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money to homeschool from government?

50K views 126 replies 36 participants last post by  ewink 
#1 ·
Hi I am in Michigan. I was recently talking to a friend of mine and she said someone told her that they receive money from the government to homeschool. Is this true? Would it be a grant, tax right off, or maybe a special group their in? Ive never heard of this and cannot find any info online. My frined wont be seeing the person anymore so I can not get anymore info form her. Thanks
 
#77 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by yippityskippity View Post
While I fully understand a family choosing to go 100% independent with their homeschooling, I don't understand the vitriol and divisiveness toward parents who choose a publically-funded homelearning option.

As in: "WE must *draw a distinct line* between REAL homeschoolers and fake homeschoolers. WE are REAL homeschoolers, your kids are legally (gasp) PUBLIC school students and are totally unlike OUR "real" homeschooled children. Nevermind that we both pick out our own curriculum, cater to our children's learning styles, let them work at their own pace, do ALL the teaching and are with our kids all day every day. DRAW A LINE. You're *so* different from us real homeschoolers!

(Where's the puking emoticon??)

Sorry. This thread has really hit a nerve.

:

I think homeschooling is when you school at home. I could care less if boxed curriculum makes you feel better about how you teach, or if you get gov't money or your family is comfortable with complete unschooling.

The basic point of homeschooling for most of us (I think), is that we want to be our childrens' main teachers. We want to spend their days with them, know their friends, their influences, help shape and mould them and decide for our families what is right for us.

There are many right ways of doing most things that involve parenting of any stripe...right ways to birth, right ways to feed, right ways to train. And there are many right ways to educate our children.

love, penelope
 
#78 ·
Personally, I do not care how you educate your children. My children are not more "real" than yours because we're independent homeschoolers.

The divisiveness you experience is because of a perceived and potential threat to homeschooling freedoms.

From HEM March-April 2008:

Quote:
[A] major difference between homeschoolers and public virtual school parents is that homeschoolers have worked long and hard to prevent unnecessary state regulation. Those who have ended up under such regulations continue to oppose them. By contrast, many parents of public virtual school students welcome regulations, saying that without certified teachers, state approved curriculum, and testing, they would not be confident they were doing the right thing or their children were going to be okay.

If we don't maintain the distinction between homeschools and virtual charter schools, the regulations put on public virtual school students may be put on us. It is ironic, sad, and could be tragic, that we homeschoolers, who started out to maintain our right to educate our children according to our principles and beliefs and not those of the state, could end up under greater government control than families who send their children to conventional public schools. The government could only directly regulate their children while they were attending school, leaving their homes free from government regulation, but it could regulate our children, and us, in our homes.

<snip>

It sets a precedent of government monitoring and overseeing private citizens in their own homes. Many people will inevitably gradually come to accept this kind of government intrusion and surveillance, even if it seems wrong to them at first. In addition, as determined as we homeschoolers are to maintain our homeschooling freedoms, once the precedent is set, we may find that as a small minority we cannot stem the tide. We may end up subject to some, if not all, of the oversight that students of public virtual schools face.
Once again, I don't care how you teach your kids. But if you're using public-school-at-home, I would just prefer that you call it that. I don't understand the need to call it homeschooling.
 
#79 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by yippityskippity View Post
While I fully understand a family choosing to go 100% independent with their homeschooling, I don't understand the vitriol and divisiveness toward parents who choose a publically-funded homelearning option.

As in: "WE must *draw a distinct line* between REAL homeschoolers and fake homeschoolers. WE are REAL homeschoolers, your kids are legally (gasp) PUBLIC school students and are totally unlike OUR "real" homeschooled children. Nevermind that we both pick out our own curriculum, cater to our children's learning styles, let them work at their own pace, do ALL the teaching and are with our kids all day every day. DRAW A LINE. You're *so* different from us real homeschoolers!

(Where's the puking emoticon??)

Sorry. This thread has really hit a nerve.

If it makes you feel better, while some people obviously do feel that you aren't "real" homeschoolers, I think that they are in the minority. I hope that it's not something that you run into in real life. It is pretty offensive when someone tells you how you should self-identify on any issue, particularly one that seems so common sense to the majority.

I'm kind of wishing that this thread would just die, because the only thing that's going to happen is more judging. Which angers me, too.
 
#81 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post
When you receive government funding for your homeschool, you are essentially a public-schooled student with home-based instruction. Part of the state and federal funding goes directly to the school because your child is their student and part comes to you. Normal homeschooling laws no longer apply in this situation. You are bound to whatever rules the school you go through gives you. Most likely you will receive a teacher who oversees all of your work and may come to your home periodically to check on your children. Also if you have religious reasons for homeschooling, be aware that you may not use any tax funds to purchase religious curriculum.

I live in Colorado, and we are enrolled in a public school charter program or "umbrella" school. I consider us 100% homeschoolers, and our experience with the charter has been totally non-invasive and extremely supportive.

Religious materials are not allowed to be purchased with our yearly stipend. They buy everything else. We are secular, but really how much $ does one need to supplement their hs budget with religious materials? I don't think it's a problem for the many Christian hs-ers in our program.

We do have to do some testing--just entry/exit reading leveling and the "regular" CSAP crap for 3rd, 5th, 7th? I dislike that, but it would be required in our state regardless of our involvement in the charter or not.

There's no teacher who "watches" us or tells us what curriculum to use. We have a wonderful, supportive resource consultant who I bounce ideas off about curriculum. I am quite a researcher and she knows that I'm well-informed so she pretty much orders whatever I want for dd. She doesn't come check on us at our house---although she has been kind enough to bring materials over here when dh had the car or I when I was laid up in a difficult first trimester or my pregnancy. We do have to physically meet with her every month, but it's maybe 15 minutes or less and she mostly gives us free educational magazines, early readers, and tells us what a good job we're doing
relatively painless. We do have the option of having these meeting at our house, which I appreciate and do not see as "them" trying to snoop into our business, but more our RC trying to accomodate her parents to make everything as easy as possible.

I know some of these umbrella-type programs have only certain materials or certain budget regulations on what the $ can be spent on, but ours is REALLY open as to what we can buy. I love our ps charter! We write a learning plan at the beginning of the year, and then any materials that fall under that plan and are non-religious can be approved for purchase. So we can buy a guitar for dd, mini-trampoline for PE, voice recorder to record her story-telling, plus I think they'll even buy desks/child-sized tables (but I always want to spend the $ on fun learning stuff, not furniture!).

Our charter was started by grass-roots homeschoolers and is now an official "school" in our district, this next year will be it's third year. So there's hope. I don't know how the families who prompted the initiation of the school went about it, but they were just hs-ers like us!

**eta--oh and they've NEVER asked to see samples of dd's work. Sometimes I want to share, but that is not part of our program. They're not about "checking up on us" but about supporting us. We log hours online, and apparently that's sufficient along with the CSAP stuff that the older kids do.
 
#82 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by spruce View Post
I live in a state with extremely relaxed homeschooling laws. If you want to go completely Indy with your homeschooling experience, there's nobody to report to.

BUT, we have what seems to many of us a very good thing. Sign up with one of many distance ed schools, turn in a simple ILP, 4 samples per year, get your 3rd graders and above to yearly testing, and VOILA! Now you have $2000 to spend as YOU SEE FIT for every high schooler in your home (less for lower grades). No limits on how much of your funding can go for PE (we do karate and swim team), or art (we do Atelier, architecture and design), or just trips to the bookstore.

This is school money that we pay in property taxes already. The district running the program benefits, and we as parents and our children all benefit. My contact teachers are just there to file things.. That's it. They helped my 14yo with her decision to skip a grade, they signed her off on 8.5 credits last year, they accept credits in service learning, job shadowing, etc.

For many of us who are struggling to make our food budgets come together these days, this is really a nice worry off our minds...I know our paper, pens, supplies, books, science materials, etc., are all going to be taken care of.

And like I said, NONE of this is mandatory. I know several families who school independent of any program or resource...but most of them have found public school helpful for at least a few things over the years, and there we have the same issues all over again.

I agree, it's a wonderful thing to have choices, and I'm glad some of the money we already pay into the systems is going toward educating homeschooled children.
love, penelope
Ours is a lot like yours, spruce!

They pretty much do give us $ willy-nilly to support my kid's educational interests. It's great! She can take art classes, karate, music, whatever we want.

They are DEFINITELY NOT limiting our freedoms as to how to pursue dd's education, in fact I feel like it's exactly the opposite.

Yes, she's technically a student enrolled in our local school district, but instead of those ps $ funds going to the exact same PE or art or music or math program that every other ps kid in our district gets, we have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE what the $ allotted to her student status goes to support, and I love that
How great! I wish all the other kids in the district got to do that, too.

I wish that all kids, public schooled or home-schooled could have the option that we have along with their parents of deciding exactly how to custom tailor their educations to suit their interests.

And I don't think that my girl being a "public school home schooler" is messing up any of the indy hs-ers plans that I know of. They very slight accomodations that we make to be enrolled in the district are okay with me, and maybe not for my indy hs friends, but we all get along and do our own thing and hs our kids as we see fit. I'm no threat to them just coz dd is lucky enough to have an annual budget for educational materials.

Let's adopt that same attitude here . . . there does not need to be a "clear cut dividing line" between those of us who use charters and those who choose not to do so. We are all doing the best we can with the resources available to us to support our children's education in whatever way works best for our families.

Now settle down and breathe, everybody!
 
#83 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
I don't think you realize that CA educational laws do not mention homeschooling at all. I hope no state follows CA lead in that.
NJ is exactly the same. We are not recognized at all but not explicitly denied existence. Nothing is stated about homeschooling one way or the other. It's a double-edged sword.

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Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
I don't know what state you are in, but in most states your child would still be eligible for therapy through the school system no matter what. In fact I believe it is federal law that they can not deny such services.

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Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
I finally thought to look for the info. Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act your child can not be denied thearpy based on the fact he/she is not enrolled in a public school. http://idea.ed.gov/
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...rchid=11918244

Without reading the links (partially because I had an entire graduate course on IDEA and SpEd law), I have to tell you that the idea that hsers are entitled by law to SpEd therapies is subject to interpretation. So while you might be RIGHT, you may also be in a state where you will need to hire a lawyer (and spend a lot of money) to prove that point. I know this because I live in just such a state (see the beginning of this post). AND, HSLDA will not take on cases about SpEd services--so that option is out (not that I recommend them in general, but I did look into them when I was looking for a lawyer). In the end, in MY case, the district caved. Not because I was entitled by any obvious laws, but because they were already lined up for legal action in our case because they had withheld services for 18 months during a time when my son's homeschool status was non-issue and were dumb enough to put two items in writing that hung them on this point.
They withheld out of their complete negligence for identifying a program for him in a timely manner. By the time they got their act together, I refused to put him in a classroom program and they attempted to appease me to avoid my filing suit about their withholding for 18mo. Even then, I came (literally) within hours of meeting with a lawyer (that I was going into debt to afford) because they gave me such a hard time and downright bullied and harassed me over the whole thing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
We commoners can't possibly know what's good for us.

Ugh... that mentality among our politicians is seriously my greatest pet peeve EV. AR! Someone ought to remind them that most of THEM were "Joe Public" once, too.
 
#84 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by craft_media_hero View Post
Let's adopt that same attitude here . . . there does not need to be a "clear cut dividing line" between those of us who use charters and those who choose not to do so. We are all doing the best we can with the resources available to us to support our children's education in whatever way works best for our families.


It's not about who is doing "best". It's not about independent homeschoolers thinking they're better than those who use charters.

It has to do with lumping us all into one category. That sets a precedent where the educrats will quite possibly expect the same level of oversight for all of us.

I do not want to meet with anyone from the district.....EVER. For those of you who use charters and have monthly meetings with a teacher and don't see that as intrusive, GREAT! You don't see mandatory testing as invasive; wonderful! But you don't speak for ME, nor do you speak for a whole shipload of other homeschoolers. I totally am not interested in more red tape and being made to physically meet with some sort of "supervisor".

More and more people are turning to public-school-at-home every year. How long do you think it's going to be before state officials get tired of dealing with "these" homeschoolers and "those" homeschoolers and just try to streamline everything?
 
#85 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post


It's not about who is doing "best". It's not about independent homeschoolers thinking they're better than those who use charters.

It has to do with lumping us all into one category. That sets a precedent where the educrats will quite possibly expect the same level of oversight for all of us.

I do not want to meet with anyone from the district.....EVER. For those of you who use charters and have monthly meetings with a teacher and don't see that as intrusive, GREAT! You don't see mandatory testing as invasive; wonderful! But you don't speak for ME, nor do you speak for a whole shipload of other homeschoolers. I totally am not interested in more red tape and being made to physically meet with some sort of "supervisor".

More and more people are turning to public-school-at-home every year. How long do you think it's going to be before state officials get tired of dealing with "these" homeschoolers and "those" homeschoolers and just try to streamline everything?

Thank you for saying so well what I have been trying to say this entire thread.
 
#86 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
More and more people are turning to public-school-at-home every year. How long do you think it's going to be before state officials get tired of dealing with "these" homeschoolers and "those" homeschoolers and just try to streamline everything?
As I wrote earlier, in our jurisdiction it's been 17 years so far and no one is trying to streamline anything. If anything there's a greater range of options, not less: the charter-type arrangements include an option which allows families to unschool freely and honestly.

Miranda
 
#87 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
As I wrote earlier, in our jurisdiction it's been 17 years so far and no one is trying to streamline anything. If anything there's a greater range of options, not less: the charter-type arrangements include an option which allows families to unschool freely and honestly.

Miranda
That is absolutely wonderful, but you live in a different country than I do.
 
#88 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
That is absolutely wonderful, but you live in a different country than I do.

Yep...I've read the proposed legislation that has fortunately not yet passed in GA. It would changed the accountability for all homeschoolers in exchange for access to partial enrollment in public schools, access to PS sports and access to reimbursements for some materials.

When I first started homeschooling in 2001 I was very upset that there wasn't some type of assistance/funding. Then I started researching proposed legislation and new legislation in the US. In more cases than not the new or proposed regulations were across the board and not a new subset of the homeschooling laws.
 
#89 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
That is absolutely wonderful, but you live in a different country than I do.

But most people in this thread live in different states than you do. Homeschooling regulations vary state by state. My understanding of this thread was that it was discussing the situations in various different jurisdictions and drawing conclusions about general trends in governmental interference. If anything Canadians are more readily accepting of government interference in personal affairs than Americans. If a dual-track homeschooling system were to result in inevitable encroachment on the right to homeschool without any interference you'd expect to see that more readily in a Canadian province than a US state.

It sounds like Alaska and Washington state have similar scenarios to my province. Perhaps they're anomalies, having endured some sort of ideological and political contamination as a result of their proximity to BC.


Miranda
 
#90 ·
If you don't want the government to expect "the same level of oversight" for all types of homeschoolers/unschoolers/charterschoolers, then LOBBY for your goal.

Many homeschool parents fought long and hard up here to change the HS allotment rules, and there are independent homeschool "watchdogs" all over who make sure the rules stay the way they want them.

It doesn't mean we have to fight against one another, or draw lines in the sand separating the homeschool community into "Stars Upon Thars" and "No Stars Upon Thars."

I thought this community was about building bridges and understanding...not about divisiveness and labels. Labels are for canned food.

We're supposed to be a bag of mixed nuts.


love, and peace please,
p
 
#91 ·
The New Zealand government gives parents money for homeschooling - I'm not sure how specifically it's allocated, but Mum used to use it for field trips, stationery, curricula and so on. It isn't a lot of money, and less for succeeding children (which makes me think they expect you to use it largely for curricula you're going to reuse, as second and third children don't get discounts on violin lessons or trips to the museum!). It isn't a lot of money - a pittance, really, when you consider how much it must cost the government to send the average kid to public school every year.

I know of some families who refuse to accept the money, either because they're anti-government or afraid of increased interventions. Personally, when the time comes I'll take it with a grin. I pay my taxes (well, OK, I usually get money back because I earn so little, but DH pays his taxes...), some of which go towards things I find useless, ridiculous or morally abhorrent; I'm not going to object if the Powers That Be give a little back so I can buy my kidling coloured pencils.

And in NZ, there's really very little interference (certainly compared to some of the horror stories on this thread!). You have to apply for an exemption (not sure if it's a once-off, yearly or every few years), describe a vague curriculum/plan of attack, and promise the kids will be taught "as regularly and as well" as at a public school. Which isn't hard, trust me.
Then an ERO supervisor MAY visit you every few years, but they tend to be both overworked and homeschooler-friendly, so if you make a good impression they tend to leave you be for years at a stretch. I was homeschooled from 13 up and NEVER checked up on; my little sisters have only had one ERO visit, most of which the guy spent eating muffins baked by one of those little sisters. Whether or not this lack of supervision is good or bad depends on your POV, but for anti-interventionists it's pretty low-key. No attendance records or similar oddness.

So I don't believe government assistance HAS to go hand-in-hand with draconian measures of control. Then again, there are some homeschoolers in NZ who believe the country's becoming very much a nanny state and homeschooling might be made illegal in the next 10-15 years. So... who knows. For now, it's pretty good.
 
#92 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by spruce View Post
If you don't want the government to expect "the same level of oversight" for all types of homeschoolers/unschoolers/charterschoolers, then LOBBY for your goal.

Many homeschool parents fought long and hard up here to change the HS allotment rules, and there are independent homeschool "watchdogs" all over who make sure the rules stay the way they want them.
I don't really see how the officials are going to keep us all straight unless they keep us separate on their end.

Quote:
It doesn't mean we have to fight against one another, or draw lines in the sand separating the homeschool community into "Stars Upon Thars" and "No Stars Upon Thars."
I don't know who is fighting against one another. Do you go to homeschool group functions and see signs that say "charter schoolers unwelcome"? Disagreement is not the same thing as persecution. The people we meet and hang with in the homeschool community use many different methods in educating their children. I just think that, from a legal standpoint, homeschoolers and public-school-at-homers are different. That doesn't mean we can't all play together.

Quote:
I thought this community was about building bridges and understanding...not about divisiveness and labels. Labels are for canned food.
What community, specifically, are you referring to?

Quote:
love, and peace please,
p
I'm not sure why you feel we're at war. I can disagree peacefully. Can't you?
 
#93 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
So I don't believe government assistance HAS to go hand-in-hand with draconian measures of control.
The problem is....one person's "Draconian" may not be another person's. I feel resentful that I have to deal with the school department AT ALL. There are several states in this country that have a "hands-off" policy for homeschoolers. I wish every state were like that.

Unfortunately, for every homeschooling-freedoms activist, there are dozens of others who comply, comply, comply with demands that aren't even required by law. They make it difficult for any progress to be made.
 
#94 ·
I've realized one main difference between my line of thinking and several on here boils down to our politic philosophies. Many have the position of "I pay taxes so I have a right to receive money from the government".
OTOH I am very much more on the Libertarian or Costitutionalist end of the political spectrum. I want the tax dollars to stay in my pocket from the beginning. I don't want the government taking my $$ and then deciding how much of it I am entitled to get back.

Quote:
I don't know who is fighting against one another. Do you go to homeschool group functions and see signs that say "charter schoolers unwelcome"? Disagreement is not the same thing as persecution. The people we meet and hang with in the homeschool community use many different methods in educating their children. I just think that, from a legal standpoint, homeschoolers and public-school-at-homers are different. That doesn't mean we can't all play together.
Well said
 
#95 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sha_lyn View Post
I've realized one main difference between my line of thinking and several on here boils down to our politic philosophies. Many have the positing of "I pay taxes so I have a right to receive money from the government".
OTOH I a very much more on the Libertarian or Costitutionalist end of the political spectrum. I want the tax dollars to stay in my pocket from the beginning. I don't want the government taking my $$ and then deciding how much of it I am entitled to get back.
I am of similar political persuasion, so you may be right.
 
#96 ·
Interestingly, I am 100% okay paying taxes to support public schools. I recognize that I am "lucky" enough to be able to homeschool by having the ability to survive on just my husband's income. I recognize that not all families are able to do that. (of course many could that choose not to- different things though)

I am quite alright not getting back my money and having it spent on public schools. It is in my best interest (and my children's best interest) to have good schools for the *majority* of the population. Do I think that the public schools are perfect? Of course not. I'm still content for them to spend my money to attempt to do the best they can to educate the masses.

-Angela
 
#97 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
I am of similar political persuasion, so you may be right.
And I'm not, but I still tend to agree with you on the funding aspect.

I don't want funding from our state, but I don't begrudge them the money I pay in property taxes. I benefit from the services that tax money pays for in many ways - do I wish our tax policies were a tad less regressive? Most certainly, but that's neither here nor there. For some children public schools fit a much needed role in their lives. I'm glad to contribute to that.

I know that others on the thread have says that it works in their country (or state) which is certainly intriguing...at the same time I sometimes wonder if we're so fundamentally screwed up nationally that somehow negates the possibility of it working here too.

Still at this point even though we could really use it I don't want it it nor do I want to report to anyone beyond what we already do. In our state we have very minimal requirements and I'm happy to help keep it that way. I don't think this has to be about one's political perspective anymore than we need to assume that homeschoolers are some sort of monolithic behemoth. Diversity in approaches and diversity in beliefs. I suppose the inability at coming to a consensus in this isn't any different from our national inability to come to a consensus on just about anything.
 
#98 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Interestingly, I am 100% okay paying taxes to support public schools. I recognize that I am "lucky" enough to be able to homeschool by having the ability to survive on just my husband's income. I recognize that not all families are able to do that. (of course many could that choose not to- different things though)
And then there are those families who homeschool without a full-time SAHP....like my own. DH works 40 hours a week and I average 32-35. And yes, we are just "surviving," too. I don't think of us as being "lucky". I see us as making sacrifices for what we think is best for our family.

Quote:
I am quite alright not getting back my money and having it spent on public schools. It is in my best interest (and my children's best interest) to have good schools for the *majority* of the population. Do I think that the public schools are perfect? Of course not. I'm still content for them to spend my money to attempt to do the best they can to educate the masses.

-Angela
So....if you believe the majority of schools are good, then why do you homeschool?

I homeschool because I oppose the school model. I believe that schools were implemented to create a standard citizenry and to get people used to doing what they're told. And from what I've seen, a high school diploma does not = educated. Schooling as we know it is not going away anytime soon, but I can't say I truly support dumping my money into a failed system.
 
#99 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
So....if you believe the majority of schools are good, then why do you homeschool?
That's not what she said. She said that she believes in good schools for the majority of the population. The term majority was referring not to "good schools," but to the portion of the population who cannot or will not choose to homeschool.

I'm of a similar mind. I am happy for my tax dollars to support capable, humane, effective public hospitals, even though it is my hope that my family will not need to use them. Ditto for schools.

Miranda
 
#100 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
That's not what she said. She said that she believes in good schools for the majority of the population. The term majority was referring not to "good schools," but to the portion of the population who cannot or will not choose to homeschool.


If the majority of the population are to attend good schools, wouldn't that mean the majority of schools would have to be good ones? I fail to see how the majority of the population can attend good schools if most of the schools are bad.

She's suggesting that tax dollars contribute to good schools, and implying that most schools are good ones because of funding. Not only do I disagree with this (in my area, tax dollars contribute to fat paychecks for DOE employees....the 2003 study showed that RI schools were ranked #37 in the nation, yet we rank #9 in teacher pay), but I don't understand why someone who believes that most schools are good would choose to keep their children out of school (unless they live in an area with bad schools, in which case the argument that her tax dollars contribute to good schools doesn't fly).
 
#101 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
So....if you believe the majority of schools are good, then why do you homeschool?

.
I took my son out of a great school to homeschool him (or, I dunno, I guess out of one charter school to another that happens to instruct out of my home and use me as free teaching labor). It was better for my son to be at home with me. Other kids were thriving there. A lot of homeschoolers don't homeschool because they believe school=bad.
 
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