...correct me if I'm wrong...(socialization topic) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We decided to homeschool, and the big question I get is, "what about socialization?"

I went to a PS and everytime I tried to socialize I got "written up" or sent to the office, or better yet, SEPARATED from the person I was "socializing" with! HHMMMM...

Holly
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#2 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 04:13 PM
 
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I agree,
most socialization skills that I see kids pick up in schools are negative socialization skills.
I would point out (when challenged) that most homeschool parents make sure there are lots of opportunities for their kids to develop good skills and have positive social experiences with a variety of people not just people of their own age group. My step kids went to public school and cannot hold a conversation with anyone more than half a generation older than them. Even their grandparents.
Some people will then say that kids need to learn to deal with negative social situations (bullies/cliques). My answer to that is: when they are older, more emotionally mature, and well equiped with positive social tools. Teenagers that are homeschooled will find as many social experiences as schooled kids, and they won't always be pleasant.
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#3 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 04:25 PM
 
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This is the question that I often get too and it really irritates me. It's as if I have my kids locked up in a 10 X 10 room for 8 hours straight while I point at a blackboard and lecture. First of all, we have four kids, soon to be five. That's a lot of socialization! Second of all, while my kids do their "school work" at home, we aren't home very much. We are constantly on the go. We have many groups of people that we socialize with. Some have kids the same age, some older, some younger. That's the beauty of it if you ask me.

And yes, I agree, the socialization that kids get in school may not be what you want it to be. And I got in tons of trouble in my PS days for socializing.

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#4 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 05:31 PM
 
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LOL, yep I used to get that question ALL the time. I'm not sure why everyone is obsessed over the socialization issue for HS kids. I suppose they don't know any kids? We never got to socialize either except for recess and lunch and between classes during the other grades.
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#5 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 05:35 PM
 
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Hi,
Here is how I feel about the socialization.
A few (or more) children that my child wants to be around
that shares the same interests as she does, and not
around children just out of peer pressure is better for her
than a whole bunch of children where my child might feel
out of place or not even want to be around them but feel
pressured to be.
Its also very true what others have pointed out about
how Homeschool children get along better with all ages
and not just their own.
Thats one way I look at it but heres another.
I went to public school but I was a step child at home
and most definitely a cinderella lol as I started working
on a public job at I was either still 13 yrs old or just
turned 14 yrs old so I worked, went to school, and
was a slave at home!
My child that is Homeschooled gets far more
socialization with children than I ever hope to get
when I was in public school.
Dont know why so many think that public school kids
get more or better socialization!!
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#6 of 19 Old 08-07-2002, 09:22 PM
 
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A major concern of mine was the 'social life' my child would lead as a home-schoolee, but then I really started watching ppl while we're out and about. I'm positive that I don't want my kids socializing w/ most of the kids I see. And I also started remembering what my peers were like when I was a kid. Alot of kids are just plain mean, not to mention the lack of manners. I'm very picky about who I socialize with, and the same is true for my kids. I used to think I was being unrealistic about wanting to keep certain ppl out of my children's realm, but now I feel that it's the least I can do for them. After all, one of the many things I love abt being an adult is that I don't have to deal w/ ppl I don't want to deal with. Why shouldn't my kids experience that joy as well?
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#7 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 03:09 AM
 
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When asked "What about socialization?" I tell them is one of of the biggest reasons that we do homeschool.

(Then walk away, it really confuses them)
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#8 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 03:23 AM
 
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My brother tried the "well they need to be socialized so put them in PS"I told him he had ZERO information on the subect,and that I wouldnt even consider having this conversation with him further until he did some research.
As far as the socializing goes,in JR high and highschool,the only reason I went to school was to socialize!Not to learn.I think there is a time and place for everthing,socializing like I did in school was not the time or the place.
You do have the right time and place when HS.

But keep in mind,my girls are only 21 months now far from "school age"We are still filling our minds with knowelage to find the path for our girls,but we want the decision to be an educated one.
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#9 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 03:26 AM
 
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Interesting.

Our initial reaction was that socialization is something very small children need to experience intensely, appropriate preschool stuff, and then it is irrelevant to schooling, so I have my heart set on HS'g. But DH is hesitant about HS'g ...

So we sent DS#1 to a preschool. And he's had all the socialization experiences a child could have, including having his little heart broken. This is not my idea of what's supposed to be happening. His broken heart breaks mine, too. So in the end this socialization experiment is what is turning DH more in the HS'g direction.

The facts to me are that socialization is what we learn when we live life, not what happens when 20-some-odd kids of the same age are thrown into a room for eight hours a day.

- Amy
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#10 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 11:12 AM
 
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The word "socialization" itself is very interesting- it actually means for a person to adopt the group mentality and standards, not to learn appropriate social skills. I don't want my children socialized to a government run school, I don't like their standards or mentality. If you look into the history of the public school system here in America, it was created to socialize immigrants. It was a quick and easy way for the government to get incoming people from all differernt backgrounds a quick dose of what "American" means, and what is expected of you. The children would bring the information home to their families, and grow up to follow the standards set in the school system. That was the idea, anyway.
It's actually odd that most Americans believe that to learn social skills a child must be away from hoome and their parents a good part of the day, with a group of peers who may have nothing in common but age, and lorded over by one aduwith total power. Personally, I felel that everyday life is the best place to learn social skills, and I guess it muxt be working because I get a lot of comments about hoiw polite my children are.
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#11 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 12:05 PM
 
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o khristday, that is so well put, thank you! i am currently in the middle of triing to decide what rout to go for schooling my little one and one of the concerns on the hs side was the social thing. now my mind is totally at ease onthis matter, thank you all of you for sharing your thoughts on this.
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#12 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 07:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by khrisday
and I guess it muxt be working because I get a lot of comments about hoiw polite my children are.
Yes, me, too. It's funny that I never think of this as an example of the social skills they're learning at home. I just think of it as manners. But they're the same thing.
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#13 of 19 Old 08-08-2002, 10:43 PM
 
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"Here is some info re 2 studies done on socialization-
Stough (1992),looking particularly at socialization, compared 30 home-schooling families and 32 conventionally schooling families, families with children 7-14 years of age. According to the findings, children who were schooled at home "gained the necessary skills, knowledge, and attitudes needed to function in society...at a rate similar to that of conventionally schooled children." The researcher found no difference in the self concept of children in the two groups. Stough maintains that "insofar as self concept is a reflector of socialization, it would appear that few home-schooled children are socially deprived, and that there may be sufficient evidence to indicate that some home-schooled children have a higher self concept than conventionally schooled children."

"This echoes the findings of Taylor (1987). Using one of the best validated self-concept scales available, Taylor's random sampling of home-schooled children (45,000) found that half of these children scored at or above the 91st percentile--47% higher than the average, conventionally schooled child. He concludes: "Since self concept is considered to be a basic dynamic of positive sociability, this answers the often heard skepticism suggesting that home schoolers are inferior in socialization" (Taylor, 1987)."

The foundation for all this thinking is summed up by John Taylor Gatto in his book "The Underground History of American Education": "The destructive myth of the 20th century was the aggressive contention that a child could not grow up correctly in the unique circumstances of his own family. Forced schooling was the principal agency broadcasting this attitude.
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#14 of 19 Old 08-09-2002, 12:01 AM
 
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I agree, socialization in public schools is not what I would want for my kids. Socialization PERIOD (as defined by khrisday) is not what I would want for my kids. I want my children to be free to come and go as they please and have the opportunity to make friends with individuals not born within the same year as them.

Socialization isn't a valid argument for me from opponents of homeschooling. It's one of the main reasons I want to homeschool.

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#15 of 19 Old 08-09-2002, 12:45 AM
 
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We heard this a lot at the beginning, too. Our children are 15, 13, 10, 8 and 2. None of them have ever been to public school. They are happy, cooperative and able to get along with people of any age. Our 15 year old loves to be with his friends but is just as happy hanging out with his brothers and sisters or spending time alone. We've never had the age segregation thing, where someone is their friend (or not) because they are (or are not) the same age.

Another thing people fail to understand is that school is just not like the real, adult world. The world is not age segregated. Most adults don't ridicule and make fun of other adults. I was the victim of ridicule and I can tell you I'd have been a much more secure young adult had I not had to endure that. By the same token, I was mercifully naive and had no idea that other kids in my high school were doing drugs and having sex. I don't think that I would have capitulated had I been pressured, but I don't know that I wouldn't have either, I was made fun of for years...I don't know if I'd have been given a chance to finally fit in if I'd have snatched it up.

A big part of our homeschooling decision was protecting our kids from the socialization that happens there, and taking that very important part of their growing up into our own hands. We've not yet been disappointed.

As for toddlers and socialization, most 2-3 year olds really cannot deal with a lot of time with kids their own age. Our 2 year old is a very social little guy...because of his older siblings who take the time to talk with him, interact with him and let him 'hang out' with them. He's learning from their example and when he does get with kids his own age he plays quite nicely because that's how he's treated. One of my favorite sights is my 3 boys...ages 15, 8 and 2, all sitting on the double bed in the older boys' room. The two older ones playing playstation, the 2 year old with a broken controller sitting right up with them pushing buttons like mad and laughing and having a good old time with them. The 15 year old will look at him and say "I'm winning"...and the 2 year old, still pushing the buttons of the disconnected controller says "no, I winning!" and they laugh and laugh.
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#16 of 19 Old 08-09-2002, 09:17 AM
 
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I LOVE that story, Sue! That's kind of how it is around here. I love seeing how the older kids interact with the littler ones. That's one of my favorite reasons for homeschooling. The older kids see how to treat kids that are younger than they are. That's a BIG socialization thing, if you ask me. Then when we're out, they see little ones and they are kind to them. A neighbor of ours is so awful. He's 10 and last year I was driving him somewhere with my kids. Anyway, I had a newborn and she started crying in the car. He told my ds to tell her to "shutup". Then he went on to say that babies are annoying. I wanted to jump back there and strangle him! I didn't have to, though, ds explained to him that she was a baby and that's the only way that she can communicate. He told him that you needed to try to soothe her until we were done in the car.

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#17 of 19 Old 08-09-2002, 04:21 PM
 
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I totally agree with the older children getting so much from interaction with the youngers ones. Our teens are Awana leaders now, they work with the 5-7 year olds and the kids just love them. I've heard from several parents that their child just adores our son (or daughter, as the case may be)...they take charge and don't let the kids over run them, but are kind and playful with them. I'm so proud
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#18 of 19 Old 08-09-2002, 08:57 PM
 
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I remember being socialized in school.

I was bad because we were poor,
I was bad because I brought my luch (so no one would eat with me)
I was bad because I didn't wear the right clothes
I was bad because I didn't have a cabbagePatch doll (so I didn't have anyone to play with at recess because they all brought thier dolls and played with them)
I was bad because I didn't play sports
I was bad because I lived in the Apartments (government housing)
I was bad because i didn't have the right hair
I was bad because I hung around with loosers (because I was bad : )
I was bad because I was smart (since I had no friends I had nothing better to do than homework)
I was bad because I was Emory's sister (He was really bad, poor guy, because he had most of te above, was metally slow, overweight and buck toothed and his name was Emory)
I was bad because my parents were devorsed
I must be really bad because I didn't have any friends.

By High school I was OK but everytime i tried to be social I got in trouble (Ironically the teachers loved me in grade school because I never talked to anyone.) So much for socialization. I just can't think of anything socially my children will learn in school that will apy in the real world.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#19 of 19 Old 08-10-2002, 02:24 AM
 
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amen, lilyka...

I want my kids' lives to be as happy as possible. And let's face it, going to school adds levels of misery that are just better left unexperienced. They're gonna have enough issues w/out all that emotional drama.
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