he shoved the door back, pinning me in the door while he explained that this was 'the real world now.'

Um, no, in the real world, I would have gotten to sue you for millions of dollars and possibly brought criminal charges against you. In the pseudo-academia world, I instead was threatened with expulsion if I called the police and told by staff that "this is just the way he is."



I wonder how many public schooled children go on to attend college and accept such abuse without blinking.

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Old 01-20-2010, 12:16 AM
 
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I just read this article today and thought it belonged on this thread

http://www.webeans.net/hutt/socialize.htm

Enjoy

Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

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Old 01-20-2010, 12:59 AM
 
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Oh and by the way, I attended public school from the age of three and was fired from my first job out of college. Obviously I learned well!

What helped me learn to handle the "real world," was...gosh...growing up and experiencing it. I had to learn a whole lot of things that I never learned along the way.

We do not have cable TV and my kids can only watch a bit of DVDs....and we have control over when. Combine that with the homeschooling and I hear the same thing as all of you.

Welcome to the Real World she said to me, condescendingly, take a seat. Take your life; plot it out in black and white.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:11 AM
 
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My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."
Best. response. ever.


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If I met an adult who expected the social structure of an adult workplace to resemble high school in any way, I would think they had major issues.
I honestly think that people do not actually give thought to it. They seriously don't sit there and compare what high school is like to what work is like. Much the same way they like to blurt out the whole "what about socialization?" thing without really thinking about what school is like in terms of socializing (I was always told I wasn't there for that, btw )


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I get an "extra dose of it" I feel (maybe i am wrong) because Theo has some SN and comes across as "jsut immature adn in need of more structure / rules / discplien" .. so i get a lot of "you're coddling him" and "ytou won't let him grow up" and "he needs time away from you" and such like that.



It is getting to be a pain already -- i think what gets me is the idea that school would fix his SN or fix him
We got the same thing and ds was IN preschool, but only part-time. And we pulled him at age 4yo and the crap hit the fan. Seriously. Then it went from sheltering/coddling him to thinking I knew it all instead of letting people who knew what they were doing help him. Note: I am a former teacher, but even the schools (he qualified for services) would make sure I knew that I didn't teach long enough or I wasn't a Special Ed teacher or I didn't teach the same age range... everyone had reasons why a parent--even a parent who was a teacher--was unqualified to deal with my child at home. (fyi--about 1/3 of my students had IEPs and I had extra graduate work in Sped Ed, tyvm... not that any of it MATTERED! )


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An adult has the option of finding a new job. A child (without a parent's intervention) does not have the option of finding a new school. It is irritating when uninformed people assert that school is anything resembling adult life.



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I would say "well I guess if the kid is use to conforming to other peoples expectations, and suppressing their own ideas then they would have plenty of experience to qualify them to work for a jerk.

I don't want my kids to work somewhere they aren't happy . If I am unhappy I change jobs or careers. Life is not all about "the job" and I think that is why so many people are unhappy in this world.



I'm in the midst of reading "Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto (extremely short read for those interested) and it explains how all these brainless idiots are unable to think for themselves. It also echoes a lot of what I saw as a teacher--and the reasons we are homeschooling.

If you want to argue the merits of homeschooling over a classroom (public or private), it's an excellent book to "arm" you. Only 94 small pages of medium sized print and written by a 35-year teaching veteran (and state level "teacher of the year"). After reading pieces of it to my husband, HE'S now reading the whole thing.

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Old 01-20-2010, 12:38 PM
 
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(I was always told I wasn't there for that, btw )
YES!That's what cracks me up so much.I can't even tell you how many times I heard a teacher say"If you want to socialize,you can do that on your own time".But that is the only reason my MIL thinks my daughter should go to school.So...I should send her to school to do something she is not suppose to do?I should send her school to do something she is going to get in trouble for?

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Old 01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
 
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My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."
I know that others have given you kudos for this, but I just had to chime in, too -- I've laughed on and off for the past couple of days just thinking about this. So, thank you -- and

Laura - Mom to ds (10) and dd (7) "Time stands still best in moments that look suspiciously like ordinary life." Brian Andreas.

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:03 PM
 
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Anybody want to talk about conduct grades? I got an "E" in conduct in 1st grade because I would finish my work, have nothing to do, so I would talk to my friends - obviously trying to socialize, but only after the obligatory work was done since I knew the "rules."

Laura - Mom to ds (10) and dd (7) "Time stands still best in moments that look suspiciously like ordinary life." Brian Andreas.

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Old 01-20-2010, 10:48 PM
 
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Can I just give a "yeah that" to this ENTIRE THREAD?

Thank you.

Heather, mom to Caileigh 12/06 and aspie ADHD prodigy David 05/98 :intact lact
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:11 AM
 
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Can I just give a "yeah that" to this ENTIRE THREAD?

Thank you.

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Old 01-21-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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I feel like our children have the rest of their adult lives to interact with mean or bad people and to experience the negativities of the real world. Why force them to go through it at a young age? I don't really understand the thinking behind that exactly. So it's not really a good enough reason for someone to question my choice to home school. I'm not sure why people who don't homeschool feel a young child HAS to go through bad things in order to learn about the real world.

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Old 01-21-2010, 04:39 PM
 
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I want to start by saying that I agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread, and I understand what the OP is going through. I've had people ask me how my children will learn to deal with bullies if they're homeschooled, and I just kind of silently roll my eyes. Luckily it hasn't happened often enough for me to bother to come up with a response.

Anyway, I did want to give a bit of a different perspective on this idea:

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Originally Posted by lynsage View Post
My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."
I understand what you're saying here, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with it. In some cases, I agree that it's just as easy, if not better, to learn something by being told about it, rather than having to go through it. However, in the case of bullies, I do actually think it's something you have to go through to really learn how to deal effectively. It's a relationship, and like any relationship, until you've experienced it, you're never going to truly know how to deal with it. You can talk to someone about marriage, for example, all you want, but until they've been married, they really won't know how to be successful at it, kwim?

I also have a problem with this reasoning because IMO, one of the BEST reasons for homeschooling is that you CAN'T simply tell someone about something, and expect them to learn it. I think true learning needs life experiences, which is often NOT what you get in school. So I'd be reluctant to praise homeschooling for the life experience children can get on the one hand, and then dismiss arguments about bullies saying children don't need life experience to learn, on the other.

What I would say to the bully question is that just like you can't expect a child to ride a bike or drive a car etc. before they are developmentally ready, you cannot expect them to deal with bullies before they are developmentally ready. I strongly believe, and will argue that point, that young children, and maybe even many teenagers, are just not developmentally ready to deal with bullies. Just like they're not developmentally ready to deal with being married, or being parents etc. So why on earth would I put them in a situation that they are not ready for?

Anyway, that's just my take on the bully question. Although I will say I'd prefer an answer like the stop drop and roll one because I think stupid questions about bullying deserve quick witted responses like that. I just can't logically agree with it.

Alyson: loving wife to Iain; unschooling mom to Abby (8) and Caleb (5). Also pro
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:48 PM
 
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Junie, I agree with you about the bullying experience being relationship-based, and in our case we had to teach DD how to deal with bullies because of a child she is around socially who bullies, takes toys, hits, etc. We talk in advance about how she's going to deal with this child's behavior when she sees them before we go to whatever social event the child is going to be attending, and then she handles it accordingly. I really believe it's a combination of being educated and prepared, and then applying those teachings when the situation arises, that leads to learning.

I still like my one-liner for shutting up people with nosy-pants-itis, though

P.S. thanks to everyone who commented to me about this- your responses really made my day
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:40 PM
 
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Okay, I'm probably spending WAY too much time thinking about this, lol, but a few other thoughts occurred to me while I was out shopping today.

First, rather than argue why public school is NOT good for learning how to deal with bullies, or that homeschooling is good, why not challenge the basic assumption that is being made, i.e.- that homeschooling HAS to be superior over public school in EVERY way in order for it to be an option. One of my biggest pet peeves is the impossibly high standards people expect homeschooling to meet, while NOT expecting the same from public schools.

Let's, for argument sake, say that children DO learn to deal with bullies better at public school (and for the record, I absolutely do NOT believe this). So what? Why does homeschooling have to be superior in every way, in order for it to be a good choice? Why can't it just be mostly better? Deciding how your child should be educated is about weighing the pros and cons of all the options available, and deciding which option is better. It's not about only choosing an alternative to public school IF, and only if, that alternative is superior in every way. There are certainly ways in which public school beats homeschooling, but if homeschooling is mostly better, then that's the best choice for your family, KWIM?

The other thing I thought of is if you want to be particularly snotty and sarcastic, which is a mood I find myself in occasionally , you could answer with something along the lines of "Well I'm not so sure that public school DOES teach kids to deal with bullies effectively. I mean, I went to public school, and I can't seem to get YOU to leave me alone . . . ." (This would be in response to someone who refuses to respect your decisions and won't leave you alone. To me that's being a bully.)

Alyson: loving wife to Iain; unschooling mom to Abby (8) and Caleb (5). Also pro
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:53 PM
 
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Junie, I agree with you about the bullying experience being relationship-based, and in our case we had to teach DD how to deal with bullies because of a child she is around socially who bullies, takes toys, hits, etc. We talk in advance about how she's going to deal with this child's behavior when she sees them before we go to whatever social event the child is going to be attending, and then she handles it accordingly. I really believe it's a combination of being educated and prepared, and then applying those teachings when the situation arises, that leads to learning.
I definitely agree that coaching helps a child learn, and learn more effectively at that. I think I was a little unclear. I didn't mean that children ONLY need real life experiences to learn, just that real life experiences are necessary. I agree that coaching in conjunction with experience leads to the best results. This is true in other relationships as well. Many couples out there could benefit from marriage prep courses, and certainly many parents would benefit from parenting classes . . .

Alyson: loving wife to Iain; unschooling mom to Abby (8) and Caleb (5). Also pro
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to everyone who's chimed in! I knew I wasn't alone in this and while I'm sorry you are all dealing with similar circumstances, It's comforting to know I have a place to come that can empathize with me

I think I'm sensitive to the bully issue because for 8 years of Catholic private school, I was on the receiving end of teasing/bullying/harassment from my peers.
It didn't make me stronger...it left me with massive scars that I still am dealing with. I tend to be a sensitive person with a lot of anxiety so it affected me deeply.
Plus my mom was EXTREMELY controlling and abusive in many respects.

She thought she was sheltering us by putting us in private school and raising us with basically 0 Tv and yet she is my biggest critic when it comes to homeschooling. Go figure.

Here's me I married then we had dd15 , dd11 , ds10 , and then and now we and I blog!
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:51 PM
 
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Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"
Well, having to deal with ignorant yet oh-so-opinionated people is part and parcel of being a homeschooler, it seems; people disagreeing, being pushy, being rude, pressuring, and possibly even mocking (usually not outright!! Thank goodness!) are all things that one might encounter by NOT going with the status quo. Your child IS learning to cope with negativity, thanks to any "helpful" relative or friend who carries this attitude around. Maybe actually hearing that will make them pause?

~ Colleen ~ Joyful Unschooling Pagan mama to hearts.gifenergy.gifsuperhero.gifjog.gif and babyf.gif
"When I'm sad, I stop being sad and be AWESOME instead."
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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My dbf says things like this. I've never had to learn to deal with a bully and I'm fine. You know why? Because if someone tries to assault me now, I'd call the police and that person would be in trouble. Why is it ok that kids can beat each other up, but if adults do it, we press charges? So learning to "deal with a bully" is not a skill, it's as simple as keeping a cell phone on you and dialing 911. Or maybe that's just for girls. I'm sure that's too wussy for boys.

I didn't learn to deal with mean teachers. My mom always stepped in and dealt with them. When I got my first job and my boss was evil, I did fine. Even as a teen, I dealt with it and kept that job for over 2 years! How did I learn if I never dealt with the mean teachers? I don't know. Maybe from dealing with people in *general*, not just mean people.

Mean girls? Whatever. That stuff almost completely stops when you leave high school. No sense "learning" to deal with it if everyone eventually grows up.

Peer pressure? Well homeschoolers will encounter that plenty, I'm sure. The fellow homeschooler down the street most definitely try to convince your kid to drink a little from his dad's liquor cabinet, just like any other kid. And your kid will probably experiment with shoplifting/smoking/drinking/sex/ect just like other kids and convince his homeschool buddies it's fun.
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