Misogyny in homeschool groups - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 46 Old 06-14-2011, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I finally found a homeschooling group locally. Last year the selections looked great for the Co-op but we had a new baby & health issues, so we waited for this year. I got the schedule and first of all there is a Creation-based science class. We believe in Evolution and NOT Creation. No offense if you do, but this isn't a pick and choose co-op, but you take all or none and I'm not sure how to talk to my kids about this.

Also, there is woodworking for boys ONLY and American Girls for Girls. My oldest in this age range for the class likes woodworking and often makes things with me, but does NOT like American Girls. She would be miserable! But we have no other community or homeschool options or anything for hours away from us. I don't know what to do!

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#2 of 46 Old 06-14-2011, 08:10 AM
 
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It sounds like you are out of luck for this round. But you should get involved and speak up now as they plan for future co-op classes. I'm guessing from the current classes this is a conservative group and you are not. So it may take some "finesse" to get some classes that are not as conservative or stereotypical. The more you offer to be involved, the more you can influence.

Are there other moms in the group more of your thinking? Could you start a small break off group? Or just a short term co-op type class/playgroup  with a few kids that want to do something else?

 

I've found that there are usually other like minded moms when the majority is very conservative or religious or whatever. After getting to know the group in just a few meetings I've spoken to my "targets" LOL and found that they were very interested in doing some other things.

 

Finding homeschool support can be a challenge but it can be done with a little work, perseverance, and patience!

 

 


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#3 of 46 Old 06-14-2011, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We are very rural. I only know of one other family that will be joining that would agree with me here, and her son isn't in the same grade level. There are so few families, a break off group is probably impossible.

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#4 of 46 Old 06-15-2011, 07:28 AM
 
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I think I'd find out what exactly is "American Girls" going to entail.  They mean like the dolls and books?  Is it possible they are planning cool projects that will appeal to your dd but just have a weird title?  My niece's school had a theme for the year, pioneers or something, and they did a variety of projects throughout the year not all of which were "girly."  Of course it was a co-ed class so was striving for balance.  I wouldn't be keen on the Creationist angle but possibly their science will be weak enough or focusing on more modern science that it won't be too bad...


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#5 of 46 Old 06-15-2011, 09:27 AM
 
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We are near a big homeschooling town, but it's a 30-45 minute drive away, a drive that I can't do more than twice a week with the girls.  In our immediate area things are very conservative (so far, I have friends with babies that will be homeschooling).  

     There are other ways of connecting with people (and later form a coop).  4H might be filled with conservative families, but being run by the state extensions the activities are not based around religion.  And what needs to be learned?  If your coop will only offer woodworking to boys, then do some networking and find a woodworker that will let your family visit and play around.  This sounds tedious to do this for everything (there is a reason coops are so popular) but I would prefer it to joining such a conservative group, especially one that wants to teach what I believe is fiction to my kids as if it were fact.

     If some of the kids and parents are nice, then make friends and play together.  But the coop arrangement sounds unacceptable.  (Personally, I would take more isolation if those were my choices.  I would find the alternative unbearable.  Even if the "American Girls" class was really cool, I could not contain my irritation at what I see as BS.)


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#6 of 46 Old 06-15-2011, 04:24 PM
 
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What a crazy coincidence:  I was reading the Betsy Ross and the Silver Thimble book to the girls last night (it was Flag Day) and was disappointed that exactly this was written in the book:  "You do not know how to use Father's tools.  A saw is not for a little girl," and then the mom gives her a thimble... Seriously??? 

 

This is a toughy!  I've homeschooled my girls so far through preschool and we're starting HS Kindy this Fall.  Even without much external influence, one of my girls said, "Girls are nurses, boys are doctors" the other day.  I was stunned!  (When we asked her how she came up with this perspective, she said, "The Playmobil figures." (I come from a long line of career women--and had a very successful vocation of my own prior to seeing the brighter side of the world with my children as a stay at home Mom).  So, I think it's difficult (although doable) to balance all the external inputs which shape the children's viewpoints. 

 

I agree that it would be wise to ask questions around the American Girl curriculum.  I have done all I can (and been successful so far) to avoid the commercial American Girl toys.  I even "disappointed" relatives in NYC last winter when I refused an invitation to take the girls to whatever that tea party is.  I'm totally on your side.

 

Also, I have found an incredible artist who mentors young children (read:  sits down and does artsy things with the girls while I catch up on bills and other misc. house stuff).  I've specifically asked him to do a summer-long project with the girls building a treehouse in our backyard.  I WANT the girls to do woodworking (I once built a fence and found that incredibly gratifying).  Our art tutor uses wood with them in projects and will help them learn how to hammer and use other tools this summer.  Maybe you can find someone to do the same with your girls?  Even the instructor that has all boys in that woodworking class?  Our art instructor is a male and I always make sure they are in my peripheral vision/within earshot because I am that concerned about even "trusted" males around my kids...  Still, I hope you can find someone to do the woodshop activities.

 

Hang in there!  You'll find the right balance for your family!

 

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#7 of 46 Old 06-15-2011, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well we already do woodworking. So it's not for instruction so much as socialization that we are joining this. We are joining the groups so my kids can meet friends. We are very rural and secluded. We are "out of towners" so automatically excluded from a lot. There is NOTHING in this town-museums, anything. It's very clique-y, too, so I was hoping this way they could meet friends.

I did email to ask if she could join woodworking and they have not answered me. We've tried to join 4H for 3 years now. Last year they told us the forms to sign up would be ready Oct 1st. I showed up and they said classes started last month, so I was too late. And this was with me having stopped by the week before to make sure.

My dd is very much so a "tomboy" and has zero interest in American Girls. She's 10 years old and she went through that phase a loooong time ago. I also emailed about the Creation class and they use the Answers in Genesis program which I am very, very, 100% against. It is a young earth (4000 year old earth), literal 7 day program all about Creation. It's in the middle of the day. I asked if I could do they younger grades science class with my kids, but otherwise I don't know if they'd even be "allowed" to skip it because of the schedule. They still haven't emailed me about that, either.

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#8 of 46 Old 06-15-2011, 08:01 PM
 
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Wow.  It's such a shame that the community seems to be so closed!  Any chance you can integrate travel?  I noticed you have four children, so it might be difficult, I understand. 

 

I recently read a book which may be inspiring to you:  the story of the Colfaxs who lived remotely with four boys and three of them ended up going to Harvard (note: that's not my measure of "success" but it is impressive).  The book is:  Hard Times in Paradise and was very motivating to me.

 

 

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#9 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 04:45 AM
 
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Sounds like a group I would run, not walk, as fast as I can from! I don't share those same values at all- why can't girls take woodworking?? That's nonsense and it teaches the kids the wrong message. Also I would not pay for a class about American Girl dolls. I know there is "history" and stories to them, but that seems like a waste to me because I can easily teach that at home. I would rather them be involved in a class that is a bit more difficult to teach at home or in small groups (but better off in large groups). But of course I don't know much about co-ops, my kids are too little for school and I mostly just lurk here but what I do know is I would never be a part of a group that teaches a "creation-based" science class (which sounds like an oxy moron to me) and teaches woodworking to only boys as it would be clear to me that my ideals would not mesh with theirs.

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#10 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 05:03 AM
 
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I am sorry KIttywitty for all the troubles.

 

We are also in a small rural community and have to drive to a city to connect with like minded parents (it is not too far be pending on where events are held 25-35 minute drive).  We have attended a few local homeschooling activities where the group is mainly Christian based and have documents we would need to sign in order to officially join. These are statements of "belief" and they are NOT anything my husband or I would sign. So we focus more on making friends locally with kids who go to school and travel to where the secular homeschoolers are.

 

4-H can be cliquey too, but I would keep trying because that seems to be more in line with what your kids want. 

 

Honestly, if I have to compromise myself and beliefs  completely to join a group just to gain access to socialization for my kids, we are not doing it. And one other little tid bit. MY 5 y/o daughter was participating in a community gym class with other homeschoolers who were mostly Christian. She was making friends with this one little girl and having a great time. Then this little girl asks her about "Jesus" and my little girl responds something like "I don't believe in Jesus." And this little girl got so mad at her, raised her voice and told her she could be her friend then. My little girl was heart sick. She could not understand why someone who believed something differently still could not be her friend. It has been an opportunity for us to talk about how people think differently and how we have to respect people's choices AND how other should respect our choices...and what to do if they do not. Hard lessons to learn at such a young age.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. It is such a tough thing

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#11 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mamaupupup- I will check out that book. Thank you.

I just got an email back. They explained in a very long email that there will be absolutely no exceptions for us for either woodworking or the Creation science class. I don't even mind that it's a religious group, I don't mind my kids exposed to it. But it's the close-mindedness and misogyny that is irritating me.

On a related note, the neighbor kid that my kids play with told his family my ds does not believe in god and he was instructed to invite my children to his church (his mom would drive) to "save their souls". eyesroll.gif

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#12 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 07:25 AM
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I think you need to ask yourself exactly how much "community" you're likely to forge with people who think that way.

 

We homeschooled for three years in semi-rural Virginia and a year on a military base in Washington, DC. I know from experience that conservative Christian homeschool groups will quickly turn you out if you don't toe the line. All it takes is one of your kids to start talking about dinosaurs or Harry Potter, and you've become someone to shun. They also frequently require prospective members to sign a "statement of faith" before joining the group. Then you have to explain bigotry to your children, which sucks.

 

I know this still doesn't help you find playmates for your kids. I really don't know what to say about that, since I've never been in your shoes. Good luck to you.

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#13 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 09:07 AM
 
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Hmm...   Are there any after school programs/clubs for schooled kids in the area?  That's bizarre about the 4H, going a week before and then being told you were too late when you showed up to register.  Do you think you were being purposefully excluded or were they just inept?  Don't they have a website with sign up info?  I think I'd be writing a formal letter of complaint somewhere since that is a global organization.


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#14 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 10:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post

Mamaupupup- I will check out that book. Thank you.

I just got an email back. They explained in a very long email that there will be absolutely no exceptions for us for either woodworking or the Creation science class. I don't even mind that it's a religious group, I don't mind my kids exposed to it. But it's the close-mindedness and misogyny that is irritating me.

On a related note, the neighbor kid that my kids play with told his family my ds does not believe in god and he was instructed to invite my children to his church (his mom would drive) to "save their souls". eyesroll.gif


I wouldn't take part in the co-op.It would make me very upset that they were offering classes by gender. I would not want my dd to have to take a Creation science class just to be around other kids.

It sucks but I would keep looking for other social opportunities even if they are farther away.


Kim ~mom to one awesome dd (12)

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#15 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 10:58 AM
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Hmm...   Are there any after school programs/clubs for schooled kids in the area?  That's bizarre about the 4H, going a week before and then being told you were too late when you showed up to register.  Do you think you were being purposefully excluded or were they just inept?  Don't they have a website with sign up info?  I think I'd be writing a formal letter of complaint somewhere since that is a global organization.


When we lived in Virginia, I tried 2 or 3 times to make contact with the 4H club in that area, and could never get a reply. I gave up on them. This was like, ten years ago, but they didn't have a website. I had to contact them through the state department of agriculture or something like that.

 

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#16 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No 4H website- too rural and most people around here seem computer illiterate. It did feel like we were being excluded with the attitude, but with how disorganized everything else around here has been, I am not terribly surprised. We live about 2-3 blocks away, so we stopped in a lot to talk about 4H signup or get farming pamphlets when out on our daily walks. No other kids clubs, classes, or anything. Like I said, super rural and super exclusive. That or you drive 1.5-2 hours away.

Luckily there is no statement I have to sign per my faith, but their Statement is very specific. It does say that they "require that these beliefs be respected and not undermined during co-op classes". Which I respect, but I don't know if my keeping my kids out of the Creation class would "undermine" them. In fact, they just dropped off the papers and there is the YEC part at the bottom of their Statement of Faith.


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#17 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 01:40 PM
 
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This doesn't sound like any homeschool group I've ever heard of, since none of the ones I've encountered require participation in all activities. Regardless, it sounds like this group isn't the right fit for you. Since you joined an already existing group I wouldn't expect to try and change their focus or offerings. 

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#18 of 46 Old 06-16-2011, 05:20 PM
 
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Is that 4H office the only one?  4H is huge in this area.  Close to us are 3 counties and many 4H groups (we have a larger population more or less) and each county has its own office.  Some groups just work with horses or dogs.  Others are "community groups".  I've heard from experienced moms that the right club can be hard to find.  One mom said she switched twice before finding the right fit in a third group.  Our local group the next town over in the next county, but if that doesn't work (we do have a lot of Mennonites around, but also organic farmers and wannabe country suburbanites) we will try our own county.  The next town that way is twenty minutes away, but that would be acceptable.

     Actually, since the 4H program is run by ultimately by your state's land grant university, you can start your own 4H club.  (With whom, I don't know!)  You'll have to contact the state university extension instead of the county extension office if you are having trouble in your own county.


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#19 of 46 Old 06-17-2011, 08:39 AM
 
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Conservative Christians come in more than one flavor.  If this group is Committed-But-Harmless conservatives, I would be ok with it, recognizing that my children were attending mainly for socialization.  If the group is more along the lines of Patriarchalist Kooks, I might run away screaming.  For me, the distinction between the two is how they treat people (both insiders and outsiders) who disagree with their beliefs and customs.  Some of these communities are deeply dysfunctional.

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#20 of 46 Old 06-17-2011, 11:10 AM
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Conservative Christians come in more than one flavor.  If this group is Committed-But-Harmless conservatives, I would be ok with it, recognizing that my children were attending mainly for socialization.  If the group is more along the lines of Patriarchalist Kooks, I might run away screaming.  For me, the distinction between the two is how they treat people (both insiders and outsiders) who disagree with their beliefs and customs.  Some of these communities are deeply dysfunctional.


The fact that they won't allow the OP to opt-out of the Creation class is sort of a clue WRT how "others" are treated.

 

IMO, there is never anything "harmless" about religious indoctrination.

 

When my DS2 was little, I allowed him to spend time with some "nice" people in our neighborhood who eventually scared him half to death with talk of Hell and he had nightmares for several months.

 

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#21 of 46 Old 06-17-2011, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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SweetSilver-that's how it was where we used to live. Not here.

I contacted people that HS an hour away...nothing. Their kids have "graduated" or they put them in PS. greensad.gif

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#22 of 46 Old 06-18-2011, 07:30 PM
 
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If I had not already signed up and paid, I would choose not to participate.  I would rather have no IRL support than deal with "support" that comes at too high of a personal cost to me.  Having to constantly bite my tongue to hang out with people I philosophically have nothing in common with would be too much for me.

 

There is a conservative Christian homeschool group in our area that offers programs like this - boys only are offered classes that teach them "manly" skills and girls only are offered classes that teach them to be a good "helpmeet"...domestic skills only.   I feel very sorry for the children who are raised with such inflexible ideas about what is acceptable for a man or a woman to do or be interested in.  (Yes I realize not all conservative Christian groups are like this.)  I could not hang out with people who would sort kids by gender like this. 


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#23 of 46 Old 06-18-2011, 07:33 PM
 
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I'm finally going to ask the question I believe we've all been thinking: how did your family end up in this neighborhood so far away from people you feel comfortable with?


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#24 of 46 Old 06-19-2011, 08:44 AM
 
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My dh is an evolutionist and I am a creationist. SO...we would go with it anyway on the science. The creation science books usually are far better in content (actual science matter) than the evolutionist (which tends to have lots of side stories and watered down content). The only secular science books I have seen that I really like are Real Science 4 Kids. 

 

BUT, the sexism from boys to woodworking and girls so American Girl would bother me. However, that might just be a logistics issues. It might be that only girls would want the AG class so they have to put only boys in woodworking or it will overfill. I might ask.

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#25 of 46 Old 06-19-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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Think of all the creationists who have dealt with their children being in programs that have evolution science. Think of it as the same concept. They can go to school and at home, you just teach what you believe. 

 

I think it is best to be exposed to both lines of thinking. Otherwise, that person becomes an adult and they have never heard of the other concept. They will hear of the other concept eventually. And they will switch over then. I do not think I have ever heard of a creationist becoming an evolutionist, but I have heard of evolutionists becoming creationists. I never heard of creationism until I started home schooling. I had heard something generalized before "some radical Christians believe God made everything and there is no science." That was the extent of what I heard. So when I learned the truth about creationism and what it means, I went over. I also wondered why I was told things about creationism (and not told) that were not right. IF I had been told all about Creationism at a young at, accurately, and reasons to disagree with it, maybe I would not have switched over. So regardless, I think it is good to accurately educate your child on all sides. Just like you would about your religious beliefs, moral beliefs, etc. On my children, since they get both sides, but it is not presented with any sort of slant (because of dh and I having different beliefs) half the kids seem to be in to the big bang and evolution and the other half is not. It is not really an emotional issue here. I believe in religious freedom big time so I love and accept my children regardless.

 

Oddly, on the sexism thing, that really bothers me. But, it turns out, it is not a huge issue. My daughter, who went to a religious co-op, is planning a career and not really any children. She is planning a career in math and science and was raised on creation science by me and earns in the upper 90's percentiles on science. She always earns 99th in math on the ITBS. So, unless there is a big issue (if my daughter did not like American Girl but really wanted to do woodworking, I would be really bothered, but if she wanted to do American Girl anyway, I would not be bothered). My son, who is close in age to my daughter, and went to public schools with public school textbooks, gets maybe 70's and 80's in the percentiles in science and maths. Those public school textbooks are nuts. Both of my teens went to a public school this past year and both took PreAP Chemistry. The only science my daughter had had was creation (and unschooled stuff) and my son had been in public school his whole life. My son was a 10th grader this past year and my daughter a 9th grader. Chem is a 10th grade class. My daughter earned a high A in the class, my son barely squeaked by with a low 70 for his final grade. There is not an aptitude difference. Both are equally smart. It is just all those years in public school, they spent tons of their time on TAKs test review and such. So there was not much time spent on actual academic subjects. Plus, when they did cover something, it was full of non science and math stuff (like in math, journalling about feelings about the subject, writing about community service, making robots out of card stock, making posters of greeting cards, literally, that sort of thing).

 

OK..I am totally off topic here..but..Good luck!

 

 

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#26 of 46 Old 06-19-2011, 09:11 AM
 
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I should add that the Christian co-op we were in did not limit courses could take by gender. There were boys in the sewing class and my daughter took the Lego class.So maybe we had less trouble? There will always be people out there who have ideas we do disagree with our ideas. I have had people tell me that my daughter should not be allowed to take high school math and science. That is rare and not a consensus of the Christian home school group I was in. But I have also had people tell me all Christians are cult members and no one should ever have more than 1 child. So it comes from every direction. There were people in the secular group saying that 9/11 never happened, it was all orchestrated and theatrics done by Bush. In fact, we tried both the local secular group where we live and the local Christian group and found the secular group too radical. But, I know if we lived in the city instead of a suburb that is far out, there were secular groups that were more normal and middle of the group and I am betting there were probably more Christian groups that were more radical. 

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#27 of 46 Old 06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
 
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I wouldn't do the co-op.  I don't like how those two classes are gender specific.  I am a non-Christian living in the Bible belt and would not want my young kids in a science class like that.  Most of the kids my kids know are public school kids.  I have no issues with my kids playing with Christian kids, but most groups have something against my kids joining their group.  Even the one that says I'm allowed to join, then have ways of allienating people like me.  So we stay away from the only co-op in the area. 

 

Instead, my kids do sports through the local rec center.  We belong to the Y where they love the kids playrooms and kids classes.  They play with neighborhood kids.  They do scouts.  As a result, we know very few other homeschoolers, but my kids know a lot of other kids.  Living in an area where you feel excluded doesn't mean you have to be alone on your island.  It just means to look at more than the homeschooling community for the socialization.

 

*There is a secular group in my area but the group is spread out over a huge area - probably 2 hours from one side to the other,  and rarely meets up, since we're so spread out.  I'd guess that 95% of the secular group are Christians - but they're Christians who don't care if their kids play with someone of *gasp* another religion.  Some belong to Christian groups as well.  But for the most part, they don't.  They're Christians who don't get caught up in the holier than thou attitude.  They're accepting.   But since they're so spread out, it's more of on-line support than anything else.

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#28 of 46 Old 06-24-2011, 09:20 AM
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I'm wondering why the classes offered this year are so diff from those last year. Did the group members change, did a few families more like yours drop out, and the more conservative fams got to pick all the topics? Could you find those other families?

 

While it is one thing to be respectful and open to other viewpoints, it is impossible and unfair to tell your child they must not share their own views during this time with friends.

 

This sounds really difficult KW. How old are your kids and have you tlked to them about this situation? Using the computer to connect with local fams is a huge part of my life, but your 'community' doesn't have that either.

 

I agree with the other post, what about doing after school programs? They are not religion-specific, and would hopefully help your kids at least have fun with peers, even if they are not homeschoolers. I know, it's not ideal, in a variety of ways, but it sounds like, for now, the homeschoolers you DO know are not the ones you WANT to know, you know? So maybe just aim to meet some cool kids and families, (who are busy during the day.)


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#29 of 46 Old 06-24-2011, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

The creation science books usually are far better in content (actual science matter) than the evolutionist (which tends to have lots of side stories and watered down content).


OT but sorry, I can't let this go without some comment.  I presume by "evolutionist" you mean the science that the earth is billions of years old and that things on earth have changed over that time (i.e. the view shared by almost all scientists).  If you haven't found any material from "evolutionists" (i.e. scientists) that has good science content, then I think it is just a matter of not being exposed to it. There are plenty of good science materials out there:  all the educated Harvard and MIT trained PhDs have to have found material somewhere. 

 

If by "creationist" you are talking that the world was created in seven days, and the earth has been around for 6000 years and people roamed the earth with dinosaurs, then calling books about that world view "actual science matter" is a misnomer.  Believing in creationism as a religious world view despite science and in spite of scientific evidence is one thing.  Calling it "actual science" is quite another.

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#30 of 46 Old 06-27-2011, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm finally going to ask the question I believe we've all been thinking: how did your family end up in this neighborhood so far away from people you feel comfortable with?


Our family is an hour away. And we took a big pay jump to move back here. The last two places we lived were great in many ways, but our pay was not sufficient. My dh is a Chemistry Professor, so jobs are hard to come by anywhere decent. greensad.gif
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My dh is an evolutionist and I am a creationist. SO...we would go with it anyway on the science. The creation science books usually are far better in content (actual science matter) than the evolutionist (which tends to have lots of side stories and watered down content). The only secular science books I have seen that I really like are Real Science 4 Kids. 

 

BUT, the sexism from boys to woodworking and girls so American Girl would bother me. However, that might just be a logistics issues. It might be that only girls would want the AG class so they have to put only boys in woodworking or it will overfill. I might ask.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree here. I have Elemental Science, RS4K, REAL Science, Joy of Science, Basher, and many more. I also am a scientist and former Lab worker (Andrology). My husband is a Chemist and also professor. Creationism, no offense, is not science. It is religion. I have not found "evolutionist" texts to be watered down. I have found the "Creationist" ones to be watered down, sidestepping or awkward, though.
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Think of all the creationists who have dealt with their children being in programs that have evolution science. Think of it as the same concept. They can go to school and at home, you just teach what you believe. 

 

I think it is best to be exposed to both lines of thinking. Otherwise, that person becomes an adult and they have never heard of the other concept. They will hear of the other concept eventually. And they will switch over then. I do not think I have ever heard of a creationist becoming an evolutionist, but I have heard of evolutionists becoming creationists. I never heard of creationism until I started home schooling. I had heard something generalized before "some radical Christians believe God made everything and there is no science." That was the extent of what I heard. So when I learned the truth about creationism and what it means, I went over. I also wondered why I was told things about creationism (and not told) that were not right. IF I had been told all about Creationism at a young at, accurately, and reasons to disagree with it, maybe I would not have switched over. So regardless, I think it is good to accurately educate your child on all sides. Just like you would about your religious beliefs, moral beliefs, etc. On my children, since they get both sides, but it is not presented with any sort of slant (because of dh and I having different beliefs) half the kids seem to be in to the big bang and evolution and the other half is not. It is not really an emotional issue here. I believe in religious freedom big time so I love and accept my children regardless.

 

Oddly, on the sexism thing, that really bothers me. But, it turns out, it is not a huge issue. My daughter, who went to a religious co-op, is planning a career and not really any children. She is planning a career in math and science and was raised on creation science by me and earns in the upper 90's percentiles on science. She always earns 99th in math on the ITBS. So, unless there is a big issue (if my daughter did not like American Girl but really wanted to do woodworking, I would be really bothered, but if she wanted to do American Girl anyway, I would not be bothered). My son, who is close in age to my daughter, and went to public schools with public school textbooks, gets maybe 70's and 80's in the percentiles in science and maths. Those public school textbooks are nuts. Both of my teens went to a public school this past year and both took PreAP Chemistry. The only science my daughter had had was creation (and unschooled stuff) and my son had been in public school his whole life. My son was a 10th grader this past year and my daughter a 9th grader. Chem is a 10th grade class. My daughter earned a high A in the class, my son barely squeaked by with a low 70 for his final grade. There is not an aptitude difference. Both are equally smart. It is just all those years in public school, they spent tons of their time on TAKs test review and such. So there was not much time spent on actual academic subjects. Plus, when they did cover something, it was full of non science and math stuff (like in math, journalling about feelings about the subject, writing about community service, making robots out of card stock, making posters of greeting cards, literally, that sort of thing).

 

OK..I am totally off topic here..but..Good luck!

 

 

So if I don't teach my kids Creationism then they will turn into Fundamentalist Christians who are into Creationism? What? Because I was raised Jewish and never taught a literal Creationism viewpoint and I sure am not a Creationist!!! My kids know what other students believe. I have no problem with exposure to different religions and viewpoints. I DO have a problem with forced indoctrination of religion, though.
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I'm wondering why the classes offered this year are so diff from those last year. Did the group members change, did a few families more like yours drop out, and the more conservative fams got to pick all the topics? Could you find those other families?

 

While it is one thing to be respectful and open to other viewpoints, it is impossible and unfair to tell your child they must not share their own views during this time with friends.

 

This sounds really difficult KW. How old are your kids and have you tlked to them about this situation? Using the computer to connect with local fams is a huge part of my life, but your 'community' doesn't have that either.

 

I agree with the other post, what about doing after school programs? They are not religion-specific, and would hopefully help your kids at least have fun with peers, even if they are not homeschoolers. I know, it's not ideal, in a variety of ways, but it sounds like, for now, the homeschoolers you DO know are not the ones you WANT to know, you know? So maybe just aim to meet some cool kids and families, (who are busy during the day.)

The group grew big enough that they formed a Board to vote on the subjects and rules. I did meet many of them this past friday at a curriculum sale and they were very nice. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to bash them, by any means. But I was just trying to feel out ways to get around these areas or see if I was overreacting. My 6 yo would have a ball. There's a Magic School Bus science class instead of Creation for her age group. But I can't leave my 9 & 10 year olds alone at home, KWIM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWild View Post


OT but sorry, I can't let this go without some comment.  I presume by "evolutionist" you mean the science that the earth is billions of years old and that things on earth have changed over that time (i.e. the view shared by almost all scientists).  If you haven't found any material from "evolutionists" (i.e. scientists) that has good science content, then I think it is just a matter of not being exposed to it. There are plenty of good science materials out there:  all the educated Harvard and MIT trained PhDs have to have found material somewhere. 

 

If by "creationist" you are talking that the world was created in seven days, and the earth has been around for 6000 years and people roamed the earth with dinosaurs, then calling books about that world view "actual science matter" is a misnomer.  Believing in creationism as a religious world view despite science and in spite of scientific evidence is one thing.  Calling it "actual science" is quite another.


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