Why are so many democrats against educational autonomy? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Am I wrong about this? It just seems that everytime I read something about a homeschooling freedom bill, the democrats are fighting it. And it is currently the case with a bill here. Can someone please explain this to me?
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#2 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:01 AM
 
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I'm not sure about homeschooling in particular, unless they are worried about the explicitly religious ones; I do know that dems are often opposed to vouchers & other alternatives to public school because they do nothing to address & change issues w/ public schools--the place where the majority of kids end up and where there are obviously huge problems.

Maybe they don't want to encourage homeschooling because they think it will only exacerbate the problems of the public schools; by dropping out of the system, you are not doing anything to change that system; you will have no incentive to make it different. Thus the differences between haves & have nots increases because you are choosing to benefit your own kid/individual family, and to ignore the wider society's needs. (I am absolutely supportive of homeschooling myself, though I do think abandonment of public schools by anyone who can get out of them is a serious problem.)
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#3 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:25 AM
 
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Democrates have a strong relationship to unions, uncluding teachers unions. So they support their views.
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#4 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:38 AM
 
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I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it or not...just my 2 cents.

The NEA (Nat'l Education Association) is a big supporter of the Democratic party. And the NEA is opposed to homeschooling, as written in their resolution B-69; which states that only state qualified teachers and state approved curriculum should be used. What's the point of homeschooling if its just school at home

Since the NEA is the major "union" for school teachers and the like, homeschoolers abandoning schools, as the previous poster mention, means less money for schools, teachers and eventually the NEA.

My mom and sister are both in public school education (one is a teacher, the other is a principal). Neither of them are NEA members because of the NEA's short sighted view on learning and education.

I'm a former college instructor and current homeschool mom. Neither major party truly gets the idea of educational autonomy, although Republicans are usually more receptive.

But check your local representatives for Senate and the House. You'll be surprised. We recently had the help of a Democratic state representative help overturn the state homeschooling regulations.

Like I said before, this is only mere speculation on my part,

Cara
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#5 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:40 AM
 
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it has been my experiance that democrats are against anything that weakens the public school system and sees anything that takes kids out of public chool as the enemy of the public school. and republicans are more likely to say screw the public schools just try something different. but I don't think either are particularly pro homeschooling as a rule.

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#6 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:41 PM
 
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I have noticed that too. I didn't know NEA was supported by the Democrats. Or if I did I blocked it.

Just another reason I have trouble finding my political party. :LOL:
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#7 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 01:58 PM
 
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What is the homeschooling freedom bill? I googled it and came up with a NY state bill, but I see you are in Oregon. Is it the NY bill you are specifically asking about or something else - a federal bill??
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#8 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 02:07 PM
 
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The NEA connection makes sense to me. In politics, just follow the money and you can usually find the headwaters of a political opinion (wow, Holy mixed metaphor, Batman!)

I remember the Clintons were such proponents and believers in public schools but ended up sending their daughter to a Friends' school in D.C. Now, I can't say that I blame them and they certainly had issues that most of us don't deal with (security, for one) but I remember that raising eyebrows at the time.

There are a lot celebrities who are sort of outspoken about their Democratic-ish political beliefs who are proclaiming that their kids will attend public schools - Cynthia Nixon is one and there are several others. Who knows how much if this is a true dedication to improving schools by keeping their money, influence and engagement in the system and how much is more a dedication to the platform of the party.
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#9 of 50 Old 05-26-2005, 03:23 PM
 
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I am absolutely supportive of homeschooling myself, though I do think abandonment of public schools by anyone who can get out of them is a serious problem.
I don't understand. Shouldn't anyone who WANTS out be able to get out? Should there be some people who just aren't able to leave the ps system?

And what is the new bill? I'm in OR too...
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#10 of 50 Old 05-27-2005, 04:14 AM
 
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If you look at public education primarily as a jobs program it makes all kinds of sense. Democrats are going to fight anything that shrinks the gravy train.
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#11 of 50 Old 05-27-2005, 10:04 AM
 
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Read Gatto's Underground Histroy of Education, it'll explain a LOT.
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#12 of 50 Old 05-27-2005, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urklemama
If you look at public education primarily as a jobs program it makes all kinds of sense. Democrats are going to fight anything that shrinks the gravy train.

That is a bit simplistic. I suspect thre are a whole host of reasons that any one Democrat or the party as a whole would not support a particular bill about school choice or homeschooling. Though sometimes misguided, from our point of view as homeschoolers, Democrats have sincere concerns about the welfare of children - both schooled and home/un-schooled.

I will freely admit that there are less than altruistic reasons also, but if we want to fight for our right to homeschool, it is best that we not oversimplify our "opposition."
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#13 of 50 Old 05-28-2005, 07:13 PM
 
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Primarily - and this long predates unions and NEA contributions - it's because public education is meant for everyone, regardless of race, religion, class, etc. When people are given autonomy in education, it tends to benefit certain races, classes, etc. Democrats want to protect public education for those who wouldn't have anywhere else to go. I agree with that, but not enough to sacrifice my daughter to a bad system.
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#14 of 50 Old 05-28-2005, 11:46 PM
 
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Can someone please explain this to me?
$$$$$$$

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#15 of 50 Old 05-29-2005, 12:04 AM
 
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Mediocrity for everyone and tenure for the worst educators. When you get a teaching position, no matter how hard you suck eggs, you get to keep it forever.

I've heard it all-- the system is terrible, but at least everyone is equal.

Except it's not true. Kids in poor communities get squat. Schools are funded from a real estate tax base. If you live in a rich community, your school has more resources. if you live in a poor community, pray hard. But don;t ask for a voucher, because then the school systems wouldn't be 'equal'.

Big fat joke. we know there is no such thing as public school equity.

The NEA is a big joke, imo. And any politican who isn't working for equal fnding for all schools, no matter the real estate tax, is also a joke.

I mostly vote Dem, so I am a part of this mess as well, and the Dems can talk real good like they care, but all one needs to do is look at 'good' schools, and none are in poor areas. Schools in depessed areas simply do not have the tax base for funding. Period. So while poor parents are screaming for better schools or some way to hs or send their kid to a better school via vouchers, , the Dems scream "But schooling is the great American Equalizer!" Hell, no. A crappy school is a crappy school.

Real Estate tax is why a Weston MA elementary school can have field hockey & chemistry labs, and a Roxbury MA elementary school has peeling lead paint and no school library. And that's in a 'liberal 'state with a Kennedy as a Senator. You do the math.
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#16 of 50 Old 05-29-2005, 06:04 PM
 
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This is my big-fat-huge-gripe with the democratic party. They don't trust me to make my own decisions. They don't stop at making my doctor available for my kids, they want to make sure we see him. They don't stop at making my schooling available, they want to make sure I attend. They don't stop at making my OB/MW available, they want to make sure I don't deliver without one. Sure, it is meant well, but they make the choice for me, and I don't like that! They can't seem to see that sometimes, people don't 'take advantage' of a program and it isn't because they don't know about it or are too lazy, but because they have a better alternative! I don't know why this is such a difficult concept.

Mama, homeschooler, midwife. DD (13yo), DS (11yo), DD (8yo), DD (3yo), somebody new coming in November 2013.

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#17 of 50 Old 05-29-2005, 10:36 PM
 
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In answer to the OP:

Because the Democratic Party supports Unions which run the school and the teachers Unions.

It is $$$$$.

I have not read the other posts, but this is my opinion...

I have worked in schools for over thirty years and almost any teacher who is honest will tell you that every successful student has behind them parents/guardians who really care about him/her.

Homeschooling works...screw that "socialization" argument...the "socialization" that children receive in school is so terrible; they imitate the worst of their peers, and each one wants to outdo the other one! When children are at home, their peers are their parents who usually set a good example, especially if they have decided to homeschool in this day and age.
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#18 of 50 Old 05-29-2005, 10:38 PM
 
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Personally, I hope they scrap the whole system and privatize education....all of it.

But I am a realist also. I am not holding my breath.
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#19 of 50 Old 05-30-2005, 10:34 PM
 
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It's not simplistic, but it sure is simple.
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#20 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 01:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhemina
That is a bit simplistic. I suspect thre are a whole host of reasons that any one Democrat or the party as a whole would not support a particular bill about school choice or homeschooling. Though sometimes misguided, from our point of view as homeschoolers, Democrats have sincere concerns about the welfare of children - both schooled and home/un-schooled.

I will freely admit that there are less than altruistic reasons also, but if we want to fight for our right to homeschool, it is best that we not oversimplify our "opposition."
I do not think any politician of any stripe or party is sincere about anything except his own interests, and that includes Democrats.

If you want to get a good view of what Democrats do to education, get a look at the California Public Schools; the Democrats have been in charge of the State Legislature, both Houses since 1990 and most of the State Offices since 1998. Schwarzenegger went in to the Governor's office at the end of 2003.

California spends nearly $9,500.00 per public school student and the results suck. Big Corporations are leaving California, especially Los Angeles, because the population is basically illiterate. This was a subject in the Los Angeles Daily News in the Summer of 2003.

Frankly, I think ALL education needs to be privatized. ALL. From preschool to the PhD.

Get Big Brother out of it.
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#21 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 01:53 AM
 
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Growing a tanget I suppose, but I was a college student when Schwarzenegger took office.

Things changed for us college students immediately, and for the worse.

Funding for the colleges was dramatically reduced, and so classes were cut big time, and fees increased big time.

I was very lucky to have been able to keep all the classes I wanted that semester, as every other student I knew had one or more of their classes cancled, and/or their class was suddenly bombared with students trying to get in, because of other classes cancelled. The very first day of school that semester, my dd had the flu, and thank goodness my dh was already taking vacation time that week---he had just left the ship. If I hadn't been able to attend class, in person that first day, I would have lost every single class, to students that actually showed up, even if I'd called the professors to explain the situation. Too bad, so sad. Too many classes cut, it's now first come, first serve, even if you were signed up.

People that were going to finish that semester, or the following, many of them suddenly found out that it just wasn't going to happen. Not enough money, so not enough classes. This cost the students not only the increase in tuition, but also, just having to be in school an extra semester, or year, or year and a half to finish up, instead of finishing when they had planned. That's that much time they could be in the workforce.
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#22 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 02:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by umbrella
People that were going to finish that semester, or the following, many of them suddenly found out that it just wasn't going to happen. Not enough money, so not enough classes. This cost the students not only the increase in tuition, but also, just having to be in school an extra semester, or year, or year and a half to finish up, instead of finishing when they had planned. That's that much time they could be in the workforce.
That is a very old story...this happened under Brown when I was in college, and later under Wilson/Davis, when I returned to graduate school.

There is plenty of money.

Did you know that all public education in CA was FREE until 1966 when Reagan took over?? I mean K- PhD! Anyone who was a CA resident, applied themselves, and qualified for entry could get a free college education in CA. If you lived in the dorms you paid for it and I think you paid for your books. That was part of the protesting that was going on in SF and UCB and UCLA at the time. Everyone remembers the war protests, but students were angry about being charged fees for classes also.
Their parents had been paying taxes for years to send them to college.
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#23 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 02:04 AM
 
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Schwarzenegger as governor, has made it near impossible now for homeschoolers to send their children to community college as young teens.

I do not appreciate this as my older three children went to community college as young as 13, and I have a 13 yr old now and I may have to finagle/work/tweek the system alittle.

The system wants to keep the 12-18 crowd in high school and middle school.
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#24 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 02:08 AM
 
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This cost the students not only the increase in tuition, but also, just having to be in school an extra semester, or year, or year and a half to finish up, instead of finishing when they had planned.
This is actually a trend that has been going on for years.

I returned to my education department to get advice on renewing my teaching credential, and I was told, quite curtly, that no one was going to help me since there was no funding for it -?

WTF?

No one will sit down with me for 15 minutes and help me fill out a form?

Most of these professors are Democrats. Why won't they help another teacher?
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#25 of 50 Old 05-31-2005, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice
I do not think any politician of any stripe or party is sincere about anything except his own interests, and that includes Democrats.

Exactly....

especially when the vast majority of politicians DO NOT send their own children to public schools.
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#26 of 50 Old 06-01-2005, 04:58 AM
 
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In general Ca schools suck and a large portion of the non-hispanic population appears to be barely literate (if you speak two languages you get extra points by me!) but I thought they spent a lot less, and some claim that is the problem. Wouldn't equalizing the local property taxes (which prop 13 got rid much of ) by pooling them and then parceling them out help? Or would the bureacracy eat up too much or rest away to much local control. There was a huge lawsuit here in CA over unequal school conditions brought by students, finally the state government had to shell out. If I remember right Gray Davis fought them tooth and nail.
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#27 of 50 Old 06-01-2005, 10:18 PM
 
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Prop 13 is nothing more than a convenient excuse. There's plenty of money to educate people - just not enough to educate people and support a bloated bureaucracy.

I am so tired of hearing middle class white people blame Prop 13 for everything. In college, the professors called everything that was broken a Prop 13-whatever - prop 13 table, prop 13 window, prop 13 projector. Never occured to them to hold a freakin bake sale and buy a new whatever it was. Just whine, whine, whine about how someone should it do it for them.

The sickness and rot here in California is so bad - no one will even *pick up the trash,* because dammit they pay taxes.
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#28 of 50 Old 06-02-2005, 01:24 AM
 
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California spends nearly $9,500.00 per public school student and the results suck. Big Corporations are leaving California, especially Los Angeles, because the population is basically illiterate. This was a subject in the Los Angeles Daily News in the Summer of 2003.
I am sorry applejuice but I have to disagree with this statement. The reason business is leaving California is because California is not business friendly. The California government tries to make businesses pick of the tab for services that the state thinks the public should have, but is not willing to pay for.

Just before leaving office Davis signed a bill requiring business to PROVIDE AND PAY FOR health insurance for all employees. Business with x amount of employees are required to pay the benefits for defendants as well.

http://www.health-access.org/expandi...nst_repeal.htm

Quote:
Starting in 2006, the bill gradually builds upon our current health system, by which over 18 million Californians get health coverage through their employer.


Employers with 50 or more workers would have the choice of buying coverage for those workers directly, or paying into a statewide buying pool that would work to get employers the lowest rates possible. Employers with 200 or more workers would also be required to provide family coverage for its workers.
Workers of these employers of 50 or more would be guaranteed basic health benefits, comparable to the standard HMO package that includes preventative care, hospital care, and prescription drugs, and paying no more than 20% of the monthly premiums-or for low-income workers, not more than 5% of their income
Add this to the sky rocking real-estate, high cost of living, and higher than average minimum wage requirements and business are leaving the state in droves. Employees are going to be lucky to have jobs, not to worry about forced health care. No wonder the public is leaving the state as fast as they can.
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#29 of 50 Old 06-02-2005, 01:49 AM
 
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Ok, I have a few things to say about California schools.

I have always been lucky enough to have my children to go good schools. When my oldest was in K I did not like the location of the school she was supposed to attend, (poor area, graffiti on the playground, ect.) so I had her transferred to another school district in a better area of town. Sure I had to drive her 20 minutes to school and back every day but at least I wasn't afraid to leave her at school. Towards the end of 1st grade we moved and there was a good school in walking distance. She went there for the remainder of 1st and 2nd grade. In 3rd grade we lived in a crappy school district, (we had to live with my parents temporarily and she attended the same school I did.) Her teacher being a first year teacher and recognizing the fact that dd was advanced gave her extra work to keep her stimulated and not let her fall behind. In 4th and 5th grades she went to a great school in Lake County California. I myself was upset with Davis for cutting the GATE program but in general my children (dd#2 was in K there) learned.

I had always thought California had some of the worse schools in the nation. I figured they were just one step above Miss.(no offense to anyone who lives there but I believe they actually have the worse schools in the nation.) I was always complaining about funds being cut to this program or that. The fact that we had to do fund raisers all the time to get money and the fact that I keep hearing on the news how some schools in the bay area were cutting sports and music programs because of lack of money. But my children were LEARNING something.

We moved to Oregon this past October. Because of housing prices we had to leave the state to by a house large enough for our growing family. And the learning has stopped. I spent the entire year fighting with the school just to give my oldest more challenging math work. They just keep telling me next year she will be doing blah blah. But what about THIS year?? Next year we will do this, next year we will do that. We will test her to see where she falls blah blah blah. They never followed through with anything they said they were going to do. (of course I don’t know about next year.) After I got tired of fighting with them and realized they were just stringing me along I took a long hard look at my 1st grader. She didn’t learn a THING this year. Basically she spent the whole year working on her reading. That is about it. Arguing with the school gets me no where. They just become hostile and sarcastic. I simply asked questions about their intentions, what improvements they planed to make, gave suggestions and I was told how to switch schools if i liked.

So I have decided to home school next year. I gave my daughter the sample assessment tests that were online for math. Not only did she exceed grade level standards in math for 7th grade, she exceeded them for 8th grade. This is the student they keep in "advanced" 6th grade math and refused to give her extra work to keep her interested. She was bored all year and told me she felt she was repeating the 5th grade. Of course they don’t care about that. She is not an ESL student. She is already above average so improving her education will not bring up their test scores. The only thing they care about is improving test scores. I have totally had it with this school district. Apparently from people I have been talking to this is problem all over Oregon. I have never seen, heard of, or run into so many people who home school in my life!!!

So while you condemn the schools in California and wish for something better, just remember that the grass is always greener on the other side. Sometimes when you hop that fence you realize it was better where you were to begin with.
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#30 of 50 Old 06-03-2005, 10:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UUMom
Real Estate tax is why a Weston MA elementary school can have field hockey & chemistry labs, and a Roxbury MA elementary school has peeling lead paint and no school library. And that's in a 'liberal 'state with a Kennedy as a Senator. You do the math.

Bingo!

Lola , loving my DH, Mama to & we &
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