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Old 06-05-2010, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Which math counts like this ??

11 "one-ten-one"
12 "one-ten-two"

If it is Singapore, which I am considering Singapore or Math Mammoth, then is this type of counting odd? When do they make the switch over to regular counting? I hear a homeschool mom say that her older daughter still wants to count like that, instead of saying "eleven, twelve".

Does Math Mammoth count like this?

Or is it some completely other program so I do not need to "worry" about it?? i do see the advantage of counting like that, but wondering when they say it the regular way.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:14 PM
 
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math u see says one-ty one, etc
but, he also explains how it's counted and what it represents are different
i'm not sure what your concern is, exactly.

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Old 06-05-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by J2 View Post
Which math counts like this ??

11 "one-ten-one"
12 "one-ten-two"

If it is Singapore, which I am considering Singapore or Math Mammoth, then is this type of counting odd? When do they make the switch over to regular counting? I hear a homeschool mom say that her older daughter still wants to count like that, instead of saying "eleven, twelve".

Does Math Mammoth count like this?

Or is it some completely other program so I do not need to "worry" about it?? i do see the advantage of counting like that, but wondering when they say it the regular way.
I have both Singapore and Math Mammoth and neither does this. I'm pretty sure it's Math-U-See.

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Old 06-05-2010, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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math u see says one-ty one, etc
but, he also explains how it's counted and what it represents are different
i'm not sure what your concern is, exactly.
My concern would be if then a child would never count or never want to count by actually saying "eleven, twelve, thirteen, etc" Like I said, one mom said her child still wants to count like that. But at some point, people need to know to say "eleven, twelve, thirteen, etc".
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:47 PM
 
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RightStart uses that in their A level.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:49 PM
 
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This strikes me as something that would be included in an Asia-based or inspired program, as this is similar to how numbers are counted in many Asian languages. I read an article once stating that this linguistic difference may be partially responsible for the higher performance in mathematics in Asian countries... the number structure inherently teaches place value and is more intuitive than the Western structure with all the odd teen numbers.

However, I have no clue what program actually teaches this way.

Edit: Here's a similar article- http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt3.html

DS born 6/03, DD1 born 9/06, DD2 born 10/10, DD3 born 4/14.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:51 PM
 
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Right Start does. Late in level A they also teach the "proper" words... but that's after they've learned the one ten one method. I believe Level B also starts with this form of counting as well. Coordinates well with the abacus.

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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Old 06-05-2010, 03:56 PM
 
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Yep. RightStart.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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My concern would be if then a child would never count or never want to count by actually saying "eleven, twelve, thirteen, etc" Like I said, one mom said her child still wants to count like that. But at some point, people need to know to say "eleven, twelve, thirteen, etc".
I don't think there's any danger of a child never learning to count in English. If they do it for awhile, is it really that big of a deal?
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:15 PM
 
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I don't think there's any danger of a child never learning to count in English. If they do it for awhile, is it really that big of a deal?
It is RightStart. Neither of my kids have had any issue with counting the "normal here" way and the "way they do in Japan" at all. I don't see this as a big deal.

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Old 06-06-2010, 12:19 AM
 
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well, he's very clear about it being said "eleven, twelve, etc" but that it means "one-ty"

you teach your child to count in the lanugae you want. the curriculum is about training your child to work with the value of the numbers.

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Old 06-06-2010, 01:11 AM
 
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It is in RightStart Level A and I just blogged about this very fact today, coincidentally:
http://satorismiles.com/tag/rs

We love RightStart very much. Even if you don't choose to use the program, many people still take advantage of the RightStart games and their special abacus.

- Angela
mama homeschooling Satori, dd6 in the beautiful CO Rockies
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:13 AM
 
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Oh, also meant to add that my 5 year old daughter had no problem transitioning to the "new" or normal way of saying the numbers. Our transition occurred last month, and now we usually say the normal numbers. The advantage is that the old way (Asian number style) is still in her head though, which is great.

- Angela
mama homeschooling Satori, dd6 in the beautiful CO Rockies
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:35 PM
 
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As said, RightStart does this, and Math-U-See does something similar.

IMO this is one of the greatest STRENGTHS of RS.

As an example. My daughter is only 3. She has been able to count to 10 since she was 2. Counting beyond 10 gets confusing. She usually says "eleven, twelve, thirteen, fifteen, seventeen, nineteen, twenty!!!"

But if we remind her to count the 'math way', she says "ten-one, ten-two, ten-three, ten-four, ten-five, ten-six, ten-seven, ten-eight, ten-nine.... TWO-TEN!"

Rather than it being a rote memorization of a string of words, it's a true understanding of the repeating pattern of our base-ten counting system.

She can look at an abacus, count the tens and the ones and say "that's seven-ten three!" Again, it's about understanding the concept, rather than memorizing words (most of the ten-words are just the unit-words with 'ty', but not twenty or thirty, or fifty, and forty is spelled different, and the 'teens' are said backwards, for heaven's sake... why is "sevenTEEN" such a different number than "sevenTY"???)... and it CLEARLY shows the MEANING of the numbers. 50 is five-tens by definition. Memorizing the word "fifty" as following the word "forty-nine" doesn't necessarily mean they understand the tens groupings!

As for switching over to english counting words when the time comes... I've never personally heard of a kid having problems. Kids are hearing the english words all around them all the time. They're probably very used to them (case in point, my daughter -- I've never 'taught' her the english counting words, she's encountered them in books, movies, tv shows, computer games, from friends, etc) so it's just a matter of saying "now that we understand the concepts, we're going to use the english words from now on even with our math."

And if they do resist a bit... so what? If saying "2-ten-four" helps them calculate better than "twenty-four", what's wrong with that? I can't imagine any kid continuing that into their teenage years.

We started RS with my son when he was 10 - level E. You start with the 'Transitions' lessons, which quickly goes through all the beginning stuff to ease them into the program. He learned the 'math way' of counting. Things started to click for him that he'd always struggled with before!! It was like the veils falling from his eyes!

Even after he 'graduated' back to english counting, he would still fall back on the math way on occasion, when he found himself confused by a math problem. He'd be like "forty-eight plus seventeen... argh... let's see... 4-ten 8, plus 1-ten 7... oh okay, that's 5 tens and 15, so it's 65!"

He's now 12, doing pre-algebra and the RS middle school geometry. He doesn't do the 'math counting' anymore at all, he's internalized the concept well enough now that he doesn't have to. He just instinctively understands that 48 is 4 tens and 17 is one ten, he doesn't need a cue from the language anymore. But those language cues are how he GOT there.


Heather, mom to Caileigh 12/06 and aspie ADHD prodigy David 05/98 :intact lact
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