Mothering Forum banner

Let's Talk Math.

28K views 76 replies 51 participants last post by  vancouverlori 
#1 ·
Every few weeks, someone will post a question on this forum about choosing a math curriculum or how to "do math" if you're unschooling. We seem to agonize over math curricula as much as our decisions to home edcuate at all! I've seen things like "I'm not sleeping at night over this, what if I was wrong?" and "I felt like I was getting married when I finally commited to a math program." I think it's high time that we had a sticky on the subject! If you're using a particular program or have experience with one, please post the following here:

1. Title your post with the name of the program.

2. What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)

4. Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulatives? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom managment? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much?

5. Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?

7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses? Why?
 
See less See more
#28 ·
We've now finished Level B and are about 10 lessons into Level C.

Most recent additions in blue

DD1 is done with RS. We progrossed about a third of the way through Level C (just far enough to ease the transfer to Singapore). It's a great program, but DD1 needs more control and was frustrated with everything being teacher led. I'm happy with started with RS rather than Singapore, but now that she has the basics down, I'm confident she's not missing out on anything significant. I'm still considering using RS Geometry when the time comes.

Additions are in red.

There is a Yahoo! group called RightStart. It's not horribly busy, but the quality of discussion tends to be high.

2. What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)
DD1 just turned 4. We are about halfway through Level B (1st Grade). We'd started in Level A about a year ago, but it didn't move quickly enough for her. We did about 20 lessons in B not long after that, then she lost interest (my being very busy with her sister probably had something to do with this). We picked it up again in November, and we average 5 or 6 lessons per week. She loves this program.

It didn't require much writing (we could have completed it without her writing anything).

Well, she loved it until we started subtraction. She wanted it all laid out, now. She can work through Singapore at her own pace. While it would be possible to compact RS (I did a bit), it's more work than it was worth to me. Besides, she was ready for a format change.

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)
She's mathematically oriented and picks up new concepts quickly, but she is more gifted with language. I think she's a both a visual and auditory learner... I'm often confounded by what she comes up with.

She may be more mathematically oriented than I thought. She whizzed through a multi-day series of lessons leading up to 4-digit addition on paper in two days. In fact, the first worksheet problem she did was on paper rather than with the abacus. (The program is designed so that children intuit how to do it on paper on their own.)

I'm pretty sure she's visual.

4. Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulatives? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom managment? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much?

The program is visually oriented. Children are actively discouraged from counting at all and are taugth instead to see objects in groups of 5's.

The primary manipulative in the early years is the abacus, which is a fantastic tool for DD1. She can "see" the abacus in her head. The abacus is two sided: the first side values all beads at 1, the other is used once the child understands place value (VERY early on) and has beads valued, 1, 10, 100, 1000. I'm not sure subtraction is formally introduced in Level B (though there are plenty of ___ + 4= 10 problems), the reasoning being to have the child master one dominant concept completely before moving on, but DD1 is already adding 4 digit numbers, completely understands the concept of trading, has learned her math facts through 15, skip counts by 2's, 5's, 10's. We're not there yet, but the child is also taught to add 2 digit numbers mentally. The program is big on the comprehension of underlying mathematical principles -- you KNOW when your child has hit a wall, the lessons are structured so there's no faking understanding.

This program is designed for homeschoolers, though there is a classroom version. Worksheets in the early years are few and far between; concepts are reinforced either through use during the lessons or elaboration. Some concepts are built upon steadily, while others, like basic geometry, are introduced more sporadically.

There is little preparation, other than gathering materials; however, the parent is heavily involved with the lessons. Lessons are more or less scripted (which is nice because precise use of terminology is important), though the child is expected to think her way through problems rather than just be shown how to do it.

Subtraction is introduced, but in a cursory manner and mastery is not expected. It is dealt with in Level C. The only problem DD1 had in the entire course was with the introduction of subtraction as "counting up" rather than "taking away." I think she had a pretty firm idea of what subtraction was already. I merely taught her how to "count" up change and moved on.

5. Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?

I'd evaluated a number of programs (MUS, Saxon, Singapore) and simply fell in love with Right Start. I love how I can see the foundations being laid for advanced concepts in the Level A and B manuals. I love the emphasis on mental math and comprehension. The manipulative make complete sense to me (I've always hated cuisinair rods).

The woman behind RightStart has a PhD in mathmatics education and degree in engineering and is a former Montessori teacher. The program itself is heavily Asian influenced in both content and teaching style.

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?

See above.


7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses? Why?

We'll be sticking with Right Start for as long as possible. At the pace Dr. Cotter seems to be writing the middle grade manuals (Geometry still isn't finished), we may have to change then.

I feel just as strongly now.

DD1 doesn't feel as strongly as I.
 
#29 ·
Disclaimer: we use only the text for Saxon, not the extra practice sheets, tests and such.

2. What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)
She is 12 and at about a 6th grade level in math. That didn't have an influence above choosing *which* Saxon text to use.

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)
Kelsey is my math conundrum. She is extremely auditory, seeing the problems doesn't help a whole lot she needs them verbally explained to her. She doesn't really like manipulative's either and needs constant reinforcement or she'll forget. WE chose Saxon because of the short lessons with plenty of review of previous concepts. Also because it was easy for me to read the lessons to her and help explain concepts verbally.

4. Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulative's? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom management? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much? There are no manipulative's as part of the program, although I do use some. DD's not fond of them though so not so much. For us it requires involvement and guidance, but that's because of how DD learns. I could see a child doing it independently without much of a problem. There is a lot of repetition, but that is good for DD. Saxon is *spiral* which is a necessity for DD.

5. Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?
I first looked at it because it was highly recommended on another board but I chose it because it suited my DD.

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?
Like: I like the short lesson and the review/repetitions. DD likes the way it flows. I like that I can get the texts used for cheap

Dislike: there are alot of problems in a lesson, probably 10-15 for the new concept and 25 for review. I think that's to many (as does DD!) so I pick and choose about 20 total and vary the review so she sees old concepts at least once a week.

7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses? Why?
We will use Saxon at least through 8/7, maybe algebra 1/2. After that I've heard it's not as good so we may have to re-evaluate. I'm thinking maybe Jacobs math?
 
#30 ·
2. What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)
DS is just turned 7, about a first grade level I think. No it didn't.

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)
DS is very independent and loves numbers. He resists being taught and is very visual.

4. Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulative's? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom management? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much?
We have the Horizons K workbooks. Lots of bright, happy looking pages using different ways to show a concept. They are also spiral and review a lot. it does require a good bit of parental involvement, but at his age I don't think that's a bad thing.

5. Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?
OK, this is going to sound lame but I picked it because of how the workbooks looked
At this point we are using the workbook mainly as fun. DS likes colorful pages with fun decorations which the Horizons has at this level. I also chose it because a friend with a child a lot like him used it and liked it.

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?
Like: short lessons with fun graphics, nice introduction and coverage of concepts.
Dislike: there are a lot of lessons!

7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses? Why?
I'm struggling with this right now. DS likes Horizons, I like Horizons but we aren't really *doing* the Horizons KWIM? It sits on the shelf a lot! I'm thinking maybe I'll just skip curriculum next year and buy a copy of Family Math
 
#31 ·
What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)

Dd is 9yrs and she's in workbook 2B. We don't usually use the textbook unless necessary. We also occasionally supplement with "Challenging Word Problems" workbook (primary 2) from Singapore.

We needed something that got to the point without a lot of busy work.

We started out homeschooling last year with her school text (SRA--the teachers have special committees that spend months evaluating and deciding on the school text) and it only lasted a month or less before we were fed up with the busywork, the confusion of jumping around and throwing out concepts with no explanation, etc. Singapore was a huge relief.

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)

Dd likes math but it seemed the more workload/busywork she had, the less she enjoyed it, thus the less she would learn. Singapore is perfect for her in that it gets straight to the point with short lessons. If she got stuck on a concept (ie: borrowing) we simply would close the book for a while (a week or whatever) and practice the concept in a blank tablet for a while until she was ready to move on.

Dd is creative-minded, she loves art and creating things. I guess I would say she is visual (though the pictures in Singapore don't help her much). She doesn't do well with a lot of instruction. She likes to get to the point, get it done, then move on to more artistic endeavors
. She has good logic and understanding of math but she does not enjoy spending a lot of time on it.

4. Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulatives? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom managment? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much?

Singapore assumes that you will use manipulatives on your own as necessary. We used manipulatives more last year (money, tangrams, etc.), but now she usually sees them as a waste of time and can grasp a concept w/o them.

There is little to no preparation necessary. No busywork. Just the concepts presented in short easy-to-understand form. The textbook has more visuals and the concepts are more broken-down and explanatory.

IMO Singapore is excellent for home educators. I would love to see the schools use it too though because it is an excellent no-nonsense program.

5. Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?

It was recommended both by homeschoolers here and irl. The price is beyond cheap ($7 per book, $14 for the set if you buy the text and workbook, and assumes 2 sets per year...$28!!).

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?
The only thing I don't like is that the book levels don't match up with traditional grade levels. Books 2A/2B match the same work the 3rd graders are doing in our neighborhood school (which is considered an advanced school). Not a big deal but it would be nice to line it up.


7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses? Why?


We will continue with Singapore until dd goes back to school (by choice). I would love to see her school use Singapore. Their current SRA text pales in comparison.
 
#32 ·
In my Math Concepts class, my professor is BIG on relating other subjects to math. Earlier this week she read to us Caps for Sale and we discussed how it could be used to teach math. Then we were given an article called "Quality Literature as a Springboard for Problem Solving ." I hope you can access the pdf.

I thought it was a great article and think I might not have had problems with math while I was homeschooling if my mom had knowsn about it. We're a big reader family
But we didn't, and my early math knowledge came from playing the Math-It game.
 
#33 ·
What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)

>>>We use Singapore U.S. edition. Dd is 9 and is in the 3rd grade. We started her off with Singapore Early Bird.

What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)

>>>>>She is an auditory and kinesthectic learner. Type A perfectionist. She is "problem solving oriented".

Describe your math program: does it use a lot of manipulatives? Rely on visual indicators? Is it compatible with other programs? Does it require a great deal of parental preparation/intervention/active guidance? Do you think that the program is suited to home educators, or is there a heavy focus on busy work and classroom managment? What about repetition, is there enough? Too much?

>>>>Singapore does not recommend a lot of manipulatives, though we used them as needed until dd said they were too babyish. She prefers her fingers.>>>Not too much. Less than more. At the time,(K), from my comparisons, there weren't any that were compatible. Of course you can only research for so long!>>> DD would do half of a workbook in one day with/out me knowing. She loved it that much. But, when I realized that I couldn't catch up with correcting her, I had to put a limit on how much she did a day(at least till I caught up w/her). IN hindsight, it was a mistake to let her get so ahead of me. We ended up going over a lot of concepts.>>> I do believe some guidance and participation is required. The earlier books were more classromm focused. Now they are not.>>> There is practically no busy work. At the level she is in now, I think she needs more repitition. Earlier no.

Why did you decide to use this particular program? Was it to suit your individual child, or because it was recommended by a book/another homeschooler/a post here?

>>>>We chose this program because of the mental math and problem solving it offers-even right from the beginning. My dh has a math degree, and he said it was very sound, he liked how each concept built upon each other. We tried it for K, and she loved it. That was important-that it was fun! We both felt no need to change.

What do you like/dislike about the program?

>>>>> I love the problem solving! Math was never my thing, and so many times, I would be like,"wow! That makes so much sense to teach it this or that way!). Dh thinks they are brilliant at adding concepts. Dd is a brilliant problem solver, and it is challenging to her, I like that the problem solving started early,so it was natural for her. I also like that there isn't too much repitition or timing. Though now that she is at the end of level 3A, I think she needs more practice-afterall, she is doing long-division. The higher the program goes, the faster paced it is. I just ordered the Intensive Practice for Level 3A...before I move her onto 3B.

Will we keep going with Singapore?>>>>> I think we will through 4th grade.

Will I use it with ds? No clue!! He doesn't seem to be as much of a problem solver like dd was from an early age on.

HTH!

mp

ETA: A change of typos and spelling errors!
 
#34 ·
Just a couple more resources from another thread:

The Painless series
(Painless Geometry, Painless Fractions, etc.) from Barron's.
The approach is structured, but fun. This one isn't Waldorf, but it is holistically-inspired and can easily be made Waldorfy by adding more movement and connections. My Harry Potter fanatic loves this series. I don't know why I don't hear more homeschoolers talk about this excellent, inexpensive series.

Math Made Meaningful
(This we plan to start next year as I've seen some great reviews the Waldorf lists.) From the 6th Grade - "The Year for Strengthening Skills. While there are new topics to be introduced in sixth grade math, much of the year is an essential review, or a furthering of material introduced in earlier years. The challenge is to weave in the review in such a way that there is always something new. Therefore each lesson has something new, each worksheet includes several review problems. The goal is for the students to enter seventh grade feeling that division, fractions, and decimals are all easy, and for them to be excited about learning math."

and I just have to send you to this website for ideas:

Living Math by Julie Brennan
http://www.livingmath.net/

Lucie
 
#36 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by UUMom
Could Neopoints be considered a math program?

I hope so




I am reading the thread to help choose a program for 5 y/o ds who loves math. We are currently using the Miquon orange book for him.

Dd used Miquon but now says she disliked it. She likes Developmental Math. It proceeds with the right amount of repetition and consistency. She disliked the ever changing pages in Miquon.
 
#38 ·
Has anyone used "Noble Knights of Knowledge" from livelylessons.com ?

I'm going to pick it up one of these days... (my kids are only *almost* 5 & 7, and so far we've just 'lived' math, but this game looks really cool)
 
#40 ·
I have 2 dd 7 and 5 and we also LOVE Shiller math. After meeting Larry Shiller at a convention and seeing the program and his enthusiasm and great math brain, I was hooked. My daughters love doing math, it's their favorite subject.

Montessori is great because it's active, the have songs to stimulate better memorization and they introduce "hard" math concepts in a simple way early on.

The only downside is their website can be difficult to manage. This is important because you get free activity downloads. So, I can print out exercises as many times as I want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catgirl View Post
1) Shiller MAth

2) Age: 6.9

3) He has a good sense of math (by 5 was saying stuff like, 10 hundred is 1000, so 20 hundred is 2000, etc. etc.). He is very physical and "hands on". He is also a very visual learner, and likes to play and experiment. Very self-directed.

I liked that Shiller had lots of manipulatives, and that it is Montessori based, exploratory and fun. I also liked that they introduce fairly advanced concepts early on, with the manipulatives, so it's concrete and easy to understand. FOr example, addition with exchange, and you actually take your unit cubes and exchange ten of them for a ten rod. It's very well thought out, number cards are color-coordinated with manipulatives and so on. Also, they do cool stuff like estimation and probability early - ds loved this. It's scripted, which makes us laugh, but would be helpful for the math-phobic.

I first saw it at a convention and loved it. It seemd perfect for ds and it is!

We just finished the first kit (supposedly three years worth but he loves math and catches on very fast). I did continue to research other methods but it was clear to me that this was the best for us (and that ds had learned very thoroughly from it) and I just purchased the second kit - by the end of these three books (again, supposedly three years worth) you've covered everything up to the end of 6th grade. I expect these will take us a lot longer!

I LOVE SHiller and recommend it very highly. Not that many people seem to know about it but all those I know who use it, love it.
 
#42 ·
My son Jason (now 25) unschooled from the beginning (we were lucky to discover John Holt's books early on).

Jason always loved playing with numbers. Although he was "late" in some areas such as walking and reading, he had a huge vocabulary by 18 months, understood the concept of infinity at 2, and taught himself squares and square roots at 3 . But in spite of all this, I still worried about not using a curriculum, especially for math.

When he was 7, he asked for a math book as his special holiday gift that year (we had read John Holt's glowing review of Harold Jacobs' book Mathematics: A Human Endeavor, in Growing Without Schooling). I thought "I must be doing something right" if a 7-year-old wants a math book for Christmas!

The book proved to be as wonderful as John Holt had said, and we both enjoyed it a lot. But a couple of months later, I noticed that Jason hadn't looked at it for a while. I decided to offer to go over a chapter per week with him. Fortunately, I was extra busy that day and didn't get around to asking him about this. That evening, here comes Jason, book in hand, saying "Let's play math." I got chills, thinking, "Whew, that was a close one." Had I made my offer, he probably would have accepted it, and even learned from it, but where would the concept of math as play have gone?

Now at 25, he can do just about anything mathematical in his head, unlike me. I can do math, having memorized formulas, but always on paper, and I often don't understand the concepts involved. Jason can not only do the math easily but really understands the whole process. If he happens to need a new mathematical tool, he can easily learn it. He needed to know about sines and cosines when he converted paintings from my illustrator into graphics for my publisher, for my children's book A Gift for Baby. He learned it quickly and easily from the Internet. I could only look back and remember how much time I spent memorizing calculus formulas, with no idea what was going on, and with no real-world application.

Jason has learned everything through play, and has the same love of learning he was born with. I feel so indebted to John Holt. But my best teacher has always been my son. For parents who went to school, unschooling can be a challenge but it is also our best opportunity to learn to trust our children's natural love of learning.

Jan
 
#44 ·
2. What level/age is your child? Did that influence your decision to use this particular program (or not to use another?)
5 1/2 and 3 (nearly 4), so First grade and K4

3. What sort of learning style does your child have? Are we talking about a mathematically-oriented child? A visual learner? Kinesthetic? (A brief description will help other parents who may have a similar type of child to make this decision.)
5 year old is visual with some kinesthetic leanings, 3 year old is very kinesthetic

4.Uses manipulatives and games. VERY suited to home educators in its approach. Work is incremental, but increments are not too tiny,and the aproach spirals. It is also very colorful and more "fun" in its appraoch than saxon or even the"regular" Singapore Math.

5. We went on personal reccomendations to narrow the field, narrowed it some more by reading various reviews, then looked u sample pages and had the children use the sample pages we printed out. This is the one they loved.

6. What do you like/dislike about the program?

I like the spiralling aproach, the not too small increments, the bright colours, and the mutisensory apprach. I also like the solid math behind it; not some unproven method or faddy.

7. Will you/would you continue at different levels, or do you think that another program might be better suited to your child as s/he progresses?
Yes
Why? Solid academically, not dumbed down, yet designed so that time can be taken if needed by providing extra practice books for review if needed, and child engaging. I also love the CD that goes with the programme, Rainbow Rock, and the games the childrenplay with it. The programme touches on all styles of learning, to really help engage just about any child, and making math fun for mine. I also like that the price of the curriculum is excellent value as we are on a budget.
 
#49 ·
Thanks!

I took a look, but I'm trying to figure out what they like so much in these books that's different from others. From just looking there, they seemed to be the same as other colorful primary math books I've seen, but with cuter pictures. Is it the pictures? Oh - wait - I clicked on the section 2 part and found the activity pages. I see why they could be fun for those who enjoy workbooks. I don't think my son would have liked them at all, but I can see where a little girl who likes writing in workbooks could have fun with them. I probably would have liked them when I was little.


<<Section 1 - Sample pages from Course books>>
Section 2 - Sample pages from Practice books>>

- Lillian
 
#50 ·
Actually, the drawings are the only things DD HATES about those books - she can't stand The Furries, so she draws angrily all over them
After book 3B there will be no more furries I think

The other books the children tried did not explain the process well at all! They briefly said what it was supposed to happen and then the book threw hundreds of drills at them! They did not actually try to expalin the process!

What you actually can't see in those samples is the gradual and interesting way the explanations happen. These are also the FIRST math books that explain WHY things are how they are. My children HATE to memorize and to be told it is so because it is - that' what they experienced in the other books. Also, MPH have fun games and hands on activities suggested after every handful of pages.

It has really been a life saver for us and I am so happy my daughter actually enjoys Math now!
 
#51 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by polihaupt View Post
What you actually can't see in those samples is the gradual and interesting way the explanations happen. These are also the FIRST math books that explain WHY things are how they are.
Ah! Thanks - that explains a lot. I guess they should show one of those progressions in their samples. I did wonder what was in between the samples they showed.
Lillian
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top