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Old 10-29-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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More and more it's coming together for me. Seems I just need to read and read and get more explanations of the various methods before it clicks into place for me. Which is sounding familiar to my DC. orngbiggrin.gif  I'm loving this thread from The Well Trained Mind for explaining the various methods. 


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Old 10-29-2012, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok...I'm just reading about Spalding and it looks like the best fit so far...


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Old 10-29-2012, 12:22 PM
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Ok...I'm just reading about Spalding and it looks like the best fit so far...

I've heard good things about Spalding too.  Thanks for the quickreads recommendation.  I will check that out.  With AAS, we only spent about 15 min. a day.  I used the tiles and the teacher guide.  We rarely used the cards.  I just put them in a recipe box in case I wanted to use them.  Let us know what you choose and then post a follow up if you don't mind.  I really like hearing how things worked for different people.  The pros and the cons.  Thanks

 

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Old 10-29-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've heard good things about Spalding too.  Thanks for the quickreads recommendation.  I will check that out.  With AAS, we only spent about 15 min. a day.  I used the tiles and the teacher guide.  We rarely used the cards.  I just put them in a recipe box in case I wanted to use them.  Let us know what you choose and then post a follow up if you don't mind.  I really like hearing how things worked for different people.  The pros and the cons.  Thanks

 

Amy

Yea, I sure will! Right now we're just doing multiplication tables and one diagraph/week (4s and ou) this week. I also just printed the Spalding spelling rules and a bunch of stuff from the links BC posted. I've going to read through it when I'm board during the hurricane. ;-) 


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Old 10-29-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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  Learning the 6 ways we divide syllables was really good for her.  It actually was the catalyst to her reading longer words.   

I'm reading that article in the dyslexia support group on Yahoo - very interesting. DC did like Reading Reflex and from the description of PG methods, I wouldn't have guessed that would have been DC's thing. 

 

They talked about "syllable types". I assume that isn't what you're talking about above. But, I'm interested in both what you're talking about (methods for dividing syllables) AND the concept of the syllable types. 

 

Does anyone explain syllable types to kids? 


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Old 10-29-2012, 05:39 PM
 
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 I've going to read through it when I'm board during the hurricane. ;-) 

 

you mean... your power might go out... and we might have NO MODERATION???

 

:p

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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you mean... your power might go out... and we might have NO MODERATION???

 

:p

I believe you were looking for this smile...

 

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and I do believe on the spelling thread that I should perhaps edit my spelling mistake -- I'll be bored people...no one's strapping me to a board or anything like that. At least I don't think. 


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Old 10-29-2012, 10:59 PM
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I'm reading that article in the dyslexia support group on Yahoo - very interesting. DC did like Reading Reflex and from the description of PG methods, I wouldn't have guessed that would have been DC's thing. 

 

They talked about "syllable types". I assume that isn't what you're talking about above. But, I'm interested in both what you're talking about (methods for dividing syllables) AND the concept of the syllable types. 

 

Does anyone explain syllable types to kids? 

Syllable types is one part of dividing syllables

1.  Closed syllables. . . the vowel is closed in, the vowel will be short (simple example: cat)

2.  Open syllable. . . the vowel is not closed in--it will have a long sound (simple example: go)

3.  Vowel team (digraphs): pretty self explanatory, the vowel sound is controlled by the digraph (simple example: pain)

4.  VCE: vowel consonant e (simple example: bake)

5.  CLE: consonant followed by LE (example: bubble. . . the "bub" is a closed syllable and the "ble" is the CLE syllable. . . additionally the e is there simply because each syllable must have a vowel)

6.  R controlled:  the vowel sound is affected by the R that is attached to it (simple example: barn)

 

Learning the syllable types was very helpful for my daughter.  Additional tips that helped her divide syllables was to look for compound words, to let prefixes be their own syllable, and in cases like "hotel & robin" is it ok to try attaching the consonant to either side of the word and then changing if it doesn't make sense.  So, she might try hot el and realize that it doesn't make sense and then move the t over to make ho tel.  If I remember right, it is more common to have words that are like hotel (open/closed) vs robin (closed, closed) but I might be wrong.

 

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Old 10-30-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, very interesting, AAK. I read those descriptions of syllable types and have a hard time seeing how useful that would be for a developing reader...but I don't doubt that it would be. It's perhaps something I've NEVER thought of so it's weird to imagine it being helpful. I'm going to go over it with DC and ask her what she thinks. 


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Old 10-30-2012, 12:51 PM
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Ok, very interesting, AAK. I read those descriptions of syllable types and have a hard time seeing how useful that would be for a developing reader...but I don't doubt that it would be. It's perhaps something I've NEVER thought of so it's weird to imagine it being helpful. I'm going to go over it with DC and ask her what she thinks. 

I agree, at first I thought that it was overkill, but for some reason it seemed to make the words make more sense to dd.  She also learned to divide words between double consonants (this helped a lot).  In fact, that and the "one vowel sound/syllable" were two key bits for her.  The syllable stuff made it easier for me to explain spelling!

 

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Old 10-30-2012, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I started with some of the new material today. I showed DC a simple sound/letter combo sheet and we just discussed it. It was interesting to look at each sound and note which sounds had the most letter combos to make it and etc. I asked DC if she thought it was helpful and she said it was. 

 

Then we did a list of the 100 most common words in children's writing. I thought was a good start. Even with the easy ones she needs some help. The ones she had trouble with had difficult sounds to explain - "from" for instance. We also got to a bunch of homonyms (?) like "which/witch" and "there/their". I'm not sure how to teach them. Seems like it would be good to teach each homonym group together. 

 

I started on the syllable types but dropped it - it was either too much, I didn't understand how to explain it or DC wasn't in the mood. We'll try again tomorrow. 


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Old 10-30-2012, 09:42 PM
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Sounds like you had a good start.  Drop the syllables for now.  When we introduced them, it was done slowly, one at a time.

 

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Old 11-02-2012, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So...as we move SLOWLY through the week I have another question. What is the thought about whether it's best to teach spelling proactively or as a correction to mistakes?  I feel like DC is in such an odd place right now and now I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't take a big chunk of our time to go through spelling mistakes and really educate her on where she's making errors. I'd love to hear what you do/what the general thoughts are on that. 


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Old 11-02-2012, 10:58 PM
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So...as we move SLOWLY through the week I have another question. What is the thought about whether it's best to teach spelling proactively or as a correction to mistakes?  I feel like DC is in such an odd place right now and now I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't take a big chunk of our time to go through spelling mistakes and really educate her on where she's making errors. I'd love to hear what you do/what the general thoughts are on that. 

That is a tough one!  Right now, I don't correct spelling mistakes on any journaling, spontaneous writing, or schoolwork that isn't meant to be an exercise in spelling.  I do help her edit her writing (compositions/stories for "school") when she is ready to make a final (published) copy.  We don't take all her compositions to the "published" step.  Exception:  if I notice that she is regularly using a word in her spontaneous writing, and is consistently misspelling it, I have started letting her know.  This has gone over very well and she has been able to 'make note' of those words and correctly spell them ever since.  She is at a stage in her education where she knows that spelling is a weak area and she doesn't want to look dumb simply because of spelling.  When she is writing letters, etc she will often ask how to spell something.  She also takes scratch paper with her and will try out several variations of a word and then select what she thinks is right.  Because of her desire to spell correctly, I hope to see a lot of improvement this year.  

 

If going through her errors is going to diminish her self esteem, I would skip it for now except when needed.  I wouldn't want my dd to stop writing because she didn't feel that she "could" do it right.  My dd is very creative and writes a lot on her own (stories, letters, make believe props like menus, etc).  However, if you asked her if she likes to write, she would say "no" because she detests academic writing.  She really doesn't think of her fun writing as writing at all.  Therefore, I try to encourage the fun writing.  

 

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Old 11-03-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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So...as we move SLOWLY through the week I have another question. What is the thought about whether it's best to teach spelling proactively or as a correction to mistakes?  I feel like DC is in such an odd place right now and now I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't take a big chunk of our time to go through spelling mistakes and really educate her on where she's making errors. I'd love to hear what you do/what the general thoughts are on that. 


I'm still figuring out how best to approach spelling myself, but what makes the most sense to me is to use my DD's mistakes to give me information about what spelling rules she needs to learn.  Then I can teach her those rules as a separate thing, without ever pointing out any of the times she spelled words wrong because she didn't know the rule.  I do also sometimes tell her about specific mistakes, mainly if it's a high-frequency word.  It doesn't seem to bother her too much.

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Old 11-04-2012, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That is a tough one!  Right now, I don't correct spelling mistakes on any journaling, spontaneous writing, or schoolwork that isn't meant to be an exercise in spelling.  I do help her edit her writing (compositions/stories for "school") when she is ready to make a final (published) copy.  We don't take all her compositions to the "published" step.  Exception:  if I notice that she is regularly using a word in her spontaneous writing, and is consistently misspelling it, I have started letting her know.  This has gone over very well and she has been able to 'make note' of those words and correctly spell them ever since.  She is at a stage in her education where she knows that spelling is a weak area and she doesn't want to look dumb simply because of spelling.  When she is writing letters, etc she will often ask how to spell something.  She also takes scratch paper with her and will try out several variations of a word and then select what she thinks is right.  Because of her desire to spell correctly, I hope to see a lot of improvement this year.  

 

If going through her errors is going to diminish her self esteem, I would skip it for now except when needed.  I wouldn't want my dd to stop writing because she didn't feel that she "could" do it right.  My dd is very creative and writes a lot on her own (stories, letters, make believe props like menus, etc).  However, if you asked her if she likes to write, she would say "no" because she detests academic writing.  She really doesn't think of her fun writing as writing at all.  Therefore, I try to encourage the fun writing.  

 

Amy

Here is where our building school experience is something we need to work around our "after school" education. DC gets a lot of free writing time in school but I don't think they do a final draft with as much instruction as DC needs. I don't want to interfere with the school's method for drafts but I do want her to have the experience of spelling everything in a draft correctly, yk? But, like you say, I also don't want to suck all the pleasure of writing for her and I'm aware (because I'm a poor speller myself) of the limitations fear of spelling can make on writing. So, we're looking at walking a fine line, I guess.  

 

What we did this weekend is bring DC's writing journal home from school. I read through the last few pages and picked a short story to study with. We did a word list and she went over spelling for all the errors. Then we did a spelling test (which DC LOVES - LOVES!). dizzy.gif  Last night we did a experiment where DC re-wrote the first two sentences, trying to spell everything correctly. This has all been very pleasant but we're not doing as much explicit instruction as I had planned because the spelling errors are all over the map and my understanding of how to explain the errors is so limited. 

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I'm still figuring out how best to approach spelling myself, but what makes the most sense to me is to use my DD's mistakes to give me information about what spelling rules she needs to learn.  Then I can teach her those rules as a separate thing, without ever pointing out any of the times she spelled words wrong because she didn't know the rule.  I do also sometimes tell her about specific mistakes, mainly if it's a high-frequency word.  It doesn't seem to bother her too much.

I could take note of her spelling errors and try to identify some patterns...but for now they just seem to be in nearly every aspect of her spelling. 

 

 

 

All of this said, her evaluation is nearly finished and I've spoken to both the tutor suggested by the school and the administrator doing the back-up evaluation. It's interesting the difference in opinion from the reading specialist and the administrator. The specialist thinks DC really needs some heavy intervention from the tutor. The administrator (who is a friend of mine and who knows Aya quite well) thinks the problem can be solved at home and that it is more an issue of practice, practice, practice.  I don't know what to think of all of that. 

 

For now, DC is fine with the structure of our practicing. The agreement we've made to work in our spare time rather than to take time to schedule practice is working well. DC and I are both upholding our end of the agreement. As far as the work at home goes, it's now a matter of figuring out what helps DC become a better speller. And more good news is that one of her after-school commitments ended last week and the other ends over the next two weeks -- freeing up several hours/week. 

 

So, I'm feeling really good about our prospects. And also very grateful for all the support we've gotten on this thread. Thank you all so much! 


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Old 11-04-2012, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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**Possible Breakthrough** 

 

I dug out this old copy of REWARDS and did some spelling from the "Mulitsyllabic Reading Strategies" book. What I noticed was that DC really got the hard "a" sound very, very well, without fail, actually. The words were just hard "a" words with the sound spelled with "ai" or "ay" but DC had no trouble figuring out which one was which. I'm excited that something may have clicked for her. That got me wondering if we should study sounds and the diagraphs that make each sound as a group RATHER than the diagraph and all the sound each can make (which is what we were doing last week).  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this: 

 

  • Which method am I describing - ie. learning the sound first, then the diagraph rather than the diagraph and the sounds it can make? 
  • What type of learner learns the way I'm describing? 
  • What programs use this and/or where can I find word lists with sounds and the various vowels/diagraps that make each sound? 

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:44 AM
 
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I've been following this discussion, even though I've had nothing to contribute, really. To answer one of the questions you've posed is -- what you're describing wouldn't work for sight readers.

Seriously, I'm glad you're finding options that work for you and your daughter.

A little bit if devil's advocate, though. I always got A's in spelling in school, and frequently 100% correct for both spelling and using the word correctly in a sentence. As an adult, I frequently rely on spell check! Words like scissors are a source of difficulty always. My point is, children sometimes keep information in short term memory. They learn it to please their parents, but consider it unimportant and let it slip away. So if you find the information doesn't stick, it's because it isn't very important to your child -- at this time. Down the road might be a different story. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To answer one of the questions you've posed is -- what you're describing wouldn't work for sight readers.

Not surprised at all -- DC has never been a sight reader. 


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Old 11-04-2012, 08:58 PM
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**Possible Breakthrough** 

 

I dug out this old copy of REWARDS and did some spelling from the "Mulitsyllabic Reading Strategies" book. What I noticed was that DC really got the hard "a" sound very, very well, without fail, actually. The words were just hard "a" words with the sound spelled with "ai" or "ay" but DC had no trouble figuring out which one was which. I'm excited that something may have clicked for her. That got me wondering if we should study sounds and the diagraphs that make each sound as a group RATHER than the diagraph and all the sound each can make (which is what we were doing last week).  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this: 

 

  • Which method am I describing - ie. learning the sound first, then the diagraph rather than the diagraph and the sounds it can make? 
  • What type of learner learns the way I'm describing? 
  • What programs use this and/or where can I find word lists with sounds and the various vowels/diagraps that make each sound? 

 

Look at this sample from the B1 book of Abecedarian:  http://www.abcdrp.com/samples/ABCD_WB1_sample.pdf  

 

Type of learner. . . I don't know exactly because I've always thought of learning types as visual, auditory, kinestetic (sp?).  I would say that someone who thrives this way likes to be taught in a explicit, possibly sequential way.  But, I am not sure. 

 

While I linked the B1 book, I must disclose that most of the B2 books works the other way around. 

 

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