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#31 of 55 Old 05-22-2013, 01:45 AM
 
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 b. non ipad tablets, eg those on the Android system. My understanding is that apps for this market are fast growing. They tend to be a lot cheaper for what you get. Personally I'd work out exactly what apps you need or want and see if they are available in other formats.

 

I have an android phone and have been a fan for a while.  However, my experience with the app market has been a disappointing one so far; it really lacks the depth and breadth of the Apple app market.  

 

Sunday, Is there any way you could borrow an ipad for a week or so? I have friends who have ipads and use them only in a limited way.  We, on the other hand, use the it ALL the time.  So, in our case, the ipad was worth every penny spent on it.  You mentioned that you are raiding your savings up thread.  Trying it out would be great to see if you want to purchase it.  

 

Also, have you looked on craigslist?  I have another friend who got an almost new ipad for a really good price on Craigslist.  In his case, it was an excellent purchase.

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#32 of 55 Old 05-22-2013, 01:50 AM
 
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Fair point Emaye. Just wanted to say one more thing-Sunday what is it you are actually planning on using the ipad for? That's going to make a big difference. 

 

If you let us know what it is you want to do with it and what you already have computer-wise, it might also be possible to point out existing free or cheap software that will do some or all of the stuff that an ipad will do. If nothing else that might let you hold off on buying the ipad til the next version comes in. Also, for some apps, I understand that you can get (I'm going to get this wrong now!) is it nanos? Basically iphones without the phone? Depending on what app you wanted, I wonder if that could be an option? We pretty much always get shuffles etc off ebay or freeads, they are always stupidly cheap and always work fine (actually the only shuffle we've ever had just stop working, one week out of guarantee, was the one we bought new!)


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#33 of 55 Old 05-22-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have looked at the Ipads on craigslist. They are ridiculously priced for a used electronic device that has no warranty. I called the local store that sells them used. He was very helpful. He's the one that told me that most likely on June 10 there will be an announcement of a new Ipad so I am waiting until then to move forward. That gentleman also told me how crazy the local market is on the prices for used Ipads. So I will either buy one used from him (though he's not buying any until after June 10) or I will buy a refurbished from apple or maybe a returned one from amazon.

 

We have a pc with reasonable guts.

 

I have looked at the Itouch. Again, getting one used around here is ridiculous. However, for our purpose it doesn't make sense as the screen is too small.

 

I am starting down this path for one, yes ONE, specific app. http://letterschool.com/ Our daughter does not have very good fine motor skills. I have heard from several people how good this app is. Now, I would not buy an expensive electronics device if it was only going to have one purpose. However, almost everyone I know loves their Ipad. I like the idea of a touch pad that offers options my pc does not. I don't have a lot of use for a laptop so just having this as a laptopish sort of thing would be fine. (I had a laptop that died despite it almost never getting used so I know how much we don't use it.) Actually, the most use the laptop would get would be me checking emails while the kids are on the pc.

 

I would want educational apps for a 4 and 7 year old. Anything creative thinking, math skills, reading skills. My son loves science so we will get those kinds of apps as well.

 

I appreciate the help and suggestions from everyone. I am curious to see what the new Ipad that seems to be on the horizon will be. More importantly I am eager to see how they will lower the price of the current models.


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#34 of 55 Old 05-22-2013, 09:44 AM
 
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oh my gosh, that app is exactly "Handwriting without Tears".  I loved using the shaving cream... the sensory aspect helps to cement the motions used to form the letters.  We used it for fine motor delays as well.  Just a thought, hopefully I don't get condescending replies for something that might be helpful.  It is not expensive.

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#35 of 55 Old 05-22-2013, 02:45 PM
 
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I looooove using my ipad with my nearly five year old. I know many ppl will think he's too young, but it works for us. Ds has some sensory issues and this is a great tool for him . Regarding apps, there are several blogs you can google that are parents/homeschooling/educators reviews. We were gifted a 16 gb and will be purchasing at least a 32 gb in the next year.
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#36 of 55 Old 05-23-2013, 09:39 AM
 
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oh my gosh, that app is exactly "Handwriting without Tears".  I loved using the shaving cream... the sensory aspect helps to cement the motions used to form the letters.  We used it for fine motor delays as well.  Just a thought, hopefully I don't get condescending replies for something that might be helpful.  It is not expensive.


I think one of the great things with introducing the iPad is it is easily "in addition to" and not " instead of". The op stated that she does sensory stuff for fine motor work and wanted another medium as well.

One of the things I love about tech based skill practice is that the app gives immediate feedback. For letter writing for instance, it will only let you write the letter the "correct" way. Where when you are doing it on shavin cream or paper you can easily start at the bottom or make the bump on a b before the line etc. someone needs to be sitting right there and correcting, giving feedback continually. I know with ds he'll tell me "that's your way and my way works too" for some letters. I have no desire to argue with him about it, but the app reinforces the standard way and he does feel like it is telling him not to do it his way and then the hope is he sees that the standard way is often easier and more efficient.

Same idea with other "skill" based practice things. Instead of doing a page of a math workbook and then having a grown up correct it. The workbook page info is in an app and immediately the kid knows whether or not the answer was correct. Instead of seeing 5+2 and writing 6 and 20 mins later having someone tell you it is 7 and now not even remembering how or why you thought it was 6, right away you get the feedback. Often (with good apps and programs) showing you (5 apples appear and then you add 2 apples and it helps you count them as you touch each apple) which reinforces the concept of what addition is along with the skill practice.
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#37 of 55 Old 05-23-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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Ok we've been back and had another look at the ipad now, after this thread.

 

First off, I had a look at the link and was so wowed by what letterschool looked like I bought it. Ok, the good thing is that 5 year old has had a really long play around on it, and liked it a lot.  She's into her letters right now. My feeling was that it is okay. Its kind of the very, very first stage of the Montessori way to teach kids to write their letters. Having an ipad anyway and an interested kid, I'm glad I got it, its a fun app and she might possibly learn to write a little from it, though I have my reservations about this. I strongly suspect that the skills won't transfer to actual writing for my daughter, though we will see. But I would not personally empty my bank account to buy an ipad to run it. In no way am I trying to be critical if that seems like the right thing for your family, simply that this app, to me, having had two kids (incl one kid with reading issues) now already learn to write without such an app, is not worth buying an ipad for.

 

Second, just to say, my 9 year old got around three hours of pure ipad use today, a first for him. He was kind of disappointed by it because he discovered that the interface with Khan Academy, which he loves, is not perfect. There are issues around the keyboard interfacing with Khan academy and these make segments of it unusable. Might not be an issue for you, but thought I'd mention it. The issue was specifically around the programming segments-he was doing some probability and stats stuff after and afaik that was fine.

 

Honestly, just thoughts and feedback. At the end of the day, if you can afford the ipad,  go for it! Without a doubt, they are fun and convenient. My jury is just a bit more out on how educational it really is.


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#38 of 55 Old 05-24-2013, 09:53 AM
 
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http://www.safeinschool.org/2012/01/ipad-iphone-wi-fi-radiation-and.html?m=1

On the topic of iPads for kids, the value of them, monetarily and educationally, the effects of the use of should certainly be factored in to this equation by mothers on mothering dot commune. The fact that the use of the iPad, laptop, cell phone, wifi, and portable phone cause harm to children should not be silenced. The items are free to be consumed by the consumer, but standing in the way of passing the information to those reading this thread, considering the iPad for themselves, drawn to the title, the topic, is less important than feeling as if the thread has been hijacked. It is a piece to the puzzle that can be ignored or explored by those reading the thread about iPads used by homeschooling mothers.
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#39 of 55 Old 05-24-2013, 10:46 AM
 
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Not trying to silence you geemum. I can see that if this is a subject of concern to you you really might want to discuss it.

 

FWIW I have looked at the research on a number of occasions. I don't think the science behind it is robust and I'm afraid for me it does feel like scaremongering. Not from you, but from the writers of these articles. Its a big topic but I'd point out that waves on the electromagnetic spectrum, including wifi, do surround most of us anyway. Wifi is transmitted using radiowaves iirc, and these occur entirely naturally, in fact they help give us information about the early universe. I also tend to think with all this stuff its worth looking at whether people have a financial interest in what they are saying and I have to say, quite often there are financial interests at stake. Small ones, yes-someone has written a book or is selling crystals-but enough to remove the impariality.

 

So I am personally not concerned about WIFI, no, but I think its something everyone has to make their mind and I appreciate your concern. For my family we have decided that the minor, hypothetical, unproven risk, is worth taking for the enormous proven (to us) benefits of this technology. Of course you need to make that decision for your own family.


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#40 of 55 Old 05-24-2013, 01:43 PM
 
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I too have done a lot of reading into research about the risks of wifi and other forms of EMR and feel that this falls in the realm of pseudoscience. I am comfortable with the supposed risks of cordless phones, baby monitors, walkie-talkies, wifi, microwave ovens and radios. Science, in my observation, does not support the idea that there is any identifiable risk. If you disagree, or believe in following your intuition rather than well-designed scientific studies, that's certainly your prerogative. But that is more an EMR risk discussion than an iPad issue. Perhaps in this thread you could say that if a person has concerns about EMR risk, they should remember that the iPad typically uses wifi signals for internet access, and if you like, you could start a thread elsewhere on Mothering to discuss or debate that issue. But I don't think this thread is the place to begin a debate about whether EMR carries risks. 

 

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#41 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 11:49 AM
 
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http://www.unwittingvictim.com/French.html

 

try a grounding mat too, if you can't go without.  Watch that meter drop if you do measure waves... watch it spike when you stand in front of your "smart" meter.

 

This is tantamount to smoking your cigarette outside your vehicle vs. inside with windows up in the late 60's.  It was "safe" then, because mainstream opinion did not consider it "unsafe".  Time brings more studies, unbiased studies, which will be fought tooth and nail by those with addictions or money to be made.   

 

I wouldn't buy any ipad for my child, or myself and apologize for not leaving this particular thread previously, when told to do so.  I stand by my decision that this is on topic, but realize that it pushes buttons and does branch over in to an entirely new topic at this point.  

 

Good luck with your purchase, I hope you a. research all aspects of the Ipad, and b. are able to find an affordable, possibly used or refurbished ipad if this is something you will absolutely be purchasing for your child.

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#42 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh my gosh, that app is exactly "Handwriting without Tears".  I loved using the shaving cream... the sensory aspect helps to cement the motions used to form the letters.  We used it for fine motor delays as well.  Just a thought, hopefully I don't get condescending replies for something that might be helpful.  It is not expensive.

 

It's a great idea. I just don't feel like I do enough of this stuff so I want an option for her to do it on her own--without making a mess. You should have seen my kitchen yesterday after her science experiments!


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#43 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Second, just to say, my 9 year old got around three hours of pure ipad use today, a first for him. He was kind of disappointed by it because he discovered that the interface with Khan Academy, which he loves, is not perfect. There are issues around the keyboard interfacing with Khan academy and these make segments of it unusable. Might not be an issue for you, but thought I'd mention it. The issue was specifically around the programming segments-he was doing some probability and stats stuff after and afaik that was fine.

 

How old was your son when he started doing Khan Academy? My son is 7 and we have a pc. I wonder if he would be interested.

 

I wouldn't buy an Ipad JUST for the letterschool app, but it's what got me started on this mission. Now that I've posted to our homeschooling group my interest, everyone is coming up with their ipads and showing me interesting apps. So, it is all snowballing.


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#44 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.safeinschool.org/2012/01/ipad-iphone-wi-fi-radiation-and.html?m=1

On the topic of iPads for kids, the value of them, monetarily and educationally, the effects of the use of should certainly be factored in to this equation by mothers on mothering dot commune. The fact that the use of the iPad, laptop, cell phone, wifi, and portable phone cause harm to children should not be silenced. The items are free to be consumed by the consumer, but standing in the way of passing the information to those reading this thread, considering the iPad for themselves, drawn to the title, the topic, is less important than feeling as if the thread has been hijacked. It is a piece to the puzzle that can be ignored or explored by those reading the thread about iPads used by homeschooling mothers.

I do struggle with where is the line on safety versus technology. We have a microwave that I would like to ditch, but I don't see my husband agreeing to that soon. I worry about all the cell phones that are beaming into our bodies right now. Or the rays our internet satellite dish might be broadcasting. And our wifi phones and our wifi wifi (double intended.) 

 

Then there's the browning on the food I cook. How carcinogenic is that? And I can't afford to buy all organic. I don't even want to think about the long-term consequences of that. Or when we moved into our house last year and kept finding scorpions--the kind that can be fatal to young kids and we opted to spray pesticides and accept the consequences of the pesticides because those were long term threats versus the immediate threat of scorpions. And our dishwasher is lined with plastic--is it coating our dishes with BPA. Yes, we could go back to handwashing, but having just gotten my first dishwasher EVER (and I'm 50 years old,) I really, really like the convenience and how it frees me up to have more quality time with my kids. So I have to decide which is more important: quality time with mama or avoiding possible BPA exposure from a dishwasher. 

 

Then there's the air we breathe. Fortunately we live outside the city in the mountains and everyone's on 4 acres so our air is better than others, but what about when we go into town for playgroups and grocery shopping? What are my kids breathing then?

 

So many poisonous exposures every day and so many more that we don't even know about. I try the best I can--I just bought a pressure canner so I can try and can my own beans without BPA. But do you know how hard it was to find canning jars without BPA or plastic lids? And the company doesn't guarantee they will work for pressure canners in the US (though in Canada they will work.)

 

Oh, and I stopped buying sushi or seaweed snacks because of the potential for radiation due to the power plant melt down.

 

So along comes the IPAD and I see so many possibilities for my kids. I do not discount they can be yet another source of danger. I just don't know where the line is. So I see the article you linked recommends making sure the ipad is in airplane mode when kids play with it. That seems like a good idea.

 

I do appreciate your concern for my kids and others. I share the same concerns and focus on other, possibly equal, hazards. I just don't know how to function in this society without risking catastrophic problems every direction I turn. So I guess it comes down to which hazards come with the more redeeming qualities that are of use to my family. I mean even Montessori letters with shaving cream is probably pretty awful when you think about it--what is the shaving cream made out of, what makes it foam, what kind of slave labor is involved in its production, what happens to the spent cans, what are the long term consequences of children absorbing chemicals through their skin, etc.

 

Sigh. Maybe it was safer 10,000 years ago. Except we outlive those folks--at least we get some benefit from modern agriculture and medicine, when they're not killing us. I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm just trying to be funny because if I get too sucked into all the technology-generated hazards I pretty much have to stop functioning in this society..

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#45 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 05:02 PM
 
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SundayCrepes, that was a sad and beautiful post..and how I feel most of the time. It's a pick your battles kind of world out there. Love and support to you, mama! 


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#46 of 55 Old 05-25-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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SundayCrepes, that was a sad and beautiful post..and how I feel most of the time. It's a pick your battles kind of world out there. Love and support to you, mama! 

I doubt there's a single mama on MDC who doesn't feel the same way. It is modern life. It is both miraculous and deadly.

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#47 of 55 Old 05-27-2013, 01:50 AM
 
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geemum really not trying to have a go but could you explain how a grounding mat could possibly work? I've studied physics and I'm really struggling with how it could make a difference.  That isn't really how I remember any EM radiation working. I don't think anyone has asked you to leave the thread, by the way, I think the request was to stay on the topic of ipads and not get distracted onto safety but let face it, we're not very good at staying OT anyway! 

 

SundayCrepes I think your concerns are very valid and to an extent I share them. What I'd say is that the EM spectrum includes an awful lot of stuff that we need and use. Both heat and light are waves on the EM spectrum. Radiowaves-which get both the radio and TV signals to our houses-are on the EM spectrum and they are the things that people are concerned with in WIFI. They are also present in nature-we haven't invented these waves but rather harnessed them. You could make out the argument that, post industrialisation, when there was a shift in the colours that were present in everyday life - blues, and purples in particular became far more prevalent because they are much easier to dye with oil-by products than natural dyes-then that might have had an effect. As you say, we've changed an awful lot from what we initially evolved to do. I think like you say, modern life is beautiful and deadly-but tbh, that's what life is anyway, IMO. Like you say, we have wifi and electricity but-and I would argue as a result of that-in the West our kids have life expectancies double or triple what they'd have had even 200 years ago (in the UK anyway).

 

Oh re Khan Academy, well my 7 year old also likes it though not to the same degree. What my son really likes right now is the programming sections. But there is a lot of good stuff on there-every time I look there seems to be more, actually. Its also very easy for a child to use unsupervised, though I wonder if they might have to be reading fluently first. 

 

Oh ETA to add. Ok resulting from this thread I've had a real look at the ipad apps and so have my kids. I think part of my issue was actually trying to find stuff we liked on the desktop and expecting better on the ipad. Actually, though, the ipad does what it does well. My kids (7 & 9) are liking Boggle, ispell, chess games and some cursive writing thing as well as letterland and the BOB books app. They can do some of this with their grandparents who also have an ipad. So-its better than I thought, though still I would not buy one.


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#48 of 55 Old 05-27-2013, 02:27 AM
 
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am keeping on reading all that you all post because i'm thinking of buying an android tablet in July since we'll be travelling for a very very long time on 3 subsequent trains in August .... i have no precise idea what i want to use it for, i have a 6 years old, a 12 years old and a 14 years old.

the 14 years old has a kindle, am now aware that she also has music on that besides books

DH has a MP4, all 3 kids know how to play games on that (i don't !)

it would be nice to be able to send a few e-mails during our holiday

am a bit frightened by the touch screen  still & .... but i don't want to miss out on learning to use that new technology ....( am a SLOW learner)

so it's hard to make up my mind about what i "need"-want to buy in the end ....

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#49 of 55 Old 05-27-2013, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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geemum really not trying to have a go but could you explain how a grounding mat could possibly work? I've studied physics and I'm really struggling with how it could make a difference.  That isn't really how I remember any EM radiation working. I don't think anyone has asked you to leave the thread, by the way, I think the request was to stay on the topic of ipads and not get distracted onto safety but let face it, we're not very good at staying OT anyway! 

 

SundayCrepes I think your concerns are very valid and to an extent I share them. What I'd say is that the EM spectrum includes an awful lot of stuff that we need and use. Both heat and light are waves on the EM spectrum. Radiowaves-which get both the radio and TV signals to our houses-are on the EM spectrum and they are the things that people are concerned with in WIFI. They are also present in nature-we haven't invented these waves but rather harnessed them. You could make out the argument that, post industrialisation, when there was a shift in the colours that were present in everyday life - blues, and purples in particular became far more prevalent because they are much easier to dye with oil-by products than natural dyes-then that might have had an effect. As you say, we've changed an awful lot from what we initially evolved to do. I think like you say, modern life is beautiful and deadly-but tbh, that's what life is anyway, IMO. Like you say, we have wifi and electricity but-and I would argue as a result of that-in the West our kids have life expectancies double or triple what they'd have had even 200 years ago (in the UK anyway).

 

Oh re Khan Academy, well my 7 year old also likes it though not to the same degree. What my son really likes right now is the programming sections. But there is a lot of good stuff on there-every time I look there seems to be more, actually. Its also very easy for a child to use unsupervised, though I wonder if they might have to be reading fluently first. 

 

Oh ETA to add. Ok resulting from this thread I've had a real look at the ipad apps and so have my kids. I think part of my issue was actually trying to find stuff we liked on the desktop and expecting better on the ipad. Actually, though, the ipad does what it does well. My kids (7 & 9) are liking Boggle, ispell, chess games and some cursive writing thing as well as letterland and the BOB books app. They can do some of this with their grandparents who also have an ipad. So-its better than I thought, though still I would not buy one.

 

Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, after I wrote, "modern life is miraculous and deadly" or whatever I said I realized that is true of life at all times.

 

Could you give me a link to the programming part of khan academy?


Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#50 of 55 Old 05-27-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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am keeping on reading all that you all post because i'm thinking of buying an android tablet in July since we'll be travelling for a very very long time on 3 subsequent trains in August .... i have no precise idea what i want to use it for, i have a 6 years old, a 12 years old and a 14 years old.

the 14 years old has a kindle, am now aware that she also has music on that besides books

DH has a MP4, all 3 kids know how to play games on that (i don't !)

it would be nice to be able to send a few e-mails during our holiday

am a bit frightened by the touch screen  still & .... but i don't want to miss out on learning to use that new technology ....( am a SLOW learner)

so it's hard to make up my mind about what i "need"-want to buy in the end ....

Before you buy any tablet you might want to check on the applications that are available. There are so many more available for apple products which is why I want an Ipad. Also, as I mentioned before, there are significant rumors that a new ipad the week of June 10. If that happens the price of new ipads will drop significantly.


Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#51 of 55 Old 05-28-2013, 11:33 PM
 
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dissipates electric field build-up, not helpful with WIFI, you are correct, but where there is wifi there is a laptop, pc with fan, Ipad, etc and skyrocketed levels of EMF.

 

Yes I know that the electric things are everywhere... but oh how our exposure has increased with these little internets in our pockets that we stare at.  

 

An entire western European country acknowledges the hazards.  It is not Pseudoscience, it is science not yet understood, and naturally the cell towers, cell waves, WIFI, overly heightened EMF's are not good for us.  Staring at a screen all the time, touching it, faraday cage effect, bluetooth,.... use common sense.  How do YOU feel after sitting staring at the screen?   Of course this is no good.  

 

We need the internet, so keep it wired!  Do not radiate yourself by holding the smartphone with you 24-7 and sleeping next to it.  Do not set an ipad on your lap.

 

AND KEEP THE THINGS AWAY from the children!  They are still growing.  Their cells cannot handle being disrupted in this way. 

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#52 of 55 Old 05-29-2013, 10:33 AM
 
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erm programming https://www.khanacademy.org/cs ?

 

is my best guess. Right now ds is out but if that doesn't work, let me know and I'll get him to show me exactly what he's using.

 

TBH with khan academy both my older ones just play around until they find something of interest. Oh they are also planning to do some stuff from the projects section, I think building a robot with sensors called Sprout? I've just ordered a stack of electrical components for them off ebay-which weren't expensive, btw, around £5 / $8 for the set for both.

 

If your boy is interesting in programming I know dp has done programming stuff with my son in the past and probably will do it with dd1 (7) at some point. It was C that they were using. I can find out exactly what, if that helps? Ds would have been around 6 or 7 when they were doing it, and he loved it.


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#54 of 55 Old 05-29-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you.


Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#55 of 55 Old 05-29-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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erm programming https://www.khanacademy.org/cs ?

 

is my best guess. Right now ds is out but if that doesn't work, let me know and I'll get him to show me exactly what he's using.

 

TBH with khan academy both my older ones just play around until they find something of interest. Oh they are also planning to do some stuff from the projects section, I think building a robot with sensors called Sprout? I've just ordered a stack of electrical components for them off ebay-which weren't expensive, btw, around £5 / $8 for the set for both.

 

If your boy is interesting in programming I know dp has done programming stuff with my son in the past and probably will do it with dd1 (7) at some point. It was C that they were using. I can find out exactly what, if that helps? Ds would have been around 6 or 7 when they were doing it, and he loved it.

 

Thanks. I looked around the site. He walked in when I was looking at a video on elements and atoms. He found it boring. I understand why. I'll have to look at the computer stuff later.


Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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