Misogyny in homeschool groups - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 46 Old 07-02-2011, 08:14 PM
2xy
 
2xy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Also, and FWIW, the whole "creation vs. evolution" thing is a misnomer. Evolutionary theory does not even pretend to address how life began. It only addresses how living beings change over time.

 

I've come to realize over the years that the vast majority of people who shun evolutionary theory....do not even know what the theory proposes. They just parrot the same uninformed opinions that they hear from their uninformed friends and family. Ignorance begets ignorance.

 

Anyway, the thread was originally about a homeschool group. Personally, I could not stomach that sort of group and I'm sure its members and I would disagree on some pretty serious issues.

2xy is offline  
#32 of 46 Old 07-13-2011, 08:56 AM
 
SaveTheWild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: With the love of my life
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post

Also, and FWIW, the whole "creation vs. evolution" thing is a misnomer. Evolutionary theory does not even pretend to address how life began. It only addresses how living beings change over time.

 

I've come to realize over the years that the vast majority of people who shun evolutionary theory....do not even know what the theory proposes. They just parrot the same uninformed opinions that they hear from their uninformed friends and family. Ignorance begets ignorance.

 

Anyway, the thread was originally about a homeschool group. Personally, I could not stomach that sort of group and I'm sure its members and I would disagree on some pretty serious issues.

 

I am not sure what you mean by "evolutionary theory" here so I may be misunderstanding you.  Certainly science does address how life began, and the consensus is that the first simple life forms began the oceans and from there all life on earth eventually descended.  I suppose it is possible to say that scientists don't address what caused the big bang, but from there they have a pretty good idea of how things got from there to here.  The late stage evolution of early primates to humans is a part of that long long chain, but that chain doesn't stop at some point in time, it goes all the way back to the first life forms.

SaveTheWild is offline  
#33 of 46 Old 07-13-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Lillian J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

The way it worked in our support group was that if people wanted something different, they pretty much needed to create and offer it. Our wasn't a "co-op," though, but just a network of families who wanted a way of providing field trips, social events, and assorted class/workshop opportunities. Can you get together the kinds of things you want and offer them through the co-op? We had several little groups separate from the bigger one in which families could provide language, music, and creative drama play activities with people who had something they could lead/teach.   - Lillian

Lillian J is offline  
#34 of 46 Old 07-14-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Lisa1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

If you do not know much about creationism nor have you looked in depth at the creationist science books, I can see why you would feel this way. But, my experience has involved books made for public school and then some of the home school books. I have not looked at every book on the planet though obviously. The public school books would have 1 paragraph about a topic and then a bunch of junk about politics or how someone was contributing to their community or cutesy little unrelated stories. In the Apologia Elementary series, there would be references to God created this magnificant blah blah..but then go on in depth about distance from the sun, planets, details, pictures, activities, etc etc etc. Even in comparing RS4Kids Astronomy to Apologia, I definitely prefer Apologia. Plus, if you read up on creationism, you would know there is old world creationism, new world, and even intelligent design. Whether you believe in evolution or creationism, a chemical reaction happens the same way. But, if the book you are trying to learn from is talking about Clinton's trip to some other country and spends 1 page on an entire topic of chemistry, then it won't do you much good. 

 

Before I learned anything about creationism, and I opened one of those science books to the front page...I, too, said "this is not science, it just says God created it all" and then I shut the book. That was it. But, years later, after home schooling and spending a lot of time looking at these books much more closely and comparing and getting well beyond the first page, I have found many religious books to be better than the ones in the public schools. I have not used any high school level Christian books though so I cannot compare that.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWild View Post


OT but sorry, I can't let this go without some comment.  I presume by "evolutionist" you mean the science that the earth is billions of years old and that things on earth have changed over that time (i.e. the view shared by almost all scientists).  If you haven't found any material from "evolutionists" (i.e. scientists) that has good science content, then I think it is just a matter of not being exposed to it. There are plenty of good science materials out there:  all the educated Harvard and MIT trained PhDs have to have found material somewhere. 

 

If by "creationist" you are talking that the world was created in seven days, and the earth has been around for 6000 years and people roamed the earth with dinosaurs, then calling books about that world view "actual science matter" is a misnomer.  Believing in creationism as a religious world view despite science and in spite of scientific evidence is one thing.  Calling it "actual science" is quite another.



 

LisaDiane likes this.
Lisa1970 is offline  
#35 of 46 Old 07-14-2011, 01:34 PM
 
craft_media_hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: I'm diggin for fire!
Posts: 1,863
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh kittywitty, so sorry!

I'd probably not do it and look for socialization elsewhere, like see if your kids can take part in track at the ps or whatever. OR

Sign up, attend with your kids, take dd into the woodworking class and sit down with her the first day. If the instructor gives you a hard time just turn on the charm and say dd wants to build stuff shes already done all the AG thing. During Creationism take your olders out for lunch or a walk or whatever and then come back for the rest of the day. Dont ask for permission and just play dumb to the rules. *shrug* see if they kick you out which would be the worst case scenario, but at least you tried.

That is probably what I would try if you are very set on them going. I have had great luck with ignoring the rules and just slipping into things, personally smile.gif

Happy and in love with my family!
craft_media_hero is offline  
#36 of 46 Old 07-20-2011, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks, everyone. I would love to ignore the rules, but I have been strictly forbidden by the Board, so I'm sure I would be told not to come back. And the mothers are all very very nice, otherwise. I met them and they are wonderful. Our beliefs just really don't mesh.

Here is the program they are using:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/product/Answers-for-Kids-Bible-Curriculum,6508,185.aspx

Faith statement:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/about/faith

I don't believe a single thing on there. I still don't know what to do, but I really hate living here right now. greensad.gif

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
#37 of 46 Old 07-20-2011, 08:38 AM
 
philomom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 9,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

I'm finally going to ask the question I believe we've all been thinking: how did your family end up in this neighborhood so far away from people you feel comfortable with?


Whew, I agree. Everyone should find their tribe and get there. We did. We were literally "fish outta water" in the bad old bible thumping south... now we are loved just as we are in the liberal Northwest.
philomom is online now  
#38 of 46 Old 07-20-2011, 09:49 AM
 
ameliabedelia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I am
Posts: 2,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time.  Living in rural areas can be quite difficult and isolating.

 

Is it possible for you to join the group and not the coop classes?  Maybe you could set up park days or field trips which are neutral), where the kids could just play.  Or, perhaps start you own group of something your kids are interested in (like Lego club or an art club or nature/hiking club, something like that) and invite the families from the coop (and any other families you know).   That way your could still make friends without having the classes you dont' believe in.


Homeschooling mom to 4 joy.gif

 

My Home Remedies Website treehugger.gif

ameliabedelia is offline  
#39 of 46 Old 07-20-2011, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post


Whew, I agree. Everyone should find their tribe and get there. We did. We were literally "fish outta water" in the bad old bible thumping south... now we are loved just as we are in the liberal Northwest.

This is definitely how I feel! I would move but it's hard for my dh to find jobs in his field and we don't have savings or any money, really, so a lot of places have too high a cost of living. greensad.gif

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
#40 of 46 Old 07-20-2011, 08:20 PM
 
Lillian J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I wouldn't give up on finding others who are more like minded - it's unlikely that you're as alone as it may seem in that area, and other people might be feeling as discouraged. I met people many years after joining a large secular homeschooling group who had no idea such a thing was available, even though we ran ongoing notices in newspapers, including the family kind with all the county's children's activities, and had a widespread publicity campaign for our annual information meetings. I'll post a link here to an old post that lists how to beat the bushes for others: support groups - the NHEN link in it doesn't work any longer, but the others should help. All the best - I hope you find at least a few families you can connect with. One thing I've found is that if you build it, they will come - even having some family potlucks at your home or putting together some field trips can get things rolling.  - Lillian

Lillian J is offline  
#41 of 46 Old 07-21-2011, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
That is great, Lillian, thank you. I have one other friend in town who homeschools, and we've been trying for years to get anything together. I have talked to two other families who were secular or more open, but one decided to send her kids to public school, and another moved out of state!

I've had posters up for an AP or BF group for years and years and I've never had a single bite, too. It's just a small closed community. Tiny town where these sort of shenanigans are not welcome.

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
#42 of 46 Old 07-25-2011, 05:37 AM
2xy
 
2xy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWild View Post

 

I am not sure what you mean by "evolutionary theory" here so I may be misunderstanding you.  Certainly science does address how life began, and the consensus is that the first simple life forms began the oceans and from there all life on earth eventually descended.  I suppose it is possible to say that scientists don't address what caused the big bang, but from there they have a pretty good idea of how things got from there to here.  The late stage evolution of early primates to humans is a part of that long long chain, but that chain doesn't stop at some point in time, it goes all the way back to the first life forms.

 

I didn't say that science doesn't address how life began. The scientific study of how life began is called abiogenesis....not evolution. They are separate things altogether.

 

Evolutionary theory attempts to explain how the first life forms have adapted or changed to give us what we have today. Abiogenesis examines how the first life forms originated.
 

 

2xy is offline  
#43 of 46 Old 07-25-2011, 06:49 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I would opt for other kid classes. I know that can be an issue though if it is school based.Even scouts can be an issue if it is made up of kids that go to the same school. I would skip the homeschool group if my dd had to take the *girls* class.I am sure there is useful things taught,but I would want my dd to be able to take the wood calss too. Building is a useful skill for all!

 

I don't think I would want my kids taking the creation class.Yea,they could sit in and hear it,but then the others would disrespect them for not believing.Shoot,my ds got harrassed by classmates for not believing in Santa,so I can imagine when talk turns to *god* beliefs.

 

Hopefully your neighbors will be OK,but I doubt it with the go to church/save the soul.I am sure they will take every chance to bring up religion.What a shame that kids just can't play,and the adults just relax,chat,and eat some good home cooking! I just don't understand why people can not accept each other.

 

If there was nothing around useful for the kids then I guess we would be left with being each others support,staying home most times,and using the computer/internet for a social outlet. I might even consider moving if people were very negative towards me and the kids.

 

I hope you find something that works!

mattemma04 is offline  
#44 of 46 Old 07-25-2011, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
There are no other kids classes. I used to be a Girl Scout Leader. That failed. There is a huge beauracratic mixup right now and it is just a disaster. We started Boy Scouts, but the awesome leader quit after the first meeting and then they tried to push me to be a leader, but I refused to sign the affidavit of my belief in God.

Now if I could only find the *right* place to move that magically had a job for my dh available! lol.gif

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
#45 of 46 Old 07-25-2011, 08:59 AM
 
jocelyndale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 3,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Kitty, has your husband asked his colleagues for ideas?  Perhaps some of his coworkers homeschool or know of some low-on-the-radar secular groups.  Perhaps you can find some professor or grad student parents who share like-minded ideals.  You could flyer on campus, perhaps?

 

Part of settling where we did was the culture.  I knew that I needed many secular options for socializing, both for the two of us and any future children.  It did rule out many, many areas, but it was important.   

 

In this case, I think I'd commit to a longer drive to a larger city a couple times a week.  I would not put my child in faith-based instruction.  But these are my choices, not yours.  Best of luck.


Chasing DS since April 2007 and pumping for DD March 2013.

jocelyndale is offline  
#46 of 46 Old 07-26-2011, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
No, it's a very small college. We are the only homeschooling family. And only 1-2 other coworkers are not a part of the religious groups in the areas. It is a community college, too, so no grad students.

I am considering the drive to a larger area every few weeks. Gas is expensive and it would be a 120+ mile drive for us to go anywhere. I love Charlottesville, btw. We tried to move there, but dh did not get the jobs. greensad.gif

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off