Why are so many democrats against educational autonomy? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 01:00 AM
 
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I see public school support that disfavors homeschooling as part of the "progressive" liberal view of many people I know. A lot of liberals I know believe that public schools promote progress and we should not leave them but stay with them and solve the problems together. The word "abandon" is used a lot in reference to what homeschoolers are doing if they do not participate. Often there is a missionary tone to things that are said also, as if middle class progressive children are a good influence on the other children.

Sometimes parents say that children have to go to public school to be around real diversity. So it is easy to see how that is a liberal priority, also.

The problem I see is that "we" have almost no real power in fixing school problems. The real problems are built into the structure and the real power for structural change is fairly innaccessible. It is possible to affect things, but that doesn't mean your children belong there in the meantime, since such structures are obviously VERY slow to change and children are very FAST in growing up.

The public school structure is internally anti-progressive. It does not change much. It makes no allowance for major change. Most of the real innovation is outside of the system--and the innovators have little choice because their ideas and methods can't get in the front door for the most part. That is why the innovators homeschool...

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#32 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 04:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aniT
I am sorry applejuice but I have to disagree with this statement. The reason business is leaving California is because California is not business friendly. The California government tries to make businesses pick of the tab for services that the state thinks the public should have, but is not willing to pay for.

Just before leaving office Davis signed a bill requiring business to PROVIDE AND PAY FOR health insurance for all employees. Business with x amount of employees are required to pay the benefits for defendants as well.

http://www.health-access.org/expandi...nst_repeal.htm



Add this to the sky rocking real-estate, high cost of living, and higher than average minimum wage requirements and business are leaving the state in droves. Employees are going to be lucky to have jobs, not to worry about forced health care. No wonder the public is leaving the state as fast as they can.
O.K., you are correct about California not being business friendly. ITA.

But the schools still suck.

I took my children out because I CANNOT WAIT for the schools to get their act together. My children need an education, a GOOD education, no, an EXCELLENT education, NOW!

My DD started school in 1985. It is now 2005. My youngest child is 13. When is this miracle going to occur?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#33 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 04:15 AM
 
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Furthermore, let me add that since 2000, the property sales and values have skyrocketed.

While Proposition Thirteen, the schools should be having a windfall in property taxes coming in. The house that my parents bought in 1960 and was valued at $40,000 in 1975, the year the Prop 13 rollback fixed their assessed value at, had my parents paying $400.00 + over the last 25 years...

Their house, and many like it, sold for $565,000.00, so the new owner, and many like her, is paying $5,650.00+. (more, as a school bond has passed) That is an increase of nearly 15x for just one parcel!

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#34 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 02:17 PM
 
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I have to wonder how much of the property tax money REALLy goes to schools. Is it X amount of $'s, or is it a %.

Also look at all the free lunch and now free breakfast the schools provide, does this come out of the school budget or from somewhere else? Then there is the fact that the schools budget goes up every year as well, so while they may be getting more money, they are paying out more money in expenese.
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#35 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wilhelmina, it's H.B. 2733, the Home Education Equity bill. It removes the testing requirement for homeschoolers, putting them on equal footing with private schools. It passed the House with 84% of 'yes' votes from Republicans, and 90% of 'no' votes from the Democrats. Now it's going to the Senate Rules Committee.
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#36 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 03:09 PM
 
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Of course, people think money is the only thing wrong with the ps system, and that if only people paid higher taxes or voted the right way or donated money, all problems would be solved.

I don't want my kid in ps because I don't agree with the teaching methods. It has nothing to do with money. Private schools struggle for money too, even more than public ones, and I'd still consider a private school if I agreed with their methods.
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#37 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 03:17 PM
 
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I think dems are under the illusion that the public schools really can give all students an equal education, and they see homeschooling and private schoolings as threats to public schooling-- by sucking out of the system many of the students whose parents care about their education, and by cutting down on funding (less students=less funding). In general, dems seem to think that more money will solve problems. This is hardly the case, especially in the public schools.
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#38 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 10:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT
I have to wonder how much of the property tax money REALLy goes to schools. Is it X amount of $'s, or is it a %.

Also look at all the free lunch and now free breakfast the schools provide, does this come out of the school budget or from somewhere else? Then there is the fact that the schools budget goes up every year as well, so while they may be getting more money, they are paying out more money in expenese.
In California, according to law, a good chunk of the Lottery money goes to the schools and it has been this way since the Lottery began on October 14, 1985.

The Free Lunch and Free Breakfast Programs come out of a Title I budget, Federal Money, out of which many other special programs come for lower income families. You may also see some special classes as a result

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#39 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 10:32 PM
 
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Yes, I know they say the lottery money goes to schools, but I never saw a difference when I was in school. There were no extra programs, no field trips, no new books, nothing. I always believed that lottery money was a load of ****!! If the schools saw the money, it never trickled down to the students.

Then again, after we graduated high school, and ex-friend’s mother (you know the one that had EVERYTHING all throughout school) was arrested for embezzling over $400,000 from the school district. And that was only what she was CAUGHT taking. She had been working there since before her daughter and I were born.

Now THAT could be the problem with schools. Corupt administrators.
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#40 of 50 Old 06-05-2005, 10:45 PM
 
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So I think that historically that many "religious" homeschoolers and homeschooling organizations are also republican or maybe libertarian defalting to republican-- even here in AZ where we have a Democrat as Gov the people who approach her most of the time are the "religious" homeschoolers that are republican and so I think that the politics get to be messy and if you listen to the push and the degree of ignorance some of these folks display you could easily understand an anti-homeschool reaction-they present very biased views that can include sexism, racism, religious intolerance. The state wide conference is usually a potential mine field for our representatives who go, because we are an open group accepting all who come regardless of beliefs, the meetings and workshops are started and ended with prayers, discussions such as how to weed out people who falsify their articles of faith documents, how to mount a campaign against certain political (democrat) candidates and how "open" homeschooling organizations fail because we don't have g-d behind us....
When I first started homeschooling there were only mixed groups because our numbers were small enough that we all had to get along in order to have support for several years now there are organizations where you have to sign an article of Faith in order to belong and these groups locally out number the live and let live homeschoolers by about 5 to 1 . If you are democrat or so inclined you are going to have to be political and vocal let your elected officials know where you are coming from-- give them a different view of homeschooling that would encompass their world views also letting them know there are voting # out there of like mind
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#41 of 50 Old 06-06-2005, 01:00 PM
 
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I think the government in general doesn't like homeschooling. They want to control what our kids learn so they can churn out good little uber-patriotic citizens who don't question them. Not that I'm paranoid or anything.

I believe though, especially when you look at the history of public schools. Pretty scary stuff.

I think Republicans just tend to bite their tongues a bit more because they have the conservative religious base, which tends to homeschool. Dubya and his wife are strongly opposed to homeschooling, but they know enough not to bring it up a lot.
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#42 of 50 Old 06-06-2005, 01:03 PM
 
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Oh, and I have to add-

My SIL is a very conservative Christian republican, and I'm so liberal it's amazing I haven't bled to death yet. One reason she homeschools is because she thinks the public school system is too liberal, and one of my reasons is that I think it's too conservative.
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#43 of 50 Old 06-06-2005, 01:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CherryBomb
Dubya and his wife are strongly opposed to homeschooling, but they know enough not to bring it up a lot.
I've never heard this before.

Do you have any links to support this statement?
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#44 of 50 Old 06-06-2005, 10:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT
Yes, I know they say the lottery money goes to schools, but I never saw a difference when I was in school. There were no extra programs, no field trips, no new books, nothing. I always believed that lottery money was a load of ****!! If the schools saw the money, it never trickled down to the students.
ITA!, aniT

BTW, in regards to your story about your "friend" in school, when I attended graduate school for my teaching credential, two of my professors in the elementary education department were former principals from the LAUSD who had been caught embezzling funds from the school district.

These people were teaching me!

Later, one of them was working in the district office; she interviewed me for a teaching job with the district.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#45 of 50 Old 06-06-2005, 10:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mwherbs
So I think that historically that many "religious" homeschoolers and homeschooling organizations are also republican or maybe libertarian defaulting to republican --
Actually the modern homeschooling movement started with the counter-culture movement of the 1960s -

The first groups to oppose the move to forced public education were the religious groups of the nineteenth century since the public school movement started under the trancendentalists and Unitarian movement of Horace Mann, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and the like.

It came to a head in 1922 when the governor of the state of Oregon outlawed all private schools and was decided in 1925 in the Supreme Court. A Catholic School sued and won allowing the existence of private, especially religious schools to operate in every state.

Pierce -vs- Society of Sisters 268 U.S. 510 docket number 583

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#46 of 50 Old 06-08-2005, 11:55 PM
 
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I lean toward the Democratic party, so it always bothers me too. It could, of course, be because of the NEA, but my understanding has always been that it has to do with the intent to support the less privileged children they think would lose out if the schools have less economic and parental support. Too bad they don't get it. ; ) Lillian
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#47 of 50 Old 06-09-2005, 04:32 PM
 
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The head of the HSLDA is super good buds with Dubya. Now, it's possible that the the HSLDA's ultimate goal is to work with the feds to create a two-tier educational system with government schools on the bottom feeding cannon fodder and Walmart shoppers into a system controlled by the children of married, white Christians who are allowed to homeschool if they can prove their allegiance to the Reich, I mean the US - but it's also possible that Yog Sototh is inside the Pentagon, you know? I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
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#48 of 50 Old 06-09-2005, 04:38 PM
 
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Several people have mentioned the NEA, which I was unfamiliar with until this school year. My child's teacher is heavily involved (on the NEA Board of Directors for our state), and was absent from the classroom 35% of the time for NEA meetings in Washington and other places.
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#49 of 50 Old 06-09-2005, 10:05 PM
 
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but it's also possible that Yog Sototh is inside the Pentagon, you know? I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
maybe be....
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#50 of 50 Old 06-11-2005, 03:31 AM
 
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Several people have mentioned the NEA, which I was unfamiliar with until this school year. My child's teacher is heavily involved (on the NEA Board of Directors for our state), and was absent from the classroom 35% of the time for NEA meetings in Washington and other places.
When I did student teaching, my first master teacher was absent three days out of five every week...she had a pattern of doing this before I even came to her classroom. This was in the LAUSD.

She told me she had work to do for her church : She was a Mormon. This was in a public school...what about separation of church and state?

I filed a formal complaint, and then I was dropped from that assignment and told that the master teacher was entitled to a day off now and then. (60% of the time?) My complaint was thrown away and never considered seriously. The principal laughed at me and the University ignored me.

I do not think he/she or any one else is much of any kind of influence or any kind of educator if he/she is gone most of the time from the classroom. What the heck is a teacher supposed to be doing anyway? Going to meetings all of the time and not teaching?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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