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#31 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 06:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

So I think I do actively support these things. 


Yes, you certainly do, and I never said otherwise.  My point was that tax dollars alone do not equal "support" IMO.  

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#32 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 06:16 AM
 
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Well here, I believe the schools get more money for each child in school each day. And why public school parents are asked to bring their child to school for even part of the day if they have appointments, etc. So yes they get money (from taxes) in general, but then they get more for each child who's in a seat, each day.  Now the balance of what they get vs. what they spend? Who knows. 



yes, here too (minus the appointment thing), but  that only works on the short term and at the micro level.

 

I believe the government gives about 7000 per child for each attendee to the school here.  Whether or not that turns into a net gain for the school depends on many factors.

 

1.  Classrooms have pupil limits.  For grade 3 and under around here it is 23-25.  If two grade 1's enrol, the 7000 per child is no where near going to cover the cost of an extra teacher.  ditto bussing if it has to be added on

 

2.  if your child has special needs and requires an aide (even part time) once again - the money is not going to cover it.

 

Financially, I think schools receive the most dollars from easy kids and schools with low enrollment.

 

lastly, all of this takes place at the micro level (i.e an individual school) because the Ministry o Educations budget is unlikely to change because of an influx of homeschooler.  If the budget is 200 000 000, that is not going to change because 10 000 former HSers enrol.  Everyone will actually be spread thinner.

 

 

 

 

 

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#33 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 06:23 AM
 
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One more point:  I always get a little skivved out when I read people say "we support public education so we are going to send our kids there, no matter what" or "Ds is having ongoing problems, but we really support public education so are reluctant to move him."  Children should go where they best thrive (which may or may not be public school) and support for public school be danged.  You can support institutions in other ways that through attendance.  Needs of children over causes (a public school can be a cause) first. 

 

 

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#34 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 06:33 AM
 
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. And why public school parents are asked to bring their child to school for even part of the day if they have appointments, etc. 

 

 

In my state this is not about money but "time" you must attend a certain number of days per state law- that is why we even dismiss for bad weather at a certain time so the "whole" day counts

 

it maybe about funding in certain state 

 

 

 

 

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 I always get a little skivved out when I read people say "we support public education so we are going to send our kids there, no matter what" or "Ds is having ongoing problems, but we really support public education so are reluctant to move him."  Children should go where they best thrive (which may or may not be public school) and support for public school be danged.  You can support institutions in other ways that through attendance.  Needs of children over causes (a public school can be a cause) first. 

I agree with this too! think you ment changed?

 

"support" is a really subjective word


 

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#35 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 06:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

One more point:  I always get a little skivved out when I read people say "we support public education so we are going to send our kids there, no matter what" or "Ds is having ongoing problems, but we really support public education so are reluctant to move him."  Children should go where they best thrive (which may or may not be public school) and support for public school be danged.  You can support institutions in other ways that through attendance.  Needs of children over causes (a public school can be a cause) first. 

 

I agree, but to be fair I've seen similar things said by those that homeschool.  Sometimes people get so married to the idea of one particular type of education being better that they lose sight of what's best for their children.  That's not specific to those who use public or private or those who homeschool.  

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#36 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:08 AM
 
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He he he watch it.  Some people will get very angry over that thought!  I think I tried to explain that some homeschoolers were worse off before and I got my pee pee slapped.  Seriously I know numerous adult aged former HSers that can hardly read and were not too pleased with mommy dearests Idea of a great education.  I was homeschooled as well, but my mom got me a tutor when I needed help. 
 

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Quote:

 

I agree, but to be fair I've seen similar things said by those that homeschool.  Sometimes people get so married to the idea of one particular type of education being better that they lose sight of what's best for their children.  That's not specific to those who use public or private or those who homeschool.  



 

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#37 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

I agree with this too! think you ment changed?

 

"support" is a really subjective word



To clarify - do you think I meant change when I said support?

 

If so, the answer is yes.

 

Support is a subjective word.

 

What have we got on this thread?  Financial support, support through attendance (although that one might be chucked out) and support through volunteering.  

 

A little OT, but this question make me think of those "we support our troops" ribbons.  They always make me a little uneasy.  I do not support our military involvement in the Middle East.  I very much want troops to come home alive, though, and receive proper services and help.  So - do I support our troops?  Some would say yes and some would say no.  

 

When I say I support xyz I usually mean I am trying to positively effect change.

 

Back to the hospital example (which I find cleaner than the school example)

 

If I say I support the hospital and I engage in supportive activities (such as volunteering, fundraising, patient advocacy, etc) it is definitely because I am trying to effect positive change.  On occasion people see a program they like exactly as it is and support it (through money or time) to keep it running, but that not what I usually mean when I say support. 

 

OTOH, I am Girl Guide leader.  I have no real problems with the organisation that I am trying to change.  However, there are 2 volunteers in town, if I resigned there would be no Girl Guide unit in town.  So…I am not trying to change things, but things would change if i did not volunteer.

 

When I talk of support I usually mean "I am a positive force in…"

 

Back to schools - I have both fund raised (reluctantly) and volunteered (much less reluctantly) in schools. I am Ok with schools  existing and have no issues with my tax money going towards them.   However, I do not think I have ever said "I support schools."   I have too many issues with some of the founding principals of schools and how they are run (painting with broad strokes, here) to say I support them.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#38 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:27 AM
 
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HERE- 

 

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Children should go where they best thrive (which may or may not be public school) and support for public school be danged.

 

 

Quote:
To clarify - do you think I meant change when I said support?

 


 

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#39 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:

 

I agree, but to be fair I've seen similar things said by those that homeschool.  Sometimes people get so married to the idea of one particular type of education being better that they lose sight of what's best for their children.  That's not specific to those who use public or private or those who homeschool.  



True.  I think parents do not always realise they making a choice for a cause when they do it.  Lives are messy.  You can believe schools should be dismantled, have a kid who might thrive in school, but know the local schools are awful.  Are you keeping your kid home because it is your cause or because the local school is horrible?

 

Same is true from the other side.  You might believe kids belong in school, yet have a child who is struggling despite attempts to fix it, but most of your kids friends are at school.  Are you keeping kids in school because that is where you believe they should be or because the pros might outweigh the cons?  so hard to know!

 

At the end of the day, though, I think there are parents (not a huge amount) who are so em-meshed in a cause that they do not see *their* kids.  

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#40 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:33 AM
 
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HERE- 

 

 

 

 



Ha!  And after i made a huge post about it smile.gif

 

I meant "danged"  but "darned" would work as well.

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#41 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 07:41 AM
 
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Oh I honestly think it's a pretty huge amount.  This is just my experience.  We had to test every year in Washington and almost half the kids that would show up for the test would end up failing it.  The test was there to help gauge where the HSers were in learning.  I don't know if anything was done about all the kids that failed.  Honestly they failed because they couldn't read.  We were in a big HS community and my mom turned in lots of moms and more recently a friend of hers.  She had her 16 yr old daughter while her mom was on vacation and the kid couldn't read for SHYTE!  Mom did some digging and all the kids were in the same boat.  I'm not sure why they didn't feel it was necessary to help their kids learn to read.  However they did it for the cause in my opinion.  It was a big cluster of look how great I am my kids will not be tarnished by society.  Nope instead they'll be pissed when they can't even fill out an application.  but hey if you're going to be a farm hand for life... go for it.
 

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post



True.  I think parents do not always realise they masking a choice for a cause when they do it.  Lives are messy.  You can believe schools should be dismantled, have a kid who might thrive in school, but know the local schools are awful.  Are you keeping your kid home because it is your cause or because the local school is horrible?

 

Same is true from the other side.  You might believe kids belong in school, yet have a child who is struggling despite attempts to fix it, but most of your kids friends are at school.  Are you keeping kids in school because that is where you believe they should be or because the pros might outweigh the cons?  so hard to know!

 

At the end of the day, though, I think there are parents (not a huge amount) who are so em-meshed in a cause that they do not see *their* kids.  



 

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#42 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 08:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

We were in a big HS community and my mom turned in lots of moms and more recently a friend of hers.  She had her 16 yr old daughter while her mom was on vacation and the kid couldn't read for SHYTE!  Mom did some digging and all the kids were in the same boat.  


Not discounting your experience, but it flies in the face of overall statistics, and in the face of my experience. In general homeschoolers score considerably higher in literacy and math than their public-schooled counterparts. 

 

The only functionally illiterate adults I know went through the public school system. 

 

Miranda


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#43 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 08:37 AM
 
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No, it's cool.  It's what you know and what I experienced.  What I'm getting at is HS isn't always the best answer.  Some parents are just idiots and honestly need someone outside the home to teach their kids.  Some schools are fantastic and offer more services than a HS parent could garner for their child.  That doesn't discount the good experiences but honestly you really can not say HS is always best.  Nor can you really argue that HSers are all intellectual beings.  A lot of them are stunted by their HS experience in one way or another as well as in Public schools.  Both can be good both can be bad.  I'm highlighting the bad due to my experiences.  Personal experiences.  And honestly the parents that F-ed up their HS kids by not actually teaching them should get to feel the embarrassment and shame their kids are now feeling as adults. 

 

Parents that were not HS and HS their kids do not really know how bad it can be.  Those that were HS successfully have a better understanding of what is needed. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

 


Not discounting your experience, but it flies in the face of overall statistics, and in the face of my experience. In general homeschoolers score considerably higher in literacy and math than their public-schooled counterparts. 

 

The only functionally illiterate adults I know went through the public school system. 

 

Miranda



 

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#44 of 44 Old 02-02-2012, 04:35 AM
 
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ooooo

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