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#1 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am struck by claims that it's supporting a public school to send one's kid there.  Isn't that just taking up a chunk of tax money that could go to other kids?  Isn't it most supportive to pay one's taxes while not actually drawing money off the school system?

 

I'm not saying it's "unsupportive" to use public schools, because of active parents volunteering and such ... except when compared to actually not using them.

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#2 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Schools get money allocated to them based on attendance, so some people find it unfair to not send any child to public school because that is one less child therefore one less payout. Though with overcrowding etc I am not sure I really can agree with that mindset. 


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#3 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
 
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But one less payout still means more money in the government education coffers. Which, overall, increases the funding available to the system. If 20,000 homeschoolers suddenly entered the school system in a particular state or province, you can bet that the per-capita funding to schools would drop. The size of the pie doesn't change when you have to slice it into more pieces: the pieces would have to get smaller. Sure, an individual school might get 426 pieces of pie, rather than 422, but the pieces will eventually end up being smaller.

 

And of course that one more payout is only an advantage to the school if your child, if enrolled, would cost less than that amount to educate. My children are quirky kids with unusual needs. I don't doubt that they cost more than average to educate. If the school gets $6,000 to educate them, but my kids require specialized evaluations, support, individualized programs and services that cost $8,000 a year, they'll be a net drain on the system.

 

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#4 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
 
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my state gives no options - taxes support schools

 

doesn't matter if you use it or not - you pay

 

low enrollment at a large school cost tax payers even more! the building and the support still needs to be maintained

 

we do not get ANY financial support if you do not go public (ex. refund for private or reimbursement, etc.)

no opt out

no breaks

nothing


 

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If 20,000 homeschoolers suddenly entered the school system in a particular state or province, you can bet that the per-capita funding to schools would drop.

 

 

really depends on the state and how they fund their schools

 

my state has a very large HS population and in certain areas high private school attendance but that really does not factor into the public school funding here - most of the public school funding is property tax (and renters pay too) so certain areas are swimming in lots of money and everyone does pay 


 

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#6 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

my state has a very large HS population and in certain areas high private school attendance but that really does not factor into the public school funding here - most of the public school funding is property tax (and renters pay too) so certain areas are swimming in lots of money and everyone does pay 


But regardless of where the funding comes from, if all those homeschoolers suddenly entered the system, the total cost of providing public schooling would go up considerably. Schools would have to be built. A thousand teachers would have to be hired. Unless there's some magic way for the total funding pool to increase alongside enrolment, the amount available per student is going to drop.

 

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#7 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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Our schools are funded by taxes and then by kids needs.  There are different Tiers.  We're currently at Tier 1 which gives us more funding.  60% of the students utilize the reduced and free lunch program.  We're also bilingual and have a huge military presence.  I fill out paper work everyear that states I word on DoD grounds.  Which also gives the school more money.  I volunteer and particepate in the fundraisers as well.  That money goes to fieldtrips and the kids really need those in my opinion.  I think the schools need more money.  And I feel the teachers do too.  I spend a lot of time there and there are a lot of teachers that fill the role of teacher, friend and parent.  Not all of them but quite a few of them. 

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#8 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 10:56 AM
 
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Unless there's some magic way for the total funding pool to increase alongside enrolment, 

 

 

it is in already and if the population increases do does the taxes - my state does not look at an area and say this many HS so we don't need this money---with the EXCEPTION of a few counties that are HEAVY Amish (they have their own schools) and Mennonites (they also have their own private schools and most HS) they are much larger vs the public school need

 

public schools in my state are based on size of student population (that means HS that never use the public schools) these are counted into the mix - still is assessed based on property value - you have land and now build a home - you pay more=the school gets more, regardless if you have a child or not (many who retire to my state have a fit about this!) - you can have a area with lots of $$$ homes and not many children and the school district gets the $$$$--magic!

 

ETA- my state allows public schools to "keep" the test scores/records of non-attending students (HSers not private) so they look better on paper and get additional state/federal funding on top of tax money

 

 

 


 

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#9 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

it is in already and if the population increases do does the taxes 


I'm not explaining myself very well. Let's assume a state with a population of 10 million, generating 10 billion in education-related taxes to fund the schooling of 1 million public-schooled children. (I'm just making up numbers here, to illustrate the math.) The population of 10 million includes 100,000 kids who are not currently attending school because they're homeschooling. If those children suddenly decide to enter the school system, the school system now has to fund 1.1 million kids, rather than the 1 million they had to fund before. And the pocket that school system is dipping into to pay for that schooling has not become any deeper.

 

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#10 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 12:07 PM
 
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maybe you don't get what I am saying - 

 

my HSed child is already budgeted into the system, regardless if they attend or not - the funding is there- they are not counted out, nor are private school children - ex the area says they have 100 children - the school is set up for 100 students, regardless of only 75 attend and if the population grows to 125- the extra 25 are paying because the area is generating more taxes by having high property taxes - if you add on an additional bedroom you pay more taxes (= the ability to higher more teachers)- we even mandate how many people can live in a dwelling so they know the population and adjust the taxes---public school that have an area where a high population use private school make out better


 

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#11 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

maybe you don't get what I am saying - 

 

my HSed child is already budgeted into the system, regardless if they attend or not - the funding is there- they are not counted out, nor are private school children - ex the area says they have 100 children - the school is set up for 100 students, regardless of only 75 attend and if the population grows to 125- the extra 25 are paying because the area is generating more taxes by having high property taxes - if you add on an additional bedroom you pay more taxes (= the ability to higher more teachers)- we even mandate how many people can live in a dwelling so they know the population and adjust the taxes---public school that have an area where a high population use private school make out better


Maybe different areas do it differently.  In OUR area, the school has X number of enrolled students.  They get Y dollars per enrolled student.  Therefore, since my child is not enrolled, they don't receive money because of my child.  MY taxes don't change because of my choice, but the school is affected.  

 

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#12 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 01:58 PM
 
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it is the area, you pay school taxes here if you never had a kid


 

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#13 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:29 PM
 
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Oh, okay, that not what I thought at all! So the funding ear-marked for your kids is actually dispensed to the schools, even if your children aren't attending? Schools in your area hire teachers for 100 students and provide library books and PE equipment and classrooms for 100 students even if there are only 75 attending? Sounds like a good reason for a family of school-children to encourage all their neighbours to homeschool, so that there are more resources for their own kids.

 

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#14 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:32 PM
 
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How would there be more resources for homeschooled kids?  While I was homeschooled I could go to the school and take elective courses.  However I do not recall gov't funding from taxes going to HS. 
 

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Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

Oh, okay, that not what I thought at all! So the funding ear-marked for your kids is actually dispensed to the schools, even if your children aren't attending? Schools in your area hire teachers for 100 students and provide library books and PE equipment and classrooms for 100 students even if there are only 75 attending? Sounds like a good reason for a family of school-children to encourage all their neighbours to homeschool, so that there are more resources for their own kids.

 

Miranda



 

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#15 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:38 PM
 
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No, more resources for the schooled children.

 

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#16 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:42 PM
 
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I never got the impression people meant that they were supporting the school from a financial prospective but rather from more of an involvement perspective.  If everyone with the means sent their child to private school or homeschooled, well there would be a big socioeconomic and educational gap there.  

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#17 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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I do not always think they are talking about finances when they talk about supporting the local school and sending kids there.

 

Sometimes they mean they support free, public local education in general and are showing this by using it.

 

Sometimes they mean that parents are a valuable resource to schools and all school kids - so they send their kid there, volunteer there, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I do not always think they are talking about finances when they talk about supporting the local school and sending kids there.

 

Sometimes they mean they support free, public local education in general and are showing this by using it.

 

Sometimes they mean that parents are a valuable resource to schools and all school kids - so they send their kid there, volunteer there, etc.

 



Yeah, that's what I meant to say.  lol.gif  I'm not feeling particularly articulate right now.  

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#19 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Everybody who owns real property pays local school taxes.  Everybody who pays income taxes pays toward state and fed education departments also. 

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I have no problem with this.

 

My taxes go to all sorts of things and education is not the worst of them.

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Originally Posted by pigpokey View Post

Everybody who owns real property pays local school taxes.  Everybody who pays income taxes pays toward state and fed education departments also. 



 I think most people know this.  What was this in reference to? 

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#22 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 06:23 PM
 
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I support our local fire department, ambulance service and search & rescue team ... even though I hope I never need their services. When people suggest that "supporting" something requires using it, I point out this parallel.

 

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#23 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 06:23 PM
 
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Sounds like a good reason for a family of school-children to encourage all their neighbours to homeschool, so that there are more resources for their own kids.

 

I don't get this?

that would change nothing in my state, the Ed lobby would never let that happen

 

 

how the taxes are done is just a program (that IMO will NEVER change here) it is hung out each year as a carrot for voters and there is no reason why they would even want to change it- it's a winner for the state in the long run

 

 

we have NO resources for HSed children in my state- nothing this is mandated

 

if is solely up to each district to decide what IF any thing they would offer a HS child (ex to play sports or do music at the PS)- they are not required to do anything except offer free testing 

 

 

you can not mandate a set way to "educate" in my state - if you want to HS this month fine- if you turn around next month and say you want your child in PS- you go right in- there is not real way of the PS to know the exact number of students it will have at any given time- throw in a large quarter of my state is transient there would be no way to not offer complete services at the PS level

 

we certainly do not get reimbursement for not using the PS (I did know someone who's state did that) but no way is that going to happen here!


 

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Also if funding went to HS from the state, then the state would have more say in how you HS. 

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#25 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 07:17 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

I support our local fire department, ambulance service and search & rescue team ... even though I hope I never need their services. When people suggest that "supporting" something requires using it, I point out this parallel.

 

Miranda

 

I think people are suggesting truly "supporting" something requires actually participating in it and advocating for it.  I guess it just depends on which definition of "support" you use.  I certainly don't go around bragging that I support my local fire department simply because my tax dollars go there, and I'm glad they're there if I need them.

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I can think of a few thing my tax dollars fund that I am not too keen on and would say I do not support (even though my tax dollars go there).

 

Everyone who pays taxes fund schools.  That is how it is and should be, IMHO.

 

When I think of support, I think of things beyond tax dollars.  If I were to say I support the local hospital, people might think I fund raise for them, volunteers and/or talk positively about them and their initiatives regularly.

 

I don't do any of the above for schools - although I have been reasonably impressed with the local high school, and will say so.  

 

I think support goes beyond "where our tax dollars go"

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

I think people are suggesting truly "supporting" something requires actually participating in it and advocating for it.  I guess it just depends on which definition of "support" you use.  I certainly don't go around bragging that I support my local fire department simply because my tax dollars go there, and I'm glad they're there if I need them.

 

I do actively support all those things. My dh is on the S&R team as a volunteer and that's entails sacrifice and support by our family. We sell tickets for their annual raffle and endure long nights of worry when he's out on a search or manning an emergency station. I've helped out at the  fire department's annual carwash fundraiser. We have a big sign at the top of our driveway that reads "Save our Ambulance Paramedics." We've been to several meetings and written letters to try to secure adequate funding for our local ambulance crews. 

 

I support the local public school in similar ways. I've volunteered in the library, donated tons of books, have helped provide road safety chaperoning on the annual Grade 5/6/7 three-day bike trip, I do an annual sexual health talk with the 10th graders, I taught a music enrichment class on a biweekly basis for two years, I helped organize the school's arts & culture festival one year. I still do a fair number of things, but I consider that they don't count in the same way, as I now have kids attending the school part-time. The things I mentioned I did back when we were exclusively homeschooling or before my kids were school-aged.

 

So I think I do actively support these things. And I don't see that simply enrolling a child in the school represents any kind of meaningful support for the school system. 

 

Miranda

 

 


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#28 of 44 Old 01-30-2012, 10:12 PM
 
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I don't get this?

that would change nothing in my state, the Ed lobby would never let that happen


Sorry, I used ambiguous grammar.

 

"their own kids" referred to the family with school-children. If 25% of the school population vanished into the ranks of homeschoolers, then there would be all the more resources for the kids who stayed behind. 

 

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#29 of 44 Old 01-31-2012, 01:01 AM
 
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Well here, I believe the schools get more money for each child in school each day. And why public school parents are asked to bring their child to school for even part of the day if they have appointments, etc. So yes they get money (from taxes) in general, but then they get more for each child who's in a seat, each day.  Now the balance of what they get vs. what they spend? Who knows. 

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Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

And I don't see that simply enrolling a child in the school represents any kind of meaningful support for the school system. 

 


I agree in the context of this conversation, but I've never heard anyone make such a claim.  I think it would be about as absurd as suggesting that simply not enrolling one's child in public school and thus supposedly saving the school money was supporting public schools even more so than "active parents" who utilize public schools and are "volunteering and such."

 

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